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Wife decided after ea/pa divorce seperation is the only way help save this pls

48K views 246 replies 17 participants last post by  disbelief 
#1 ·
My W had an EA/PA she took this week for space.OM is staying with his family. we have 5 kids. She finally admitted she feels leaving is the only option will Divorce busting and 7 steps even work at this point. It wil be a couple of months before she leaves the house. Help please.
 
#59 ·
Side note does it mean anything that she just volunteers where she going vs not saying anything even last week? Asked when she would be home because I wanted to go out and she told me her plans? ???
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#61 ·
So we just had a talk about the A and a little of how we our marriage got there. It was a polite conversation she now looks distressed but probably because the reality is she is done, I don't think any method will bring this back unless you with more experience believe otherwise.
The conversation consisted of how she had been unhappy for a long time her body language response to 5 years would be that long. She says that she thought it was just the way it was suppssed to be so she did not speak up all that time. I told her if she only had i would have worked to fix it. She is not over the OM she is not in love with me anymore. I don't think 180's will do here. She wants to find a place and move out she believes the children will not miss her, she doesn't see any other way. Says she wasn't happy for years and I should have seen it, but how do you pick up on these things with a W whose personality is quiet not super loud ROFL there's little to detect. So Really is there a chance to bring her back or do I just face it and hold her off until after the holidays to tell the children.
My last glimmer of hope is burning out.
 
#62 · (Edited)
Well what next anybody got anything. Terrible sleeping night. Is it part of the fog the withdrawal she finally admits her feelings but goes back to all the bad in our marriage that was never. Directly complained about all those years. But yet she gives a real hug her facial expression frustration.
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#63 ·
Well this kind of a journal at the moment her resentment and anger is full force this morning I am again evil all the negatives is it her confronting emotions the fog. I really need some input here. Thanks everyone for your past posts.
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#66 ·
Ther prob is a depression factor at this point youngest is 6 and there is delayed post partum and her high stress job is new within the last 3-4 years and I guess let's add the factors family death within 2 years change in jobs for both of us parenting stress financial stress. He's historically not outgoing not confident I guess maybe low self esteem her parents divorced .....affair ....married and, mother young. Our age 37. Yeah she has had antidepressants before but if I mention it now complete denial. All is good she found her happines in the A.
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#65 ·
Disbelief,

Hold on, it ain't over til it's over. Even then there are possibilities... My brother and his wife divorced after 10 years of marriage, were apart for 5 more, re-married and have been together ongoing 20 more. Life can be quite messy.

Now as far as your children...

Thanks I am quite a mess this morning so was she for that matter I don't want my kids to feel this pain I would bear it all for them. She is the alien rt now and I don't know how to deal with it she recognized I have made changes but she still says seperation is the only way. Kids r young 11 and under. And despite all the negative she is now keeping me informed of schedule changes again without me asking. Is this the ultimate test of friendship love compassion and forgiveness. Please keep advice coming.
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#67 ·
Disbelief - some basic guidelines affair care has been giving you.

BACK OFF - quit talking about the D until she has made a decision. I told my WW I wouldn't discuss D until 6 months minimum and probably a year had passed. Backing off gives her time to think without the explosions of arguments. ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE OPENING MOUTH! Walk out of the room, leave theouse, whatever you have to do. WIth both of your emotions at a boil over point, nothing good can come of it.

Quit focusing on the next day or last conversation, focus on what you want a year from now. Print out the love busters questionaire and ask her to fill it out. Then look for the samll pieces of it you can address alone or immediately. Remember as affaircare told me, it will be full of poisoned black painted comments on you. Don't take them to heart. You cannot change the past, only the future,
 
#68 ·
First off, regarding the possibility of 'mental' disorders' (i.e., depression, borderline personality.) Depression is a natural reaction to high stress situations (and your wife is experiencing a whole lot of them!) This passes over time; the body naturally produces hormones, etc., that eventually will lead to an end to the condition. Only in rare (very rare) instances is a body incapable of producing the correct hormones - in that case (true clinical depression) then additional medicine is necessary.

BUT - and here is the issue: that requires extensive blood hormone level testing - over a period of time. Curiously, most doctors would rather supply a drug to mask the problem - rather than actually testing the patient's blood levels for a week or two to find out if the medicine is actually necessary.

And the problem is that as long as the drug is artificially stimulating the body to produce the necessary chemicals, the body shuts down its own natural ability. Self-perpetuating chemical dependency (known as 'addiction') - great for Pharmaceutical companies, not so great for the patient, who spends life in a drugged out zombie-state.

This goes for borderline personality disorder as well - to see if any such condition exists! ONLY if there is a blood chemical imbalance can this be effectively treated chemically. Otherwise, the condition is a handy means of excusing bad behavior ("...well, I can't help it...I'm sick...let me kick you again!...")

So it is best to stay away from drug cures in order to find solutions - without the correct diagnosis, the patient is essentially turned into the very thing they have been 'diagnosed' as being! (Again - goldmine for Pharmaceutical companies!)

People tend to do things that end bad feelings. The problem is that they tend to take the easiest, and fastest, route. An affair is a solution that is often chosen - without facing the reality of the situation (facing each stress factor, acknowledging it, giving it time to heal, coming to terms with it, etc.) - the faster 'cure' is sought. Some people turn to drugs to end the misery (alcohol, pot, etc...) Regardless: what is done is an attempt to fix the problem - an incorrect way!

Trouble is: the chosen routes create their own NEW set of problems that require ANOTHER solution....and on and on.

Reality is: the situations have to be faced squarely, honestly and diligently, no drugs, no quick fixes, etc., etc..

disbelief: I am giving you this information because of what 8years wrote above:

ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE OPENING MOUTH!

When you can really start thinking about this whole thing - you'll start becoming more and more attractive to your wife, who is casting about looking for ANYTHING that will make some of this easier. When you are the calm spot in the storm, a strong, solid pillar upon which to cling - at that point your wife will begin to gather some hope that things may be OK.

She did not find happiness in her affair! That's why she is thinking about separation! She is looking for solutions - she thinks THAT will solve it! She may have to actually get there to find out that THIS TOO, is not the solution.

But in the meantime: YOU become calmer, more reliable, stronger, more attractive. There is a great deal of hope for your marriage - and much of it stems upon you changing!
 
#69 ·
Thank you for the replies. Just FYI last nights conversation was very cordial and calm. It did have on heightened moment but not even raised voices. I have some alone time the next few days I am going to reflect. I am going to reread things.
The conversation last night in retrospect now that I have let some emotions out on my own today I think maybe allowed her to get some stuff out, I hope. She has not been willing to talk about it at all, the A. I didn't ask any R or A questions to begin with. It began with the housing conversation and I asked what would make her happy and she kind of went on about 10 min. We ended on an OK note she cried a little when saying the A was her happiness. I started to say how that was without kids and so on and she went right on the defensive. She said she is not over the A not over him. I asked if seperation is still the only way she said what other way is there I said to work at it her body language slumped and sighed.
She did get defensive about a D comment I made so I recognize I need to increase that filter in my head and Back off from 90% to 220%. Very hard to do. Her talk of taking care of things is that she can still do the bills make sure we are all set pick up the kids when she is not working. Like it's no biggie just a divorce but still taking care of each other.
I don't know I will heed your advice I keep rereading the 180 list that has helped. Maybe these next few days of her with kids and me alone will help both of us. I do not expect a sudden change.
:confused:

Goal : Back Off More!
Whats best for my kids still makes me happy!
 
#70 ·
I don't like the back off goal myself DB. My situation is hardly different from yours, and here is what I'm doing:

1 I spend a lot of time reading and thinking. Doesn't make me feel good so probably I'll drop this activity.
2 I try to find little ways to connect to my wife that aren't invasive or long.
3 I try to talk to my wife every day for at least 30 minutes now. If it's to personal I just listen and support. I -do- not really discuss us because I find it futile. She is not on the same page as me.
4 any time I get a glimmer of something that sets me off I focus my entire mind on something that makes me happy. Screw those bad memories.
5 I am starting my body revamp ; I might as well look good on the outside, and when all this started that was the first thing I dumped. Mistake.
6 I do not back off. I am just not being invasive and pushing (much dude I know it's hard)
7 I pray but that's just me. Find your own rock.
8 I don't loose hope, ever. Time for that when we are dead. We are men. Even if the relationship dies, that fact will remain.
9 I use baby steps. I'm facing what I did and figuring out how to make it so they don't matter.

Some examples for me ... You can get more time if you think it'll help. Start large and break it down to the smallest part. It's like getting your foot in the door. There is always something so small that you can get it. Try it. Don't pound this because if you don't do something about the situation you are just ****ing with her. Not cool you will pay later. Don't focus on all the bad stuff from the past man, that'll burn you to. Reconnect with your wife, stabilize yourself, and create an environment that is a good spot for you both. And all that stuff about thinking about the OM? Man up and use your own imagination to erase that from your mind. Be 200% positive.

I'm no authority this is all my opinion, but the truth is that when I was single? No woman could say no. There's a line waiting for my wife to go. Why can't I get my **** together? Because I lost my edge ---- my negatives beat me down and I started fixing instead of living. That's my story though. I may fail here with my wife, but if I do it'll be in a blaze of glory that they will make movies like Tristan and Isolde. You see what i am saying? In truth if I fail it'll be because my will and my mind aren't strong enough to be the man she married.

Good luck DB, be strong.
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#72 ·
There may come a time when you should just let her have what she wants. It seems that nothing you do will convince her that staying is an option. She just wants to be a carefree, swinging single again.
 
#73 ·
#75 · (Edited)
Thank you all your posts are very much needed at this time. I have time completly to myself for a couple days for the first time since d day so maybe it will help.

The thing is I thought we were good all this blind sided me now she says and maybe it's the rewriting that things were bad for years. We hardly argued. Discussed issues and resolved them I thought turns out she didn't get over alot of things and never let me know. Can't fix that can only work on what is to come. But it feels like these things need to be addressed to get the anger and resent out.

I choose backing off more because she withdraws when faced with conflict the nicer I am the more she has talked. The only thing I have on my side is time because of how she forsees moving out. I said after the holidays and she needs to find a place.
Time will tell.
 
#80 ·
disbelief - it's entirely likely that you didn't do anything "wrong". She may have had needs you weren't meeting, which she didn't/wouldn't communicate, she may have felt sad/distant/unloved, etc, but you also aren't a mind reader. It's normal to replay your life to try and make sense of it.

My wife, now, tells me that I didn't really do anything wrong, though at the time and through the subsequent number of years she held on to many resentments that sound like what your wife is saying. She let them build up and held on to every negative thing I'd said to her over our 16 years together. When OM came along, she felt validated and attractive and confident in a way she couldn't feel with me.

At least at first. During our second separation, when the luster of OM had worn off and she was truly single... a single mom, trying to date, and manage a household without being propped up constant attention from OM, or from me (during our first reconciliation), she started to realize I wasn't that bad. She started to understand that this whole thing was about her perceptions and that not communicating to me was more her doing than my failings.

But like you, I'm painfully aware of my shortcomings and what I did to contribute to this mess.

The point is that taking or assigning blame for relationship things is a dead end. However, the affair is a deliberate choice to deceive that has totally muddled her thinking. She may never think clearly about you again. She may always hide behind her rewriting of your maritial history. It's dependent on her willingness to be really honest with herself.

You can model that to her, but you can't control how she'll turn out.

That's why you can only work on yourself and your own happiness.
 
#81 ·
Seeking, your points are dead on in my case. She stopped talking about certain things because she did not like how I was responding but never communicated that instead she just stopped. Yes I have/had/will have faults. We all do. She may have checked out a couple years ago or it is the rewriting because we had some good happy times the last couple years.
It almost seems like it's EA/PS coupled by midlife crisis and ILYBNILY
She is slowly dropping remarks taking responsibility for her end of the situation. Thinking back even in a normal disagreement she would have trouble admitting when she was wrong so this would be the extreme.
I will take in all the advice, try to apply it when it fits a scenario. Hopefully she is not closed off to me completly.

Thanks
 
#82 ·
WDG,
Thnx, Yeah I am bad at the just listen thing have improved but needs improvement still. A couple days mostly alone then she works 4 so pretty much won't see her so maybe this will help. However I suspect that she will not change her ming about finding a place.
 
#83 · (Edited)
You know, I think there are a lot of things being said here that are being said "one way" and being heard "another way" so I want to reiterate and maybe re-explain some things.

#1--I can't speak for him, but I believe when 8years said "Back Off" he didn't mean "please be a doormat and let your cheating spouse treat you any way she feels like" because that's a disaster. But so is chasing someone around like a needy puppy constantly picking open a wound! Constantly clinging and wanting to have "relationship talks" is not going to fix this, nor will it make her want to stay in the marriage.

When we say "back off" what we mean is more like this--put yourself in your wife's shoes. You made a gigantic, huge, costly mistake. You got caught and now feel like a heel. Part of the time you cry because you did such an awful thing and now everyone knows; the rest of the time you scream at people because you are defending yourself and don't want to be reminded all the time! She made the choice--that's true--and it is reasonable for her to experience the consequences. But what will catch her eye and be helpful is two things: 1) Showing some confidence in yourself and 2) Expressing some care for her like a best friend--connecting like that as if you value her (knowing that the connecting as lovers will grow out of that friendship and caring).

On her side, she has all the puzzle pieces and she sees the whole picture--and all at the same time it makes her sick but she also misses it! It made her feel cared for! You, on the other hand, only have a piece here and a piece there, and you can't see the whole picture. You keep struggling to see the whole picture. So share that analogy with her and let her know that now you get it--that giving you more pieces hurts her because she has to look at the picture again. But at the same time, not having the whole picture hurts you. Then propose that you two reach an agreement that would work for both of you: you agree to ask her only ONE question a day, and she agrees to answer that ONE question fully and honestly. Then tomorrow you two could agree on how long to ask the questions (maybe 30 days or 60 days). That way she knows it won't be an ongoing Inquisition or feel like an interrogation, and at the same time you'll feel like she's not avoiding you or being dishonest.

#2--I do realize this is a hard concept to grasp, but when she says she hasn't been happy for 5 years, there are two things happening there all-at-once. There is a kernel of truth in that statement--but it is also likely somewhat re-written so she can justify to herself why she would commit adultery. After all, if someone is in misery and long-suffering "for years" or their spouse was "abusive"...why then it's okay right? So there's truth there but it's like magnified.

I'll give you an example. Your daughter is not quite 6 you say, but she says she's been unhappy for 5 years. So not too long after your daughter was born, she wanted to return to work and you wanted her to be a SAHM. She didn't really want that, but didn't really let you know that she felt like that because what kind of mom doesn't want to stay at home? So she agrees...but her heart is a little resentful. As each day goes by, she feels more and more trapped, more and more cut off, lonely, and frustrated because she "doesn't love her own child like she ought to." Even adding one blade of grass every day will eventually, in five years, become a pile of grass! So she it's not like she was miserable enough to say something, but at the same time it was like slowly boiling under the surface.

THEN your daughter goes to kindergarten and she gets a little PT job! Huzzah! She gets to get out a little and not feel too guilty and she feels a little bit good. And someone at work appreciates her work. A man. Then she notices him and decides she'll work EXTRA HARD for him...and maybe dress up just a little. At the same time, you keep pressuring her to quit her little job and she doesn't really WANT to! So she yells, you two fight...and she's comparing the OM who's complimenting her and telling her how GREAT she is, to you who's fighting with her and telling her to stop doing something that makes her feel good. That doesn't go on very long until she begins to say to herself, "You know...I've been miserable for years! Why am I putting up with this?"

See how there's a kernel of truth in that example? She should have told you the truth and said, "I really do not want to stay home. I feel too cut off and lonely here" but she didn't, did she? And as it grew and boiled under the surface she should have been transparent and respectfully requested some change to meet her needs--right? But at the same time, when she did try, you didn't know and you'd work long hours, leave her home alone with all the housework, not say thank you (after all, if she washes your clothes, she's not your servant!), and yell about it or make her feel guilty (or whatever) ...

AND THAT is the kernel of truth. See it? That is the stuff you need to own and say, "Yep that was me. She needs someone to sit an hour or two a night and talk to her!" and then make the time to do that for her.
 
#84 ·
Affaircare,
Understood, Thank You.
I have heeded your advice from past posts and i am not clinging. In the first couple weeks i was so rt there that I think she is expecting that. Now I will not go out of my way to say hi like pre d day when i would welcome her home open arms. When we eventually cross paths in the hous we exchange hellos. She is much more stand offish with me. Alot of the rest of what you said I can apply o my sith as well. Thanks again more to learn for me.
 
#86 ·
Seems that she is only beginning to realize the real situation. For years, she never told you things weren't so great. But like most women, she didn't realize that when you say to a man that everythings okay, he takes your word for it. Men simply do not have the telepathy that women have to understand that "Everything's fine" really means "I SAY that it's fine, but I want you to talk with me until you can figure out what the problem is."
It may, or may not, have dawned on her that for years she had opportunities to make things better, but she blew it.
It sounds like maybe the best-not the only-way to make her realize this is to let her get a place. It will probably be a case of her finding out-the hard way-that the old saying of "Be careful what you wish for..." is way too true.
 
#87 ·
102 Sadly especially for my kids i am starting to sway this way. She is very short with me on the phone, however and she knows i look at the phone record. She spent 20 min on the phone with OM this AM. Granted right now they are about 500 mile apart and she is with all the children that does not make it better. I am not quite sure how to handle this the kids being my number 1 priority i want her in the house for Christmass. They both say it is over. But she is not over it. OM continues to tell his spouse he wants to work it out. This is so high school, I can't stand it. Things to do here.
 
#88 ·
Tanelornpete and Affaircare, in your experience if the WW need some sort of closure is it ever beneficial to ignore the knowlege of those contacts? Should I ask her to please tell me before i discover it? I would prefer no contact as I am sure would OM spouse. But in my W's current state of mind I do not think she is up for that disclosure I think she would shut down even more. There is another logical reason for a phone call at the time it occurred but those reasons i do not want to post. But that reason would need to be cut off OM could find someone else to call, if it is why the call was made.


So should I bring up the call or just pocket it?
Should I just monitor the situation as a form of self defense?

For some reason this is becoming less painful when I think about the big D and me for my kids I cry.
 
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