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Wife decided after ea/pa divorce seperation is the only way help save this pls

48K views 246 replies 17 participants last post by  disbelief 
#1 ·
My W had an EA/PA she took this week for space.OM is staying with his family. we have 5 kids. She finally admitted she feels leaving is the only option will Divorce busting and 7 steps even work at this point. It wil be a couple of months before she leaves the house. Help please.
 
#118 · (Edited)
Sample of exposure letter used elsewhere. It is a template used by a couple of BS before. I must add the exposure route needs to be far reaching, I have read cases where all the facebook friends and contacts on the WS mobile phone were sent this letter, either by mail or text. The reaction is the WS goes mad, not sure if yours will but hey she is still in the affair..


Dear ........., I would like to ask you to support......... and myself in restoring our marriage which currently is undergoing an extremely difficult time due to ........ and ........... being involved in an adulterous affair which is affecting our marriage and both of our physical and mental health. I know you care about .......... and want only the best for her which clearly being used in an adulterous affair is not. I would like to ask your help in recommending marital counselling to her to guide us through this difficult spot in our marriage.

Please do contact me if you have any questions or need more information.

Thank you


Play with the words if you want to but the message is the same..WS's often see the car as a secure place to talk hence the use of a VAR, voice activated recorder. There is nothing wrong in telling all his friends and family, I bet he has not been to vocal about it.


. She has all the"symptoms" of withdrawal. Since d day she rarely uses home computer or home phone she has mostly isolated herself.
What you do not know is if she is trying to stop the affair, indications are not , her call is breaking NC that means the affair is still there and may be deeper underground. Until NC is effected in totality there is little or no chance of the marriage recovering. You may want to put this message across to the OM's wife, her marriage is at risk as well, do not tell her what you are doing.

Message to your wife, the OM and his wife:-- NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT EVER
 
#120 ·
You can also get a gps tracking transmitter and stick it to her car. I've heard they are not always reliable though.
 
#121 ·
Eli,
OK I understand the exposure the no contact I get it I agree with it But here's my thinking.... Trust them no I don't But in the event the truth is being told which seems likely at this point. I hold my doubts If i expose before the holidays she will bolt she will not be open to any sort of recovery once family knows she will turn against me D wise she has said she would sign all over for sake of kids and all Family would be in emotional pain. So how is that one a win. I get your point I do but I don't have enough evidence........yet.
 
#122 ·
Some questions:

What does this sentence mean?

Trust them no I don't But in the event the truth is being told which seems likely at this point.
One thing that will help you - probably the MOST useful tool - is to think with extreme clarity. Helps make decisions, and in the end makes the difference between sounding reliable and honest and being wishy-washy, confused and useless. Making sure that your thoughts are very clearly expressed on this forum is a very good way to practice this clarity. Not trying to pick on you or anything - but it is very difficult to even know what the problem IS, let alone try to find solutions!

Again, what on earth does this sentence mean?

I hold my doubts If i expose before the holidays she will bolt she will not be open to any sort of recovery once family knows she will turn against me D wise she has said she would sign all over for sake of kids and all Family would be in emotional pain.
Finally - why don't you have enough evidence? Are you still doubting that an affair is going on?
 
#123 ·
Some questions:

What does this sentence mean?




One thing that will help you - probably the MOST useful tool - is to think with extreme clarity. Helps make decisions, and in the end makes the difference between sounding reliable and honest and being wishy-washy, confused and useless. Making sure that your thoughts are very clearly expressed on this forum is a very good way to practice this clarity. Not trying to pick on you or anything - but it is very difficult to even know what the problem IS, let alone try to find solutions!

Again, what on earth does this sentence mean?



Finally - why don't you have enough evidence? Are you still doubting that an affair is going on?
No offense taken that was poorly expressed. What I meant was I do not want to push exposing the affair when what evidence I have of it ongoing is only a couple phone calls. My w if I push will bolt I believe with christmass a month away and 4 kids 11 and under. I do not want to make this traumatic time and W and OM are well known to me and whole family it would cause alot of emotional pain for alot of people.
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#124 ·
Thanks for clarifying that! Makes more sense now!

Still have to ask, though - are you saying that the ONLY reason you believe your wife is having an affair is because she made two phone calls?

Regarding the idea of keeping people from feeling uncomfortable by allowing your wife to have an affair, may I point out that if your marriage falls apart because of her infidelity, you will not be able to protect people from bad feelings?

Your marriage can survive people feeling uncomfortable. It cannot survive an ongoing affair.

Last question/remark - so what if your wife 'bolts' - where can she go to avoid the hurt she is causing people by cheating on her family? Will she not still be responsible for this - no matter where she goes? Do you really think you can 'make' the affair stop by manipulating situations in order to keep her home?

I can say this: the ONLY way an affair will end is if the cheating partners (one or both) decide to end it. It doesn't matter if she is home or gone, unless SHE comes to the realization that she wants her family, and not her lover - things will not change.

You cannot 'make' this go the way you want.
 
#125 · (Edited)
I only do not have solid proof of an ongoing affair. When D Day hit about 8 weeks we were in an argument and I was pushing the what is wrong question and she just blurted it out. Now she wants to seperate they both say its over. As I have said I know the OM much better than I wish I did. And after D Day we even spoke he couldn't keep his mouth shut on more than one occaision and revealed things. My W still does not want to discuss the A I Know cheaters lie. But if it is really over if I can't prove it is still ongoing, if I do a no contact and it forces them to say buy prepaid cell phones there goes any monitoring I have. The bigger picture is I think she is done either way I still have a shimmer of hope. She was just pleasant to me on the phone but she gets off in a rush to ( made sure I did by first) I don't want to put my family through the pain especially the kids this close to christmass. My W is very withdrawn she said straight out to me she is not over it (the A).

You are right she can not avoid the hurt. I am not manipulating situations. I have been trying to wade through this as best as possible and the advice here has helped I have faltered. She is growing more distant laying blame on years of our R. I know people will be hurt if our M falls apart but I am sure that if I push that reveal esposure to all button right now my kids will not have mom at home for Christmas.

I need to speak with OM spouse. She is believing him 100x's easier than my behavior. I am currently hypervigilant trusting next to no one.

OM swears he ended it and it is over and he wants to save his M. But I can't prove if they are lying and meeting or not. I know they have had 3 phone calls he tells his W she tells me when we talk. My W wants privacy does not want to do transparency straightup said she can't do that right now. One of the many reasons I have very little hope left.

I am frustrated I do appreciate the input If I had not found this forum, I don't know how i would be handling this at all.



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#126 · (Edited)
I am in disbelief that you are not taking action,

Your wife told you she is in an affair - fact

OM has admitted the affair , if not in so many words - fact

Its all your fault and you are the bad guy, she will tell her family so, you destroyed the marriage, - this is what she believes - fact and this is what will be believed by all - fact

Your wife has told you she is separating from you - fact.

She is talking to the OM, BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL HAVING AN AFFAIR - fact - Do you get it.

They are planning the next steps --In January. Feb or soon thereafter Mrs. Disbelief will say she has a place to go to and OM will have a place to sleep, a bed to rest his weary body and your wife just happens to be in it. - Fact , this will happen whether you tell people the truth or not

If his wife believes he is having a platonic conversation she is a fool. - tell her so, suggest she joins another forum, say the one at marriage builders and asks for advice, this way you are on separate forums and I assure you she will be told very quickly what is happening and the steps to take.. the same as I am telling you.

So

This is sincere advice. This is hard and fast from a professional who is very successfully in rebuilding marriages, for the record not I.

While she is in contact with the OM the marriage will never recover

As of the moment the affair started you had no marriage, you have no marriage now, so do nothing and pray ,while it is good for the soul it is very ineffectual in real life or take action .

Adapt the note stating that they have both acknowledged the affair , post it on the forum if you are not sure of the words and we will help you.

At a minimum you call her family and send the note to them. She does not want to tell them because it is a secret and wants to control the message when she leaves, by sending the note now and her leaving confirms to people she has gone because of the OM. Do the same to the OM's friends, if he did not want to talk to your wife he would ignore her calls, he is in this up to his neck so pull no punches and stop doubting yourself.

They both admitted the affair to you so take action.

At all times remember your wife and the OM are pathological liars, never believe what they say to be true and drum this into your head.

Give it one more shot as I do not think you have done this.
You speak to her today, face to face, tell her the affair stops now and that she ceases all contact the OM. Tell her she is destroying two families. YOU forgive her, you will fight for your marriage and will leave no stone unturned to repair the damage and return the love between you. Together you will go to counseling to build a better and more rewarding marriage. Warn your wife if OM goes near your children you will get a restraining order against him. Say no more, present no evidence, there is no debate, look her in the eye when you talk to her.

Then

tell the family and close friends via mail, text and conversation. Talk directly with your in laws, make sure they know she and OM both admitted the affair. Do so now, Thanksgiving and Christmas are good times for her to see what she is going to miss. You must make sure you all have a great family time, she can be present or not her choice.

Carry on gathering evidence i.e. the VAR, you want to hear the innocent conversation, hide the device well.

Plan A her- for about 6 weeks, this takes you to Jan about the time she will try to leave. If she is responding to the Plan A then it goes on for a lot longer. Do not trust her carry on gathering evidence and be diligent. Do not discuss divorce or separation, it is not on your agenda, if she brings it up state it is not an option, walkout of the room.

Prepare for Plan B- if she has not divulged all and is not actively working on the marriage you start this in Jan/Feb, this occurs regardless if she leaves or not, this is when you and her tell your children mom has a boyfriend and is leaving home. She pays 50 /50 of all bills and assume her full share of the finances. Separation must be formal through the courts, call the OM as witness to the affair, see how he baulks at this.

Key for you is to get through Plan A, if she comes back to the marriage great, if not do Plan B, the effort is enormousness on your side. You will be stressed, tired and hurt all the time. If she contacts the OM at any time you are back to square one, the timescales don't change and Plan B become a reality

What ever happens you work on yourself, the children stay with you, you be firm, lead the family and show gumption, the OM is not your friend he is not better than you treat him such.

Get legal advice in readiness for a separation, follow the legal advice, she leaves she pays you to support the family, you are not having the affair she is.

The above will need some finessing but at a summary level this is what you should be working to
 
#128 ·
Xmas - don't worry about it. If she decides not be around your kids, she will do it anyway. Don't let that drive your decisions.
Counseling for seperation - go but firmly state you will not process toward toward D at all. This is not the time while both of in shock over the discovery and it's not what you want so you will not support it any way. Tell her you will wait a minimum of 6 months before discusssing - not agreeing to any such moves becasue it's not what you want and while the two of you are not thinking straight it's not the time.

Moving out - you don't agree becuase the odds are worse that you will work through it. If she does it, it is completely on her own. If she decides to do that you will seperate bank accounts and finances and she will continue to pay 50% of all of the home expenses and pay50% of all utilities and groceries etc. It was a lifetime commitment. Transfer the house - no -relieves her of the payments.

STOP - do not let it progress. ANd if this counselor says otherwise - stop going.

Stopping contact - she has to do it and you can't force it. Quit chewing on it and just watch.

Time is the answer if it's possible, drag your feet in every way you can. DOn't confront. Work on yur issues and wait.
 
#129 ·
Sunday morning coffee and information overload. I feel like my heads gonna pop between reading the forum yesterday and DB book.
I will plan for all of the above, this weeks assignment, is all of the above and Turkey Day. VAR, like it.
She is returning today if I were to jump rt on any of this it would push her away even more. So observe and report making a list. Watch her actions. At the same time it would probably help if OM spouse was doing the same. She is just believing him. If the fog theory is true then my W probably believes I stopped checking the phone record.
I have made appoinments for consults. If she in this fog decides to sign over the house, I will do that to secure it for my children. I will refinance I can do it on my income if I must. She will not let her kids starve hopefully they cleared her fog a little this weekend. She was pleasant but short on the phone with me last night. I will take that with 1/2 a grain of salt. I feel I am Caring less I must be detatching a couple days alone has helped, allowed time for emotional release.
Just so everyone knows your input and advice is not falling on deaf ears. There has been so much in the past few days. Thank You
 
#130 ·
Whatever you do do not smother her or follow her around like a lost puppy, she must see and believe you are more than capable of looking after yourself and the children.

Do a lot for your children start doing the things she used to do, the message is you do not need her in your life, you may want her but you you do not need her, she will feel exposed to see you doing so well..

This is going to hurt you a lot so be brave, show with your actions and words you are confident and are prepared to move forward. This will scare her.
 
#131 ·
That is part of her resentment due to employment situations, one of her complaints was that I am too involved in the kids she never has her time she already knows I can do it without her she thinks kids wont miss her if she goes.
Stopped the lost puppy weeks ago. Ramped up where i was lacking trying to keep it up.
Kids are my priority.
I have done a few out of the norm things for me and have seen the surprise on her face.

Thanks
 
#132 ·
Ok I read some of the exposing info.
Now because of the close knit group this would effect and the fact that the two couples involved said they were not going to reveal the A. My WW and OM both revealed out of guilt they were not caught. Not excusing their decision.
But if we, myself and OM spouse, decide to go through with full tsunami of exposure..... Should anytime along the way, if evidence is growing, should we drop the hint to the effect : You know if you do not stop contacting OM/OW I/we are going to get to the point where all family members are going to have to know what is really going on?

If OM/OW is willing to give his/her spouse full transparency to email access, phone access, report phone calls. Instead of LS discovering does this mean anything?

I am not debating previous info, I just needed to ask this point of view. My W's sibling knows, OM's sibling knows. I don't think they know who the name of the A partner is.

Thanks again everyone
 
#134 · (Edited)
You must must must tell all, no hints, plain hard they are committing adultery type words. Gathering of evidence continues along the way and will do for some time. They have admitted the affair, your note must say so . having siblings in the know is good. The broader the exposure the more effective it is to kill the affair and force NC.

If you and the OM's wife can agree a dual exposure it takes away any doubt of the lie, if she does not support you go ahead with out her. A word of caution, if the OM's wife leaks this to the OM then he will cover his tracks and start gaslighting you and will tell your wife.

If OM/OW is willing to give his/her spouse full transparency to email access, phone access, report phone calls. Instead of LS discovering does this mean anything?
No, often this goes deeper and the truth will come out, you do not want them playing hooky sometime in the future, your task is to kill this permanently

Be clear on your plan, trust no one especially the OM

It does a couple of things, it keeps them honest should they recommit to the marriage as the OM claims he has, which is doubtful if he is talking to your wife. It allows a lot of people to monitor them and ask questions if they are seen in places they should not be.

The evidence is to tell all that they are continuing the affair, you do not at this stage tell anyone of the new evidence. The letter simply says they are having an affair, this is by their own admission and you are asking for support to rebuild your marriage and the OM's wife her marriage. .
 
#135 · (Edited)
Extract from one of Harley's books

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.
It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.
Take the steps methodically and purposefully, expect a back lash from them as well as from some family members, par for the course.

As for the rest of the family and friends, send them a mail you may find out that the OM is having an affair or has had one with other women in this group, this has happened before.
 
#136 · (Edited)
Sorry disbelief this is over three posts..

The reason they do not want to reveal it is it makes them out to be the bad guys and over time they WILL turn this against you. Imagine you going to functions that they attend, how are you going to deal with it, your wife should she reconnect to your marriage will be tempted again and again.

NC is NC is NC for ever.

The revelation of the affair is you telling the truth, it will be uncomfortable for all, especially if you are in the same circle of friends, they both knew this when they started the affair.

You have to be selfish as does the OM's wife , I am assuming from your posts you are talking to each other, neither OM or your wife have proved beyond a shadow of the doubt that this is over. Your wife is talking about separation.

The telling of the truth to all is the single most effective way for you to recover your marriage, today what you know is your wife is leaving you. OM is with his wife, you think? or is he planning an exit as well?

Assume the worst, be joyful for the best and always keep a clear head and take decisive action. It is this that will show your wife you intend to fight for her love and your marriage.

She is in the fog and will remain so until the affair is over and NC has been effected over many many weeks.
 
#137 ·
Just remember, even if she signs over the house, 1/2 of the mortgage, utilities and all expenses are still hers as part of the child support she would be ordered to pay if you D. Nothing changes now. Wait till after she signs if you want to. Just make it as financially painful as it would be if you were divorced. Otherwise she will spend it chasing OM or others and leave you holding the bag until the D. Include daycare, babysitting or any other expense you would incur to make a life for yourself as a single parent. She wants out, she needs to see what it will really be like.
 
#138 ·
I would like to say I could predict a Happy ending but there is already a slight increase in texting no phone calls I will grit my teeth gather my evidence and prepare my course of action. She's not over the A. I don't think she's going to be. I want to go stuff it in her face rt now but I won't.
 
#140 ·
Ok so to keep all of you with more experience in the loop. The OM had the odacity to contact me via txt today, I remained polite it was for a practical issue involving older children (close group). I told him to please speak to so and so.. This went on for a few txt, he txt'd he would contact my W then, At which point I sent the final txt telling him who to contact instead of me or her and politely stated it would also be nice if he stopped contacting my wife so that I have a chance to save my family.
I directly asked W if they talked and she admited yes, not about the subject he contacted me on. She very plainly stated they just talk. I was about to walk away when I very calmly soft toned stated i don't know what if anything is going to become of us but if you keep talking to OM nothing will or maybe I said can. Her response ...sigh.. and look away.
I still plan to gather evidence, speak to OM spouse. And plan this possible exposure.
I hate this, hate what a D will do to my kids I want to confront her now I think a ride instead.
Thank you all for your support, as you can see I need it.
 
#141 ·
don't wait too long to contact the OM wife. By the time I contacted the OW H in my case she had already filed for divorced and managed to coach my now ex H to do the same. I later found out that the OW had very serious issues in her marriage and when I called her now ex H he was already resigned and done with the marriage.
 
#142 ·
Disbelief:

Be strong, don’t let her bait you; never ever lose your cool.

For the texting in the house, ignore her if you have spare cash get a device that jams the mobile signal.

As for what process to follow Harley or DB, decide on one and stick to it, I am a Harley’s proponent.

In many affairs if a wife asks for a separation that means she has an OM ready and waiting in the wings. She walked out last week, I guess she thought the OM would do the same, they had a call and changed the plan, he may (very likely) leave his wife in the near future. They are likely waiting for Christmas to pass and to pretend all is well.

I would not wait past the next few days to expose their affair, every delay plays into their hands. She has admitted to you she is in an affair and is in love with the OM, so

adapt the note slightly:

Opening line..

As you may be aware ___and ___ are in an affair with each other. (your wife’s) name has confirmed the affair to myself. (continue with the rest of the mail).

If the OM’s wife can send out a similar message and text then there will be few if any challenges from friends and family.

You must be strong, assume the worse, they will gaslight you, they will show people some of the text messages and say they are just friends talking, it is all blah blah.

Be prepared to lose your marriage, this is how serious this is, you may have lost your wife already but if you do not fight for her love you will never know.

Don’t debate with family and friends, this is your marriage you are fighting for.
 
#143 ·
I would not wait past the next few days to expose their affair, every delay plays into their hands. She has admitted to you she is in an affair and is in love with the OM, so

adapt the note slightly:

Opening line..

As you may be aware ___and ___ are in an affair with each other. (your wife’s) name has confirmed the affair to myself. (continue with the rest of the mail).

If the OM’s wife can send out a similar message and text then there will be few if any challenges from friends and family.

You must be strong, assume the worse, they will gaslight you, they will show people some of the text messages and say they are just friends talking, it is all blah blah.

Be prepared to lose your marriage, this is how serious this is, you may have lost your wife already but if you do not fight for her love you will never know.

Don’t debate with family and friends, this is your marriage you are fighting for.[/QUOTE]

I was reading Dr Hartleys plans last night. Does plan A ever work? Is it worth the attempt while continuing to monitor the sitch and educate OM Spouse this week.

When W went away that week OM was working confirmed also. However since the"closure" phone call the frequency of contact has increased. Speak with OM spouse very soon.
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#144 ·
I was reading Dr Hartleys plans last night. Does plan A ever work? Is it worth the attempt while continuing to monitor the sitch and educate OM Spouse this week.
Plan A for you to improve your self, it is not designed on its own to bring your wife back, Its about your behaviours and bettering yourself in the face of the challenge, she must see you as the man who is better than the OM, she may not respond as she is still in the affair she will however notice the changes in you.

Keep to the process, it is tried and proven, what no can say is if it will be successful for you, it is very dependant on your wife’s response over time, hence the overwhelming exposure technique to cause her and the OM instability and isolation from friends and family. All these add to the pressure..

Make sure the exposure is total, friends, family , hers, his, all contacts on the phones if you can get access to these. Etc.. it must be a single once off massive push. Whoever the meet and wherever they go your wife and OM must feel uncomfortable and isolated.




When W went away that week OM was working confirmed also. However since the"closure" phone call the frequency of contact has increased. Speak with OM spouse very soon.
My take on this is when you confronted your wife she stepped out prematurely and did think through this, she had calls with the OM and now they are making plans either to deny and gaslight you or leave together. Non of this stops you from bringing this to a head and brining their fantasy to the table.

The frequency of the calls tells you you have to act soon they are most certainly up to something.
 
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