cao428

I have been thinking alot about the counseling my husband and I had last night bringing on to the table the proof I feel that he was having an affair in China by notes he wrote about what he as going to say to his 20 year old Chinese "friend" last year. (see "finally have proof")

He admitted that he INTENDED on "having a relationship" with her, but claims nothing happened because she turned him down and then he "came to his senses" and even claimed it was more of a "father-daughter relationship" (he's 53) (I don't believe a word of it) (he wrote "you have become the wine of my China life" and "see how good you are for me?")

My question is now that I have had some time to think about it and am angry...Isn't the INTENTION to commit infidelity the same as actually doing it? I think it is still a breach of the marriage vows.

I feel he needs to be the one whom should ask for my forgiveness and re-establish the marriage commitment.

Also, shouldn't he be saying to me he's sorry and that it won't happen again? The counselor is saying we are both hurt, because I didn't fulfill all of his wishes while he was away last year (like spending an hour a week on the finances) But I am thinking I am the much more violated one here and how can you compare those two issues. I know she is trying to make it balanced so we can work on the marriage, but I don't think I can even move to the point of working on the marriage until this infidelity issue has some resolve. Am I wrong?

honey28

I think it is just as bad especially if the only thing that stopped it was her rejection. I would feel differently if he thought about doing it and then came to his senses on his own. It would have still been wrong, but different. He "shouldn't" be doing or saying anything right now other than the truth. You don't really want him to say or do something just to pacify you, you want and need to hear the truth. Even if it hurts, even if it's that he no longer wants the marriage. But if you do want your marriage, tell him that and ask him if he wants to and is willing to try to fix what has been broken. The fact that he is in counseling does "say" some of the things that he apparently has been unable to verbalize. Good luck to you, I hope everything works out for the two of you.

justean

talking sexually can be different ,to thinking maybe i could sleep with someone other than my partner.
they are to different concepts.
i believe the act of intention is a close call to actually cheating.
however you might have the intention, but when your actually up close and personal. its not always a possible concept.
for example:- if you feel guilty - you might not b able to.
if you meet person, but you dont have the chemistry.
that person might not be what they expected.

827Aug

To me the intention to cheat is the same as cheating. I guess that's up for debate based on ones background. So, he didn't cheat because she refused him?! Good for her! How do you know she is the only one he approached? What if he saw someone else and you didn't have the proof on that relationship. He's only admitting to the "crime" which you have proof on. That's what goes thru my mind as I struggle with some of my husband's tales. My husband only admits to the "crimes" I have proof on.

I guess you will have to decide how much you want to save your marriage as to how much you're willing to tolerate. My husband says there had to be something broken within our marriage for him to stray. I had felt that something was missing in our marriage for a long time too, but I didn't go have an affair. I'd try counseling longer before making any big decisions. It might be helpful if you and your husband could each have a private session with the counselor.

justean

yeh, typical isnt it.
but i bet my hubby would have got rid of me pretty quick ,if i was the drinker, or if id had an affair or a one night stand.
so for all i put up with, when i have a nasty moment, he cant tolerate it.

cao428

Thanks all for your comments,

Honey28, I agree he needs to tell me the truth and it is bad because he didn't come to his senses BEFORE she "turned him down", which he said afterwards, and I would bet a million dollars he will now deny he said she rejected him. I am so glad this was said in front of the counselor, because she will have heard what I did. What I find he does to cover his tracks, is after he says something incriminating, he will then say he never said that. I just hope she remembers or wrote it down. I tend to think it WAS a sexual relationship, because I know my husband, and especially with all he has been trying to cover up.

It's a catch-22, because I need the truth to rebuild the trust, and he seems to keep lying. He did say he wants the marriage and loves me very much.

We did reconnect this weekend as we went camping with our 15year old daughter and he and I did some fishing together which we haven't done for years and just enjoyed each other. I didn't bring up anything as I am reserving it for the counseling. I have noticed since I caught him on the writing he is much more attentive. (of course he would be) Probably because he knows the chances for losing me are much greater as I caught him and he knows he looks like a jerk because of his deceipt.

Justean, thank you for your input. He did actually say he intended to have a relationship, but didn't admit he was intending sexual, but I know him better and from what I have been reading an emotional affair leads to sexual. He does not feel guilty so that wouldn't stop him, only afterwards he might have but justified his actions by finding fault with me.

827Aug, I agree that the intention is the same, because let's just say she actually DID turn him down...but what if she didn't? And yes, he is only admitting to as little as he has to, which is why I don't believe a word he says, and I said that to him in therapy. He hasn't given me a nano-microscopic centimeter offering of the truth, and has only offered any information at all because of any evidence. Thanks for your advice once again..I know the ultimate decision lies with me and this isn't an easy process.

What IS difficult is I DO love him but it is hard to love a partner that is not honest. I am giving the therapy a shot, but will make it clear that I will not stand for the continued lies, and I need the truth. (he will not give it) I also have a laundry list of things I need from him to feel secure again, including possibly seeing a priest to renew the marital vows, since I feel they have been broken.

vlee

im glad you have a list going of things that you need to feel secure again, and I am also glad that you will onle take the truth...that is strong of you and you are putting your foot down, standing your ground.

i hope the therapy is working...has he been doing the things on your list?

cao428

Thank you vlee for the encouragement, I really appreciate it! I haven't presented my laundry list as yet because our next session is this Wednesday evening.

I am not letting him off this hook, because I love him too much to live with a lie between us, and not prevent it from happening again. I am not doing this to chastize him. (Maybe I need to say that in therapy..maybe he is being so secretive because he is afraid his life will be made hell if he confesses??)

The fact is, if he is honest I will forgive him and move on as long as he is accountable for my healing. I do think he loves me, but he fell out of love with me and became emotionally intimate with a young woman, (who's 15) only 5 years older than our daughter, because he was away for a whole year, and our marriage wasn't the greatest.

At this point my goal is to save the marriage for my family and myself, and if that is not possible, bottom line is to save myself from a lifetime of depression because I settled (whch I will not). My goal in this marriage has always been to be as close to my husband possible and have a wonderful relationship. I think I have had him on a pedistal...BIG MISTAKE.

I think I have learned a lot from this, what my mistakes have been (like being too much of a "mother" (& doormat) for him and not putting my foot down and expecting more from him) But now I am different and moving forward. I will be the woman I know I can be, and a partner. I need to build my self esteem and I am working on that by seeing my own counselor.


My "laundry list" will include the following: (that I got from Dr. Harley's Marriage Builder's website: Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice)

*All contact with her must end. (he has been in contact with her within the last month about business in China supposedly)

*That he takes responsibility to help heal my hurt.

*That he reveals all of the details I ask honestly.

*That he is willing to work on a detailed plan to prevent a reoccurance and do it.

*That he has a detailed plan/commitment to fall in love with me again (this one is hard..I think I need to take responsibility for this one as well and I already know some of what I am going to do)

The following are my own:

*That he ask me to forgive him and promise he will never do this again to me or our family.

*That he try to the best of his ability to find a job where he works close to home. (he works for a month here and there away from home, but COULD find work close to home)



I will let you know how it works out, but yes, I am putting my foot down in a way he understands and will present these requests. In the end, I hope we are experiencing sharing our grandchildren together, and set an example for our children at least that we turned a failing marriage around, and it is possible. I hope!