I am getting divorced. My wife cheated on me multiple times. I have 9 year old twin daughters and they know divorce is coming. Do I tell them the truth....in a respectfull way? (that mommy was having sexual relations with other men?)
Or do I wait until they get older before telling them the truth.
They are too young to even begin to wrap their heads around it. It isn't their fault. Don't hurt them anymore. They love you both so dearly. Let them alone. And allow them to just be kids. Please.
You can maybe tell them when they are old enough to understand very well the concept of cheating, adultery. They are two young for that right now. However, always speak respectfully about your stbx in front of them. They need to respect their mother no matter how immoral her behaviour was in your marriage.
Why would you do that to the mother of your 9 year old daughters ? Why would you discuss sex with 9 year old little girls. Do you think that your anger with your wife is causing you to want to take revenge by bringing her down in your kids eyes?
I can understand your rage but they are completely innocent in all of this and everything needs to be done to shield them from as much of the emotional damage as possible. Out of love for your kids, focus on protecting them which is the natural role of a man anyway. Keep thier mothers image high in their eyes because it is best for them. They are the most important people in this. Please don't take your rage and hurt with your wife by doing such a horrible inappropriate thing. You will not be hurting your wife but you will do damage to your kids. A father talking to 9 yo girls about their mothers sexual relationships boarders on abuse and it can be construed as inappropriate sexual talk from a father.
They will never forget what you did and they will distance themselves when they get older and realize how inappropriate you were. They will know that you did not love them enough to protect them but your need to get back at their mother was more important to you. Please don't do this it is so bad on so many levels. I'm sure you will agree when you sit and think calmly. Posted via Mobile Device
Wow I disagree. I would talk to the children about it, but I sure as shooting wouldn't say "...mommy was having sexual relations with other men." Wow!
Here's why it is actually important to talk to the children. They may not be very old, and they absolutely are not developmentally old enough to have a full understanding of maturity and healthy adult relationships, but you know what happens if you cover it up or say "Mommy and daddy just can't get along"?
A) They think it is their fault. Kids pretty much universally think "If I was a good girl, mommy would have stayed" You do NOT want them going there so they need to have an age appropriate explanation of what happened to understand "why"?
B) They will think that "not getting along" is a reasonable reason to destroy a family and send their lives into chaos and hurt. It's not! They need to have some understanding of morality and a solid basis to figure this out in their child-like way.
Thus, I would definitely talk to the 9 yo old girls about this openly. Ask them if they have any questions, and if they are shy about it, just tell them the truth in an age-appropriate way:
"You know mommy and daddy are divorcing right? I wanted to talk to you about why. It's kind of private between mommy and daddy cuz it's grown-up things, but you know how mommies and daddies are supposed to love each other? When we get married we promise to only love each other, right? I personally believe that's right--mommies and daddies should only love each other and that keeps all of us safe huh? I don't believe mommies should have boyfriends or daddies should have girlfriends at all! Sadly your mom disagrees and we did argue about that because I wanted to be the ONLY one she loved. So see how that's a grownup thing and not anything to do with loving you or taking care of you? We will always do that!"
AC what would be the purpose of such a speech except to talk about your moral outrage with 9 yo girls. The loving bond of these kids with their mother must remain strong. She will be be the cutodial parent and they need to repect her even if her husband does not. He should keep it to himself if he loves his kids. They have plenty of time to learn about what mommies and daddies do when they are older what is the rush. Of course they must be told about the divorce and helped not to feel at fault. But to begin a morality lesson about extra marital activities is contrivance. The only reason an adult would say this to a child is to, rather selfishly, pontificate about the amorality of one parent.
The directive for parent in a divorce is clear: to let their kids know that they are still loved and both parents will still be in their lives; they are not responsible for the break up; and they will always have a home and a parent to take care of them. Any blame, revelation of indiscretion is for the purpose for the adults and not the kids. It seems selfish, irresponsible, immature and cruel thing to point out the fault of one parent. To point out how bad one parent is to say that the child is 1/2 bad since they belong to the deceived as well as the deceiver. Besides they love their mother.
When this oversharing on the part of one parent occurs, the other will probably point out the faults of the other to the kids in in retaliation. Good parents and sensible compassionate adults don't sink to this level. OP take the high road, don't give into your desire to bring down your ex and point out her moral faults. Only you know what your marriage was like, problems are rarely the fault of one party. Don't get into a slugfest with you children as an intermediary. Put yourself in the position of a 9 year old child, and feel what they would feel if you tell them about their mother who they love. Posted via Mobile Device
I second Catherine. She is absolutely right. Well said
It's totally ridiculous to tell them that there mother cheated. And it isn't necessary to justify the divorce as "mom and dad just can't along." You both need to sit down and discuss what is to be said and deliver the news together. Honestly, at their age the reason isn't that important. They are more concerned about what's to come...the future...the change. I am sure that your wife is an excellent mother. Why let the kids down? Why take more away from them. It does sound like punishment for something they have any control over. Why bring in another awful situation into what is already horrible.
And yes. Please reinforce that you both love them more than life itself. And that you both will remain in their lives. And more importantly that your divorce has absolutely nothing to do with them.
I think it would be great if your STBX and you could sit down together, come up with how you want to tell them, when, where and what to tell them, and do it together. That should be a joint effort I think.
As far as telling them about your wife cheating, I personally wouldn't. That seems like too much information for a kid, and I am seeing with my own eyes what my H's baby momma is doing to her daughter with that. It isn't pretty.
Just reassure them that it is between you and the W. The girls will find out eventually-and don't badmouth mom, they may feel that they have to "take sides" in order to keep one-or both-parents from getting angry. I never really knew my real father, and I only heard bad things my mother told me about him. Knowing later how vindictive my mother could really be, I always wondered if things could have been different, and if she was really telling me the truth. It's the one regret that I will have to live with.
Tell them, how you do this must be thought through. The last thing you want is she starts gas lighting you later on because you failed to tell the kids the truth about mommy cheating. Something like you love their mom, she has a boyfriend, daddy does not agree that moms should have a boyfriend when they are married..etc...
AC what would be the purpose of such a speech except to talk about your moral outrage with 9 yo girls. The loving bond of these kids with their mother must remain strong. She will be be the cutodial parent and they need to repect her even if her husband does not. He should keep it to himself if he loves his kids. They have plenty of time to learn about what mommies and daddies do when they are older what is the rush. Of course they must be told about the divorce and helped not to feel at fault. But to begin a morality lesson about extra marital activities is contrivance. The only reason an adult would say this to a child is to, rather selfishly, pontificate about the amorality of one parent.
This forgets (rather conveniently) some other responsibilities of parents. It would be entirely wrong to use the children as weapons in a fight with the cheating spouse. It would also be wrong to use the children as punching bags upon which to vent anger.
However: parents are responsible for the moral upbringing of their children. This includes teaching them not to lie, cheat, steal, and many other things.
Yet this advice suggests it is ok to teach your kids to lie. It validates cheating in a marriage by refusing to teach your kids it is wrong. It validate the normative idea that it's OK to run away from a marriage as soon as things spoil the fun you seek (look for an affair! It is the answer to unhappiness!)
In other words, instead of teaching kids how to be honest, you wish to teach them that lying is acceptable. Instead of teaching them that keeping a promise is of utmost importance, you downplay it by not mentioning it.
Snowstorm: you mention that this person's wife is 'most likely an excellent mother'? What kind of excellence includes the idea of breaking promises? What kind of excellent education is this?
My take on this: these attitudes are part of the reason why this forum exists in the first place! Instead of people understanding from a VERY young age that keeping your word is of supreme importance, we teach our kids that feeling comfortable is far more important: it would be uncomfortable to learn that their mother is doing something blatantly wrong - hence it is by far ore important to lie, twist words, etc., than it is to truly educate our kids in the basic virtues of honesty, trust and keeping promises - even of those promises are difficult.
In any event, its up to the person involved to make a decision about how much to tell their kids. We all offer suggestions and reasons.
I don't think you have to have a graphic and humiliating and judgmental discussion with your daughters regarding their mother's behavior.
However, a simple form of the truth, that their mother decided to not act like a faithful wife (worded better than this) is not what I can tolerate and won't. So we are divorcing.
There are several reasons for this.
1. It is the truth. Very powerful. Counters any crap lies she tells them. And she will be telling them crap lies.
2. It allows them to know it is not because of them.
3. Nine-year-olds are old enough to understand and appreciate being in the loop. Dissipates confusion.
The telling of the truth should be in context of fully protecting the care and love of those girls. It should not turn into a rant about their skank of a mother type thing.
Their ability to glean a decent lifestyle compared to an indecent one will be continually developed based on observation of both of their parents. Again, this is where the truth is powerful.
I said before, don't badmouth mom, (I was adressing the concern that the girls will blame themselves, and I was going to adress the cheating aspect, but I think that Eli-zor, Tanelorn and michzz pretty much nailed it) again, they will find out, and they will make their own judgments-and I don't think your STBXW will come out on the "winning" end with your girls later. If they do ask why, and they will, just tell them that their mother has "done some things that make it impossible for me to trust her, and because I have to trust someone to stay with them..."
The girls will find out, and when they're a little older, you can have a long talk with them about the circumstances leading up to this, and why you did what you did.
And, a darker thought: if you bad mouth mom, and she gets a scumbag lawyer, he could convince the judge that you're turning the girls against her, and she may get full custody of them because of your "harmful" behavior.
I said before, don't badmouth mom, again, they will find out, and they will make their own judgments-and I don't think your STBXW will come out on the "winning" end with your girls later.
This is absolutely important: it is always wrong to badmouth anyone (also not something you should be teaching your kids!)
AC what would be the purpose of such a speech except to talk about your moral outrage with 9 yo girls.
Actually I'd be happy to address this--it's a great question! Having an honest talk with the girls has literally NOTHING to do with expressing moral outrage. They are children. In their little child-world, home is life. Think about when you were younger than 10 years old--your life was you, your brothers and sisters, mom and dad, the neighborhood, neighborhood friends, and friends from school. Now all-of-a-sudden what they consider as their world is being broken up. Your mom and dad won't be living together, you might be asked to move or move back and forth, your brothers and sisters may or may not all come with you (in this instance they would probably stay together but who knows!)... and the only thing you hear about WHY is stupid stuff like "Well mom and dad didn't get along." Yet if the child doesn't get along with kids at school or some neighbor kid, do they get to move, leave mom and dad behind, lose brothers and sisters and grammas and grampas and have the whole world fall apart? NO! That kind of explanation--covering up and pretending and saying it's okay for grownups to do what kids are told NOT to do--is confusing. It make their already broken up world even more unstable and even more disconcerting because they can't understand it.
On the other hand, kids do understand doing things that are right and wrong. They do understand having to get a spanking or having a punishment after doing something wrong. They do understand that we all do stuff that's wrong. So if one parent explains it, in age-appropriate way, they can say, "Well this makes me sad" or "This makes me mad!" but they at least understand, in their childish level of understanding, what happened, why, and that they didn't cause it. This is not "moral outrage" at the parent who was unfaithful. This is saving the children from a lifetime of hurt thinking they tore up their parents!
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The loving bond of these kids with their mother must remain strong. She will be be the cutodial parent and they need to repect her even if her husband does not. He should keep it to himself if he loves his kids.
Again, actually this is a HUGE assumption that many/most disloyal wives make. US Census Bureau figures show the number of single father homes continuing to rise rapidly. The number of single father homes rose by 25 percent in just three years, accounting for all of the increase in single parent families, while the number of single mother households remained almost constant. In 2009, Working Mother magazine reported that 2.2 million mothers in the U.S. do not have primary custody of their children. And the magazine reports that, over the past decade, the number of fathers awarded custody of their children has doubled. So assuming that "she will be the custodial parent" is frankly just a misconception. If he was stable in the marriage and a dutiful parent, he has absolutely just as much chance of getting sole custody and will most likely get at least 50/50 custody. And you can BET that the unfaithful mom would try to justify her affair by saying less than flattering things about daddy!
So the loving bond of these kids with their father must ALSO remain strong. HE is the parent who stayed true to the marriage, is offering them the stability of staying in their home, in their beds, with their friends in their school in their neighborhood! HE will have some custody too (if not primary custody), and he is just as capable of being the custodial parent if not moreso because he's not in the fog of an affair! And the girls very desperately need to understand basic life lessons like "when you make this choice, it hurts a lot of people" and "we are family and we don't give up on family."
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The directive for parent in a divorce is clear: to let their kids know that they are still loved and both parents will still be in their lives; they are not responsible for the break up; and they will always have a home and a parent to take care of them.
The directive for marriage is just as clear: "...to forsake all others and love only each other for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health until death parts us." The reason adults make this promise is precisely to save their children from experiencing what these girls are being forced to go through. Thus, they need some signpost in their life to explain this, and things like honesty and "right and wrong" ARE that signpost.
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Any blame, revelation of indiscretion is for the purpose for the adults and not the kids. It seems selfish, irresponsible, immature and cruel thing to point out the fault of one parent. To point out how bad one parent is to say that the child is 1/2 bad since they belong to the deceived as well as the deceiver. Besides they love their mother.
There is no reason at all that the loyal spouse couldn't say "You know, I'm a daddy and I'm imperfect too. I worked too long and mommy said she felt lonely, but I made the wrong choice. The way to fix something when you do something wrong is to admit it, say you're sorry, and then stop doing it. If you lie more, it just makes it worse huh?" See this is PRECISELY what parents do need to teach their children!
In addition, if I were to use your logic: "...they belong to the deceived as well as the deceiver. Besides they love their mother" does that mean that a female in a relationship has carte blanc to behave in any way she wants, but because she donated genetic material children are supposed to be taught to love her? So she can beat them with boards, burn them, starve them, and hit them...but because she donated an egg and they are half her genetic code, they would have to "love her"? I'm sorry I disagree. Parents, CAN NOT just behave in any way. They have a duty and responsibility to their children, and if they do not perform that duty it is reasonable to teach the children to protect themselves from harm and to say "No honey, beating you with a board is wrong." I realize it's not popular to hear that abandoning your children to pursue your lover is wrong, but the fact is that by making that choice, it harms the child. When faced with "harm the child" or "fulfill my personal pleasures" I would hope that a mature adult parent would choose their own child! But when they don't--telling the child that it's okay is like doubling the abuse!
Finally, it seems rather an inconsistent double-standard to me that a mother can abandon her children, hurt them, tear their family apart, and destroy their world but she's considered "a loving mother." Whereas the father would be considering the well-being of his very young daughters, telling them about "right and wrong", giving them a model of stability and commitment, and being honest--but by doing so HE is being unloving. That makes no sense...and I am a grown up! Imagine what that would be like for a child.
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