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Wife decided after ea/pa divorce seperation is the only way help save this pls

48K views 246 replies 17 participants last post by  disbelief 
#1 ·
My W had an EA/PA she took this week for space.OM is staying with his family. we have 5 kids. She finally admitted she feels leaving is the only option will Divorce busting and 7 steps even work at this point. It wil be a couple of months before she leaves the house. Help please.
 
#174 ·
I guess she's beyond talk she is going to look at places sunday still wants to buy but has considered temporary move in type also. So now do I change anything I am doing?
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#176 ·
Tan...thank you.
I spoke with om spouse today. My w tried calling OM today he did not answe by choice he told his w of the call he is being transparent I suggested they include emails also. I tried to express how a NC letter may help on my end also. I am begining to believe my W thinks there maybe a chance for the A. I believe my w has more hope for the A than our M. Subtle hints say my real W is still in there and not the affair alien but I have low hopes.
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#177 ·
Let me see if I can help clear up how the Last Resort Technique (LST) of DB and our seven steps "work together. "

One thing I think that's confusing you is that the word "exposure" used in both places does not mean the same thing. In our seven steps, that term is a way of identifying the step wherein you have already spoken to your spouse directly (giving them the option to stop on their own, discretely, without anyone ever knowing) and they've refused; then you've spoken to maybe one respected person to gather support, encouragement and some help talking to your spouse (again giving them the option to do the right thing and end the affair quietly). Once you've done both of those things, and the Disloyal Spouse has twice hardened their heart--to their own spouse and to someone they respect--then we recommend the step we identify as "exposure" and we gave it that name because in this step the loyal spouse no longer keeps the affair "a secret" or stops cooperating with making the affair easy. In this step, in our method, the affair is exposed in a very controlled, limited way--and only to those whose lives are going to be impacted if the spouse continues to harden their heart and continue the affair. The parents are told because as grandparents they are about to lose half of the time with their grandchildren and son/daughter-in-law, and because they may have some influence in helping their child do the right thing. Siblings are told because at half the family celebrations, such as holidays, the kids and the brother/sister-in-law will no longer be there--and because our siblings are often the ones who offer you support to get through this! Employers are told because you will be out of the office for court dates or legal appointments...and both of you will have lower productivity for a while. Also if it is a workplace affair, they may have legal issues if they don't address sexual harassment in the workplace. Lifelong friends are told because sometimes people are at odds or estranged from their own family, and their lifelong friends are "family by choice" so you tell them so they can help. So you can see that the term is not meant as "spread this around to harm your partner and create bad gossip" but rather as a way of acting on a boundary: "I expect a partner who is 100% faithful and will accept nothing less. If you are not offering 100% fidelity, I am not willing to lie and cover it up, nor am I willing to cooperate with adultery and call it be more romantic euphemisms."

After Exposure, we suggest Step Five: Carrot & Stick (similar to Plan A). This step has two parts that you do simultaneously:A) Carrot and B) Stick. An affair doesn't happen in a vacuum, and almost universally infidelity experts realize that an affair is a symptom of deeper problems in the marriage. So when you have a symptom, you look for the deeper illness and then take antibiotics to cure the illness, right? Same here. You can not control her but you can control YOU, so look to yourself and what you did to contribute to the troubles in the marriage. What Love Kindlers did you gradually stop doing? What Love Extinguishers did you gradually start doing more and more? A)Carrot is looking at yourself, working on yourself, looking good-smelling good, and showing your disloyal that you are able to be an attractive partner. Part of this is 180 and LRT--namely if you look at yourself and realize you had been working too hard and not paying attention--they learn how to balance worklife/homelife and learn how to be an active listener. If you have been given up recreations, ask her to join and get a life. The point of A)Carrot is not to be a doormat, but rather to remember the man you used to be who attracted her in the first place, and be that kind of man again! Be the man you can be!

B)Stick is closer to the 180 and LRT. In this second part of Step Five, which we suggest you do at the same time as A)Carrot, you allow your Disloyal Spouse to experience the consequences of their choice to continue to be unfaithful. This is not punishment! Just don't stand in the way of natural consequences. For example, if you two had a joint cell phone bill and you've always paid the bill...and the way she stays in contact with her lover is through the cell phone, why this B)Stick would be to identify out loud for her the boundary that you will not pay for her to carry on with another man, so if she chooses to do that, you will stop paying for her cell phone. Now, you can not control her, so she may decide to buy her own cell phone or let her lover buy her one, but you can control YOU...and YOU will not pay for your wife to have a lover! See how that's a boundary...and you're setting the fence around what you will and will not do, not telling her what she can and can not do. She's free to choose--you just won't pay so she can commit adultery!

During this step--Step Five: Carrot & Stick--it is vital that you get a life, carry on with improving yourself, restart an old hobby or recreation, and maybe even go to individual counseling for your own issues. The idea is that at the same time you show her the POSITIVE she could have, and show her the NEGATIVE costs of continuing infidelity. Showing her those two things at the same time increase the likelihood of wanting to end the affair and return to the marriage--it's not a guarantee but the chances can be improved.

Our next step, Step Six: Consequences/No Contact sort of straddles the 180/LRT of Divorce Busters. Most people will try Step Five for a while but the emotional toll of showing the benefits of the marriage while he/she is still being unfaithful can really be exhausting. This step is on the firmer end of 180/LRT. We suggest sending a letter to explain that you see your part, that you've done work to address your part, but that the emotional pain is too great and until they're ready to do A, B, and C you will need to have no contact with them.

In our steps, we have one place where you gather evidence and that's at the beginning when you have that feeling that something's wrong but no proof. After you have proof, you have no need to gather any more evidence--because you know it is unfaithfulness! Once your disloyal spouse agrees to end the affair and work on the marriage, many loyal spouses make the mistake of saying, "Now I have to snoop on them to see if they mean it." NOPE! Part of the A, B, and C of returning is that the Disloyal agrees that it is THEIR JOB to show you by transparency that it really is over! THEY offer their phone, their email account, their passwords. If they don't, then it doesn't meet A, B, and C and there is no reconciliation.

Same for exposure. You don't go to their parents over and over with every gossipy detail of the affair and your marriage...or turn to friends over every single fight. That's just trying to get people on your side! Nope, you tell them once. You NOTIFY them in a pretty business-like manner, so they are not told half-truths or outright lies! Envision a boundary: you will not participate in adultery by covering it up, pretending it's not happening, or hiding it from the family. You will tell the truth, and nothing more. (By the way it's not "dragging her name through the mud" to tell the truth--it's acting unfaithfully that is "dragging her name through the mud." If you tell the truth and she's being faithful--that doesn't harm her reputation does it? So see how that's a very common lie they get you to believe? It's their ACTIONS not you telling the truth once.) When she ends the affair and returns to the marriage, you'll tell the truth about that too!

So I hope this helps clear up the confusion. They are not conflicting methodologies but really just expressed in different ways. Some of our steps straddle some of the 180/LRT but the same concepts are there.
 
#178 ·
She says the A is over, yet, by your last post, she is STILL in contact with him.

The A is SO not over, and it sounds like she is waiting for everyone to calm down and the dust to settle so that she and OM can pick up again.
 
#179 ·
Thank you affaircare.
f102. I am remaining vigilant. Yesterday she called OM. He did not answer. OM spouse says he was not happy she called. He has supposedly committed to fixing his marriage. That is the only attempted phone contact in 6 days. It was for a reason that before the A he would've been called for. My W needs to realize she doesn't need. To call him. OM has pressure from ext family also. I talked NC letter from OM to my W. I think she feels there is still a chance for the A I told OM spouse how effective for my W the NC letter. Would be to end hopes. It is painful to witness her have no hope for our M but all this A stuff. I really do not think she is going to change her mind. I was going to txt her sibling to make sure it is known how I feel and not my W fog point of view. They will be together later.
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#180 ·
If your wife calls the OM, his wife should call her back and blast her for breaking NC. She must then tell your wife the OM has agreed to tell her every time your wife contacts him and should she persist he will obtain a restraining order against her..

I suggest the OM's wife call her soonish since the last attempt at contact was not that long ago.

The OM's wife must call you as well each and every time they contact each other, you must reciprocate.

has pressure from ext family also.
What pressure?
 
#181 ·
The pressure= Close family that he cares deeply about that he will loose if he continued the A. They would decide no contact with him. That head of family had it out on him. In my W's case she doesn't have bonds like that. I will mention the R order. They still need to complete the NC letter and get on MB. I am still watching everything. My W is on the defensive after her last conversation with OM its like we are 2 weeks after D day. I have warned OM spouse to stay alert whenever my W has called he has told his W. I remain suspicious.
thanks again I am heeding your advice and trying to work with OM spouse as a united front.
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#182 · (Edited)
Keep working on the OM's wife, the NC letter will be a smack of reality for your wife and the fantasy should start evaporationg. Do not fear if she leaves home, the children stay with you. If this does occur you must ensure the separation is legal in the event she claims you abandoned her. I have seen a tactic that the OM is subpoenaed to court, if your wife understands this she may rethink her position, do not disclose this unless you have to.

The OM's wife must take advice she cannot do this on her own and it will align both of you in your strategy.

Carry on Plan A'ing. Be that man she fell in love with. Always tell your wife you love her and are willing to forgive and rebuild the marriage.

Keep the process in mind No Contact, Full transparency ,- honesty and openness, Full commitment to the steps required to recover the marriage and affair proof it for the future.

These same steps have to be understood by the OM's wife, is she is not following the same processes she in turn will have problems in her marriage.

If the OM refuses to sign the No Contact letter the advice for his wife is she has no choice but to disclose the affair herself to the immediate family, especially his side.

Stay strong, prepare yourself for a tough time, it will get harder.
 
#183 ·
One voice from the other side. There are many bitter people on these forums. You need to do what YOU think is best. EVERYONE'S SITUATION IS DIFFERENT. It takes time for change to start happening. Too close to D day and neither of you is thinking clearly - especially her. My WW went through a period of mourning over the loss of the OM and her relationship with him. IN retrospect, both times we were in no physical contact, it was because she had too recently had contact an OM and yes there was more than one. I did not follow ALL of the advise given here. I did what I thought would amke ehr comfortable and yes it is ****ty that you have to be one the use sense and compassion. The main question is what do you want in the future and how will what YOU do effect her. In my case, I decided my love for my WW was too strong and I wnated it eventually work out. As i said before, I worked on what I knew were love busters that I was doing and backed completely off. No exposure, no harassing, no "beating her up" (emotionally) as she called it. What worked for me may not work for you. Decide what you want and what you think will bring her back if that's what you want.
 
#184 ·
8 years, Thanks for chiming in would love to hear more from you in the future. Our stories are very similar as far as our W's personalities seem. I have calmed down alot over the last couple of weeks. I have backed off prob 98% closing in on 100% I am thinking before I speak. Filtering those emotional thoughts. Validating, we have not argued in at least a week, she gets defensive over childrens events that she cannot attend due to schedule especially if it includes any atypical behavior on my part in arranging them I consider it a 180, such as not waiting on her. She said she is staying at her siblings tonight I said ok. Confirmed OM is at home with his kids. She is going to look at places tomorrow and can't make it home before work so I said ok instead of the kids are going to miss you. Should I have normal conversation about the places?
She stopped jolting away from my slight touch again, I need to stop testing that, she asked some questions about some small house work being planned and finished with do what you want but left out the whatever the house is going to be yours anyway like she said a week ago. I wont see her until monday.
I have been low key and responding calmly to her. I am still watching for signs of contact, and found 1 txt fro OM to my W today. Now we can really question his commitment to NC. Will discuss with OM spouse.

I guess what is discouraging for me is she still is set on moving out and that has been consistent since shortly after D Day. I was just reading about EA's/ Relationship Affairs another site said they are the toughest to recover from and that the madly in love state can last from 6 - 36 months.


Does anyone have an opinion having regular conversation with ones spouse in these situations or giving compliments to the WW?
I am watching to make sure she is not still in the A. And I am trying to determine how to behave to occaisionally remind her that I still love her and that our family life and marriage mean alot.

Thanks again everyone
 
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#185 ·
disbelief,

you need to accept that your marriage is over, and do what is necessary to make the divorce as amicable as possible.

Your wife's intentions are crystal clear and she has not wavered on them. Is there some reason you don't want to take that at face value?

Yes I guess because I am holding onto a glimmer of hope and that she has not actually asked for the seperation/divorce. The A is reportedly over I am watching to be sure. And no I did listen to the words my wife said through our relationship. I could not hear the ones she did not say but hinted at. I am working on accepting and detatching I will have to get reading material to help the kids cope.
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#186 ·
you need to accept that your marriage is over, and do what is necessary to make the divorce as amicable as possible.

Your wife's intentions are crystal clear and she has not wavered on them. Is there some reason you don't want to take that at face value?
If more betrayed spouses took this advice, the divorce rate would be much higher than it is now - and it is incredibly high now! Can you imagine this:

"Hon, I don't love you anymore - I've met someone else - we need to divorce..."

"..Ok dear..."

If this were the advice we gave, there would be people on this forum, or who USED to be on this forum - that would be divorced right now instead of living happily together.
 
#187 ·
I agree with Tanelornpete, She is mourning and trying desperately to hold onto the affair. Keep on the OM wife and get her to push the point about a restraining order and notify her of the new contact. WHen it comes to the moving out bit, tell her you don't agree and that you think it will result in lowering your chances of reconciliation and WILL NOT support it. Also tell her the kids will care and sense it even if they don't understand completely. Not confrontation, just state your opinion and position as "I feel" - NOT "you are". Measured steps with put brain in gear before opening mouth in play. The fog will not start to blow away until she begins feeling alone and feel a longing to be back. Encourage her to stay at her sisters because I doubt they will encourage her behaviour and maybe she will begin to talk to them. My wifes family was totally against her continuing the affair and let her know it. All of this will not be for naught if you do end up divorcing. Keeping it amicable willl save you both a lot of money, especially if you can convince her to use one lawyer with her having the abiltity to consult not retain an another attorney if she's not comfortable some aspect.

Stick with it! Heads up and hang on to that shred of hope. I think the tide is beggining to turn. Remember, she will try very hard to NOT give you any hope in the twisted belief that it will only hurt you more because she is not confident it can work out yet.

Stay the course - make it so.
 
#189 · (Edited)
The background on the "place" it started as a second ownership for her that we could possibly rent in the future because she just needed the space. She can't see renting because there are some purchases that are the same cost. I am avoiding the argument. A purchase this time of year can take 3 months.She said she didn't want to end up with us hating each other this was probably 6 weeks ago. She has never said she is done with our M. She is an emotional mess. I keep subtly reminding her I AM HERE. like a rock.
She has never actually asked for a seperation or divorce, when i did ask if that was what she wanted she never would answer. I took everyones advice and put those words away.
She is taking baby steps towards a real seperation. I will not ask for the divorce she wants it she can ask I will not make that easy.
She is still taking care of business I am keeping an eye on everything.
I will fight harder to fix it my children deserve that, as messed up as this is, this marriage deserves it.
Her sister knows the story and confronterd OM according to OM spouse. OM Spouse said he was going to send a NC text because he does not like letters that may have been last nights one way txt. I will be following up.
If I had told my W no don't go look at places that would have made her want to look more. So when she said she was going i said in my supportive friend voice, you know where I am if you need anything. She had a slightly surprised look on her face. I have come to realize through everyones feedback and all my reading a better way to act so I thank you all. I have read about validation.
This could have been me in her shoes.
She knows I do not want her to move out my IC knows that our MC knows that, i did tell her but you need to do what you need to do and I can't stop you. That seemed to take some wind out of the sail.

DO I tell her to stay somwhere else? Or Just not discourage it when she decides to. I also want her to be reminded that her family wants her here. There is a whole lot of I miss mommy starting. But If I tell her that I am using the children against her according to my W.
I sometimes write what I need to say because when I actually say it I miss points or it comes out wrong.

Time will tell. It's nice out, cold but nice I should close this computer for the day and take the kids outside maybe ring up some lights.
 
#190 · (Edited)
OM Spouse said he was going to send a NC text because he does not like letters that may have been last nights one way txt. I will be following up.
Not good enough he is dictating the terms, a text can be denied, a NC letter is sent from his mail account so it can tracked (forwarded to family if needed), even better that he mails it and handwrites one, then there is no claiming his wife forced him and the message to your wife is absolute.

If you can get the OM's wife to have him write a letter of apology to you as well, doubt you will get this but hey if he is committed to his marriage he should be moving mountains, the fact that he is not tells the OM's wife he is not going to stop the affair, perhaps for the moment but when the dust has settled who knows.

He is doing his best to worm out of his accountability in the affair and I bet he is not admitting this is an affair and he was committing adultery. The OM's wife must not be fooled by this because when it comes to him committing to the NC permanently then he will be in a denial stage.

Friends of the family or not they must never ever see or communicate with each other again. Doing so undoes NC and they start with the feelings again. This is the other reason why you have to let your families know, they will wonder why your two families will not be in contact or attend functions together.

Both your families must not pretend, this is very serious, they were committing adultery and it is a disease like smoking crack once hooked they cannot sniff it again ever or they are back to the beginning.

DO I tell her to stay somwhere else? Or Just not discourage it when she decides to.
No don't encourage or discourage her , the decision is hers alone, she is a big girl she knows she is hurting the children and you. The moment she steps out you switch to plan B, read up on plan B.


You are doing well considering the circumstances, so stay strong and look after yourself.
 
#191 ·
Staying with her sister may cause discussions since she appears to be against the affair. While the seperation may not be what want, it sounds like it would the safest way to do so and allow her to start feeling the loneliness and realize what she is giving up. It would also be limited in time - say 2 weeks or so. During the time, keep in touch with ehr sister and let her know it's not what you want, you just want to give space and a chance to talk to her to her sister.
 
#192 ·
Eli I agree with the NC points I am working on OM spouse if he did the txt that's a start. She is also trying not to push to hard so he doesn't back away from the idea. An apology letter will prob take more time the nc would be more effective now.

8 yrs any conversation I have with her sis I am breaking a promise I said I would respect that relationship so I have occaisionally. One way texted so I cannot intrude on that private ground everybody needs at least one person. But maybe one conversation just to be sure she knows where I stand.
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#196 ·
That's what my gut says too but I wont do it......she is going to have to say it. I think for her the A is just ending. All the other info I have been given says OM has been telling her its done. MC thursday
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#197 ·
I still have that sinking feeling that she wants out of this marriage, but she wants YOU to drop the D-bomb first!
That's relatively common - that way she isn't 'guilty' of ending the marriage. The solution is to let her do the filing. The longer she puts that off, the more time you'd have to let the affair 'zing' die, and more realistic thoughts settle back in - as well as time for her to notice that you are actually growing as a person....
 
#198 ·
That's relatively common - that way she isn't 'guilty' of ending the marriage. The solution is to let her do the filing. The longer she puts that off, the more time....
Thank you.

Any input on how to start relaying to her the kids are saying I miss mommy more than usual. If I tell her she feels I. Am exaggerating.
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#199 ·
I wouldn't push that very much - - it's way too manipulative (as in "...but think of the children!!!!..." - the way politicians extort from us all the time...) That will come out over time on it's own, and the kids will say it to her in their own words.

At the same time, her opinion of what you say is not reflective of what is being said. So what if she claims it is 'exaggerating'! Is it? If not, then why worry about her claim? If the topic comes up, just be truthful, and give her the freedom to choose to beleive or disbelieve!
 
#202 · (Edited)
Okay I have a couple of things that I would like to comment on, disbelief.

#1) Regarding "Hon, I don't love you anymore - I've met someone else - we need to divorce..." "..Ok dear..." being an oversimplification, of course it is an oversimplification, absolutely. That's the point. If everyone who heard "I love you but I'm not in love with you" just accepted that the marriage was over at the drop of a hat, we'd have a 100% divorce rate. Even those of us who love our spouses and are committed will sometimes say something mean like that in the heat of an argument! So in the same way that you don't take those "fightin' words" and just accept them...same here. Try to remember your spouse's true character and how she behaved the other 10-15 years and recognize that this may be an extended period of not behaving in a way that is true to who she is...sort of like an extended period of "fightin' words" which you later look back on with some humiliation when you come back to your true self.

#2) This is just a general topic, but I see an awful lot of comments about you watching your wife and "making her" realize she needs to have no contact, or posts/recommendations about "making the OM's wife" do something. Here are a couple examples:

...his wife should call her back and blast her for breaking NC.
...She must then tell your wife the OM has agreed to tell her every time your wife contacts him
...The OM's wife must call you as well each and every time they contact each other
...They still need to complete the NC letter and get on MB
...The OM's wife must take advice she cannot do this on her own
...get her to push the point about a restraining order and notify her of the new contact
...get the OM's wife to have him write a letter of apology to you
I realize that many of these are from suggestions to you, but from what I can observe this indicates a bigger issue: namely CONTROL. Are you aware that you can not control your wife and MAKE her end this affair? If she is unwilling to end it, she will find a way to continue, be more sneaky, or just up and leave altogether! And are you aware you can not control the OM's wife at all? It would be very nice if the two of you could cooperate and keep each other updated about her H's and your W's movements, stories etc. but you can not MAKE her. She could decide to tell you "Bug off buddy! This is my marriage and I'll handle it like I want!" and then proceed to kick him out and divorce him (leaving him free for your wife)!

Disbelief, in the end, both your your wife and the OM's wife need to choose to do these things of their own free will and pursue them because THEY chose to do so. If your wife chooses to continue to be unfaithful, she may end the affair with this guy but also continue to see you as the guy who snooped and interfered until you drove away the love of her life and resent you for it, and your goal is to re-kindle love. So I would recommend strongly that with both your wife and the OM's wife you accept that you just can not control them or "make" them do anything. You can make a respectful request and explain to them every reason why you are making that request--so they can follow how you reached that conclusion. But in the end, think of your wife similar to a drug addict or an alcoholic; even if you remove all the drugs or booze from the house, if she's determined, she'll find a way to sneak out and get it. An addict doesn't recover until it is something THEY choose to do themselves and then THEY will need to learn how to police themselves.

So does that make sense? When you try to "make" your wife not call...or "make" the OM's wife sign up on MB, you may think that is a wise idea and you may even have very, very good reasons! It is conceivable that their opinion may vary. But it shows disrespect for the person to make them do it your way, and right now I don't think that's the way you want to treat your wife (disrespectfully). If I'm not mistaken, I think you'd rather show her, via your actions, that you can treat her lovingly and respectfully. Thus, when you do talk to either one of them, I'd suggest making a respectful request. Just say it right out loud, " I would like to respectfully request that you XYZ for these reasons: 1, 2, 3"

#3) Finally, regarding her moving out v. staying at sister's, and saying "the kids miss you" I would suggest this. If you are working on yourself, getting a life, becoming the guy you have the potential to be, ending the Love Extinguishers, and re-starting Love Kindlers, you will be better able to show her those changes if she does not move out. One possible solution might be to suggest a MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING. Let her know you understand she is considering moving out but in an effort to be financially responsible adults around the Holiday Season, what if we agreed to an "in house" separation and splitting the bills 50/50? Have her rent a room or something! Be creative. The point is that choice #1 would be have her stay home in your bed "no rush to make a decision", #2 have her stay home at least, #3 stay with her sister and #4 rent or buy something (because option #4 will carry legal implications such as a lease or mortgage). But no matter which choice you two finally select, please don't use "the kids miss you." If the kids do miss her, give them permission to tell her that themselves...it is between her and her children and it is their relationship. Using them as a tool in YOUR relationship (ie, using children as leverage in the adult relationship) is not cool for the kids or the adults. Guilting someone does not win love. Being LOVING and the kind of man she would admire and love...does!
 
#206 ·
Okay I have a couple of things that I would like to comment on, disbelief.

#3) Finally, regarding her moving out v. staying at sister's, and saying "the kids miss you" I would suggest this. If you are working on yourself, getting a life, becoming the guy you have the potential to be, ending the Love Extinguishers, and re-starting Love Kindlers, you will be better able to show her those changes if she does not move out. One possible solution might be to suggest a MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING. Let her know you understand she is considering moving out but in an effort to be financially responsible adults around the Holiday Season, what if we agreed to an "in house" separation and splitting the bills 50/50? Have her rent a room or something! Be creative. The point is that choice #1 would be have her stay home in your bed "no rush to make a decision", #2 have her stay home at least, #3 stay with her sister and #4 rent or buy something (because option #4 will carry legal implications such as a lease or mortgage). But no matter which choice you two finally select, please don't use "the kids miss you." If the kids do miss her, give them permission to tell her that themselves...it is between her and her children and it is their relationship. Using them as a tool in YOUR relationship (ie, using children as leverage in the adult relationship) is not cool for the kids or the adults. Guilting someone does not win love. Being LOVING and the kind of man she would admire and love...does!
Well she jumps right to 4. She feels she needs her own space. She wants to go get the legal paperwork done so she can get a mortgage approved and i do not have to change this one. She feels she can't stay at her sisters she doesn't want to rent she found a property that is also a good investment property. I have not used miss the kids I am letting the kids do that themselves. Buying over the holidays should take a couple months. We still haven't had a good solid financial conversation. One of us has been to emotional each time.
She discussed the property told me she had to get legal advice on a couple of things. She still fears i am going to pull some evil card on something with the kids like custody ??? That almost reinforces Fog because I just am not like that. She completly dismissed the notion that she was going to speak to a lawyer about D, only real estate. She followed up with you never know what 6 months from now will bring. I asked her what she needs right now. She said she needs a home. She doesn't feel at home .....in her home and she admits she created that. She discussed our differences that lead to some of this. I wish she had been so direct in the past. She somewhat took responsibility for not being direct.
I said something about there being another choice and she is just stuck that there is no other way to go. How can there be, this will never go away, it will always be there she says . She believes I am going to hold ( I think her it was the A) over her forever. The marital things she described all comes down to communication. I did not push, that was the most she let out since D Day.
She would not answer the question of wether or not she was still speaking with OM she rolled her eyes at me and said why don't you ask OM wife. Why don't you check the phone bill. I didn't really respond. This to me either means she is or he did do a NC via txt last night.
I suppose a couple months is enough to work on stuff. Even if she goes through with the purchase. If I fight it that would probably be worse. I was calm and kind tonight I reminded her I cared. I did not ask about our future I let her lead the conversation. I have learned.
She wouldn't look me in the eye when talking about the real estate.
I don't know if anything I do will open her mind to the possibility of recovery. What could I say to stimulate that thought process?
 
#204 ·
Affaircare,
All the lines you quoted I believe were written in reponse to me I have taken them as cautious advice. I watch the phone as self protection. If there are no calls ok but if there were many I would be a fool IMHO to put up with it long term. As far as the OM wife, I am just trying to make her more aware as you have for me. She had not gone on any forums and was not believing the possibility of the OM still lying. She had planned to write a letter from the beginning. I suggested MB. I told her what I knew but said she had to do what worked for her. As far as my W I wish I could control her hypnotize her and go back in time but I know I cannot. Your input has saved me from making futher mistakes judging by our interaction tonight we can at least talk again.
All conversations I have been holding with respect. I have reeled in those emotions. I still do not like my situation.
 
#205 ·
Disbelief. Some of the posts on my threads made me question my own decisions and beliefs unnecessarily. I followed my heart which could have led to disaster but it did not. You are making progress even if it doesn't always feel like it. Only time in your WW case will start her back toward you. After my wife made the decision to come back and in our first MC session, she stated she did not feel worthy of my love after all she had done to me which was why she was considering divorce before. It may be the same feelings your wife is. Having. Same for the kids. The fog causes some serious self centered thoughts as well. You are doing a great job! Start working on the things you know bothered her. My MC told me the way I handled myself and the changes I made were what turned the tide with my wife. He commended me strongly for what I did.

Stay the course there is hope.
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