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Paralyzed by indecision.

150K views 583 replies 98 participants last post by  weightlifter 
#1 ·
Since going into details would consume and ungodly amount of time and energy let me just ask the following;

How do I combat an Emotional Affair?

How do I get her to admit to rug sweeping?

How do I combat the situation with the affair underground?

How do I get her to realize the damage that she has done?

Am I willing to kill the relationship between us? - Yes

Do I want to? - No

Yes, Kids are involved.

No, It has not gone Physical, but I cannot disprove phone sexting.

I am the bread winner.

She refuses to go transparent at all.

She insists he no longer feels in love with her nor her with him. (Details on this if asked can be provided)

She still has him as a FB Friend, but a hidden one and has removed me from her list.

When I asked to see her phone I got derailed by lame excuses, one such as she needs to trust me (WTF?) and was swiftly distracted by her engaging in physical intimacy, a classic maneuver.

After utilizing several tactics have caught her telling lies about what they talked about or what she has told him about what has happened around here since I threatened to kick her out. Hint, Liars cannot re-tell stories based on lies due to no foundation for the memory to latch onto nor can she tell the story backwards. When tasked by this she gets completely flustered and doesn't remember.

And the classic line, "I need to find myself" .

I need some advice from some seasoned veterans, please fire away, hold nothing back. And if by chance there are any ladies lurking, let me know from a woman's perspective.
 
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#255 ·
First let me say how much I appreciate this forum and the knowledge I have been able to obtain since I have been here, my only regret is that I didn't find it sooner as it would have been extremely helpful.

As Ruby and Azteca said I'll know when I am ready. Thanks to the support, however gruff or otherwise, I have received from here has certainly provided me with some much needed guidance.

My Children and I are victims of domestic abuse and violence.

I was emotionally and physically abused

My son was abused in most ways.

My wife needs to find out how to make herself happy, while not at the expense of others.

I was pushed, but had help in pushing back.

I was able to defeat her lies and recognize them more easily when they occurred.

A year ago I would have dismissed her behavior as just a woman letting her expression get the better of her and whatever other label society would use for her outbursts.

but now.

If it can't change, then I'll escape it and recognize what is was in hindsight, a severely toxic marriage.
 
#260 ·
MMSLP is a great piece for stater. I was beta to the core at first, I did all the book suggested, but everytime my wife showered me with attention, appreciation and love, I just revert back to being beta again. Old habits just die hard. It took me 17 months and many failures to finally able to consistently be a red pill taker. Good luck and welcome to red pill world.
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#270 ·
The last couple of months have been interesting to say the least. I got in contact with my mother who resides in Australia and told her what was happening. Simply put she merely asked what I needed, money for a retainer fee. I asked a friend from additional assistance and got it as well. I asked her Father and step-mother for help in getting the kids off to school in the morning and they supported this request.

Soon after the wife shows me her texts between her and the Cali POSOM, which clearly indicated that the relationship cooled off and died, began a stretch of her acting inappropriate and me challenger her to change her behavior. This went on for a while and although I was assertive and firm I was reasonable and respectful, at least at first, when I brought my complaints to the table. The result was her wanting a separation, I agreed but made it a point that once gone she stays gone and I Divorce full bore.

Of course this got her to cool her head, if only for a moment. Since then I caught her in so many lies it isn't even funny. She even started sexting 2 guys and calling at least one of them. Armed with the tools that I learned from this place and using a VAR in strategic places I was able to get the evidence and confront. Like always she was surprised, then aggressive about who this guy was, and then relented when I refused to giver her phone back, which was locked btw. Anyway, I got her to unlock it, saw the pics, demanded she call him and she proceeded to do so, he also responded to my messages about alerting his girlfriend about his activities. His response was that essentially I was a fVck up and can't keep her happy. I suppose he is right as I am not a clown.

Talking with her about it, which it all happened yesterday, she says she has a sense of resentment towards me with the reason being that since she said she wanted out, due to another man being present, that I refuse to release the evidence and proclaimed that I will kick her out and take the children due to her neglectful behavior and am blackmailing her in staying!!!? Nevermind the months and years prior of emotional abuse, neglect and domestic violence, which must never had happened.

And for the blackmail, I gave her back the recording and she never deleted it, I took it back soon after, I offered to pay attention to all the area's she claimed she felt empty in, to help her obtain a career, get physically fit. How is this blackmail?

Unlike last time when I caught her in an online thingy I shed not one tear, blubbered or otherwise bit of weakness. Supposedly she will have ready for me total access of everything, including her phone, on a moments notice. She has also tried to reestablish some form of control and found it irritating that I have not budged.

The surprise though is that I am going to proceed anyway without warning, Monday hopefully. If The money I get comes thru I should be all set and the Lawyer firm I wish to use is one of the best in New England. To finally have the freedom of peace of mind is exhilarating. My only concern is when, not if, but when she more than likely rubs in a new relationship in my face if I can handle it.

But I can see the light, and my god is it beautiful.
 
#278 ·
I knew it was coming, last night came home from work, even called to let me know she'll be just a tad late cause she got something to eat on the way, and saw that nothing was available for the children's lunches. Although it was late she wanted to go shopping then rather than in the AM. I made it known that I was concerned it was a BS ploy or at least felt like one as she could have gotten these things earlier in the day while she was out and about.

Of course she reassured me that she wouldn't call or whatever, a claim I immediately dismissed. She asked if I wanted to go with her, an invite I could not accept since the children were sleeping. It is was it is. She leaves and lo and behold she calls and makes sure to remain on the phone the entirety of the trip save for the actual shopping. Immediately after paying for the items she made sure to call right back and stay on the line.

Although I am sure this is simply more hoovering, I must admit that after being shut out for so long and dejected by her lack of effort it did feel good to have my concerns placed first. Regardless, it was only fleeting, can't afford to get sucked back in. I must have one of those Sith Jedi master's as a wife...
 
#283 ·
Ok, she will be served this Friday, I will be taking the day off from work to be there for obvious reasons. Any suggestions?

Talk about nerve racking, she is going to be pissed!!!
 
#286 ·
Yes, if you don't think she'll go off on him too. Have something planned that you guys are doing, like packing stuff up. Stop by Radio Shack today and buy a voice recorder. Have it running when she gets there. It might save you thousands of dollars, depending on what she says and does.
 
#288 ·
If it were me, and she is going to be served during the day, I would speak to the 11yo and ask if they want to be there or not. My concern is that if she is one to fly off the handle (and she is) that your 11yo would be there to not only "witness" it but may also inadvertently wind up in the path of the storm. So even though it might be a nerve-wracking day to be away, it might be safer and better for someone still relatively young to see their mom in such a state.

You--you're an adult and can presumably handle yourself and protect yourself from whatever may occur, even if the damage done in verbal and emotional. A child will not have the same tools and abilities that you do to emotionally "defend themselves."

So have a VAR on you and rolling at all times to protect you from any accusations of domestic violence. Stay a minimum of 10 feet away from her at all times. Have an overnight bag packed "just in case" you need to flee for safety. And check out these two articles on my website: Domestic Violence Safety Plan | AFFAIRCARE and Leaving an Abusive Spouse Checklist | AFFAIRCARE
 
#289 ·
I can understand your point, but it is not I who is leaving. My eldest son has been living at her Fathers since February and will not return home until she is gone due to her behavior, as well as my 11 year old, our eldest together, voicing his displeasure at her actions as well. In short, she is the one who is leaving, not me.
 
#290 ·
Right and I get that. I understand YOU will not be leaving the home. But if she turns extremely violent, and you keep backing away but she keeps swinging or throwing things, or grabs a baseball bat (hey you never know) swinging with intent to hit a homerun, you MAY have to flee... And that would not be the time to be thinking "Gee...should I grab my important papers?" whilest trying to throw together a bag.

What you want is OPTIONS to protect yourself in a worst case scenario. Maybe you can have a bag with one night's worth of clothes and important papers in the closet...and if she gets violent you go to the room, bring your cell, lock yourself into the bedroom, and call for assistance. She can not get TO you to physically harm you, she can not burn your important papers for spite, and you can not get blamed for a trumped up domestic violence charge.

Get it?

When someone is physically abusive, you just can not tell what they may or may not do, and if the choice is "stay in the home" or "get beaten with a bat" I say leave the home and live. :thumbup:
 
#291 ·
No material of merit or value are here anymore, all important paperwork has also been removed. I do not have a cell phone, I have a VAR (which I intend to use) and I have left a hell of a paper trail as well indicating my concerns about her violent outburst and other negative behavior. I am ready for this, I think.

If anyone out there that went thru this can provide a little feedback as to what to expect, which I know is not a standard as everyone is different, still, a hint or heads up on how one reacts when served will be helpful in any manner.

thanks.
 
#292 ·
Well she got the papers today and for all the conflict I prepared myself for and/or anger came a very surprising response. She was numb, shocked and unable to discuss anything about it. Her hands were trembling as she sifted thru each page, only stating in redundant surprise about me seeking child support. I also believe seeing the lawyers watermark, the resident pitbull firm mind you, also hit home.

Now we made small talk but nothing significant.

What next people; Do I keep the pedal to the metal and unleash holy hell or do I use diplomacy? If she is willing to do what is needed to fix this mess what is recommended?!!!!!
 
#294 ·
By Aztecha1986

"You will get to the point where you will demand the kind of marriage that you want. She will either get on board or be left behind."


She gets one shot to partner with you... whether that's marriage or divorce.
 
#299 ·
Oh trust me, I know this is more than likely the inevitable outcome. 2 things though.

1) she was preparing to go out this morning for some reason and after she refused to stick around I told her what as coming. It really didn't sink in and she left for whatever reason she felt she needed to. She comes back, from what I expected as shopping, with 2 kittens!!!! This is confusing and irritating to boot, for many reasons I am sure you can all figure out.

2) Every time I use my computer from home and visit TAM I get all these ad's for dating sites, mostly Russian ones or cougars. Just wanted to throw it out there.
 
#300 ·
yes, the russian dating sights drive me nuts... its like really??
 
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#301 ·
Well she got the papers today and for all the conflict I prepared myself for and/or anger came a very surprising response. She was numb, shocked and unable to discuss anything about it. Her hands were trembling as she sifted thru each page, only stating in redundant surprise about me seeking child support. I also believe seeing the lawyers watermark, the resident pitbull firm mind you, also hit home.
WHEW! I'm glad to hear that you are physically and emotionally safe (for the most part). I would caution you that this relative silence is unlikely to continue. My guess is that she was not expecting it, that she's in shock, and that she is basically just plotting her next move. One does not simply divorce an abuser--they will try to punish you in some way. So, again, I suggest you look over this page on my website to help you prepare: Leaving an Abusive Spouse Checklist | AFFAIRCARE

Here are some additional pages for Men Who Are Abused:
Help for Abused Men: Escaping Domestic Violence by Women or Domestic Partners
Help for Battered Men
MenWeb Battered Men: On-line Resources

The last one is PARTICULARLY helpful!!


What next people; Do I keep the pedal to the metal and unleash holy hell or do I use diplomacy? If she is willing to do what is needed to fix this mess what is recommended?!!!!!
Joker, your wife actually reminds me of my exH a lot. He was diagnosed with Rapid-Cycling Bipolar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder, and he was very physically, emotionally, mentally and verbally abusive. Like your wife, he continued for a couple years to hoover me back into trying to save the marriage and save the family while he ate cake. I was the one who actually filed for divorce after I discovered infidelity during false "R"...and here is what he did.

When he was served, he came to the house and deleted my harddrive (to try to delete any evidence) and he sat in the house screaming and would not leave. I asked him to leave 15 times, and when he still would not I began to say "I am picking up the phone to call 9-1-1. I am dialing 9-1-1. I am asking the police to come," and he tried to take the phone and then tried to strangle me with the phone cord. Then when the police did come, he literally RAGED at me that it was my fault he'd have a police record for domestic violence now...

I changed the locks, and he broke the window to open the lock. He came into the house and took a sledgehammer to the walls. He made threats. And when I would not budge and would not be intimidated, suddenly he became all nice and tried to hoover me in with flowers and promises he was "changed" and he would go do counseling. When I said "Fine, go to counseling and when I see you acting different I'll believe it--until then I think it's just another lie" he got mad. He lied to our friends about me. He lied to our business associates. He destroyed our company. He did everything in his power to make my life a living hell INCLUDING not paying one dime of child support until a judge ordered him to, AND he was made when I asked the judge for retroactive child support to the day the divorce was filed!!

Now, Joker, I don't know if your STBXW will do all that. She may not. She may do all of that and more--we have no way to tell. But what I can say is that I would advise you to mentally prepare for anything. Be prepared for the "worst case scenario" and then if that does not happen, anything else will be something you can handle.

I would guess that she will try every trick in the book to get back in control somehow. I would guess she'll try tears and maybe sex first, then some threats, then suicide, then actual violence. Have your heart ready to recognize that tears or sex are an attempt at control--that threats are just air projected through the larynx and lips and are not necessarily real--that suicide threats should involve an ambulance and hospital treatment (if she's serious) and honestly she's probably just trying to control you with it--and that violence may require you to go to a safe place. But DO NOT RELENT.

Regarding whether to "unleash holy hell or use diplomacy",it is my personal opinion that you should consider WHO YOU ARE and the kind of man you WANT TO BE, and then decide based on who you truly are whether you are the kind of man to unleash holy hell or use diplomacy. Do not decide based on how you've acted in the past, because we already know that guy was weak and under her thumb, right? He's not a good model. And do not decide based on what others tell you, because that is THEM...not YOU. This is about YOU and the man YOU ARE inside and the man you WANT TO BE.

Sooooo....do you want to be the kind of man who unleashes holy hell and has a scorched earth policy? Then cool--do that. Be ruthless, like the guy pursuing The Fugitive. Never give up--never surrender! Do you want to be the kind of man who is diplomatic? Then cool--do that. And when she is an unleashed Tasmanian Devil, you be Humphrey Bogart in Maltese Falcon--cool as a cucumber, but unaffected by her B.S.! You want to be fair? Cool--play it by the numbers, ask for everything you can but no more and no less, and don't budge.

My final words of advice for you would be to find ONE HILL you are willing to die on. In the end, divorce is costly. Even if she were to agree to all your terms (which I HIGHLY doubt she will) it will cost you in some way, and you will lose some things that are precious to you. That is what happens when you have to amputate your spouse! And in real life, many-most things are negotiable in the sense that you may want all the custody, all the house, all the fine china, and all the money, but you would be willing to give her the house and fine china as long as you get THE CUSTODY (as an example). Or you could agree to selling the house and splitting the equity, and selling the fine china and splitting the proceeds--but you will fight tooth and nail and dirty even for the HILL YOU"LL DIE ON. Get it? No one wants to lose their house, but in real life, life goes on whether you live there or some other house--as long as the kids are safe!

There are my thoughts! Hope some are helpful.
 
#303 ·
Well after spending the weekend at her mothers house, for house sitting purposes, she has made the conclusion that this is the right thing to do. Still, when I press her for what I feel is the real reason why (another man) she dismisses it, and still hasn't come clean or gone transparent, and while medicating the new kittens she got, ugh btw, every time I entered the bathroom to see what was going on she would hunch over as if to pet a cat, all the while clutching her phone in her lap to hide it.......It is in some way amusing.

I got the ILYBINILWY crap, and apparently it has been this way for a while. Whatever. Anywho, she suggests going to a mediator vs a lawyer, is this suggestible, I feel like I am in the drivers seat and do not want to relent that control so easily!!!
 
#305 ·
Well, you saved her from the OM. Let her stay there until she got her sh1t in order. Now she no longer has a use for you. She most likely has another OM all lined up and is tired of sneaking around and hiding her phone. With in weeks of moving out, she'll be introducing him to everyone.

You can't be surprised that this day has finally arrived.
 
#310 ·
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Page 41!!! Hopefully sooner.

It's funny you mention that actually as I had the same thought today. When we first met she was beautiful and like most stories here I was intrigued by her features as she had voluptuous curves in all the right places. Of course, 13 years and three children later one tends to gets a little fatigued by gravity so to speak and the external markings of pregnancy never went away, she also never lost the extra baby weight.

But I didn't care, and in fact hardly noticed. Sure I remembered what she looked like but did not flinch at the opportunity to have sex, kiss or anything with her. Hell, even after ready the MMSLP according to Athols whole sex rank idea I soon realized that I definitely outranked her. And the last few weeks certain things have become visible. Listing them is not important, but it is the last step I think in letting her go............ And self destruct.

I must say thank you to this online game OM and send him a thank you card, she was willing to pay any price for her happiness and I am glad that, so far, I will keep the receipt of what she spent to obtain it.
 
#312 ·
He doesn't deserve the hate he has for her.
 
#313 ·
Indeed. It is a deflating feeling and one that makes it even more demoralizing is just how she has met her "Soul Mate", thru a goddamn video game. I fought the good fight, I kept the faith. I should've known too I suppose, you can't free a fish from water.

I just wanted the satisfaction of her telling me I was right the whole time despite the reaction I knew I'd have. She told me some things, about loving him and crap, and yes it was awful to hear but relieving as well cause I knew I wasn't crazy.

So why do I hate her, why can't I let it go, what am I thinking?

Well let me tell you; I hate her for the constant lies, the betrayal, the way she treated her step son, my eldest, the way she abandoned my younger three and neglected their needs mostly for online time with random men she met on the internet, I hate the half-assed picture she sent me when I was lonely in Hawaii compared to the all done up selfies she sent these hop-along-mcfvck-dumplings, I hate how I did all the chores, all the fixing of the house, the car, the little things, the laundry, for balming me for not having a career, for being overweight, for her unhappiness, for challenging her, for getting angry, for all the lost money I made cause we needed it to survive, for all the lost extra money she spent, wasted, all these years, all the lost time away from the family to go to work to make money that SHE said we needed, her lies to her family, her destruction of my personal belongings, her tempers and violence, her breaking household items, he getting me to take her side when I knew she was wrong, her telling these men how bad of a guy I was, her telling me her 8 month term pregnancy was lead to a stillbirth due to an assault from her exboyfriend leading to the baby's death before we got together, then seeing her vigorously attempt to set me up for DV charges, take my children away from me and find out the death of the unborn child story was a lie, that she found a Cocaine-Meth head, pot head and 11 year younger unemployed doofus more appealing than me, I hate how she took my childrens money, especially me eldest sons and his materials, I hate the false R and her mid games in telling me she loves me but only when she needed something, I hate that I lost all my second shift friends from work, the 30K as well and went from a place where I was a respected veteran to a place I simply cannot stand to the point of forcing myself to go to work. I hate how now she cares what her physical appearance matters now compared to when we were together and I got the normal, natural as is Wife, and I didn't give too turds either, I hate that when I was in Hawaii I had not one affair or even thought about it while all the other road job workers rubbed it in about how easy it was, I hate that I worked for nearly 3 months straight out there to stockpile money when I should have taken a least a few days off to enjoy the tropical paradise, I hate how I was the one who called the Churches and food aide's when times were tough when she was still trying to leave me all those years ago and didn't know about it, I hate how I had till recently question if my Daughter was really mine ( Yes she is)..... And lastly, but not finally.......... I hate how much of a fool I was for wanting her to stay with me, for our family, for us.....For feeling like a failure when she rejected me all those months ago. I fought for this!!!!

So yes, one day I will let go of the anger, the hurt, the betrayal, and the memories of the good times that were indivisible from the abundant bad ones. I will be indifferent to her as she deserves, I will forget what she did and move on.................. And that will be the moment I die. Some people do not get the luxury of forgiveness.
 
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