8yearscheating

This was my las post on the toehr thread I had going that was getting too long.

I tried to talk with my wife this evening about some of my fears. She will not discuss at all her feelings about what happened in the A. She just keeps saying she won't discuss it at all. I wrote the follwing and put it away locked up because I don't want to threaten the progress we have made so far.

When I make a statement about something that is bothering me and you don’t respond at all, I imagine the worst possible and my fears explode even more. For me, it’s like having a monster in the room I can’t get rid of. Your reaction that you won’t be beaten up or bullied into answering hurts even more because it feels to me like you don’t care how I feel. I went to far tonight and I realize that. It will take time for me to work through my feelings. I feel like I’m doing it alone. You won’t comment on how you feel which feels to me like your hiding your feelings from me – what I know is precisely what created the fertile ground and I don’t ever want to get to the point again where you don’t feel like you can talk to me and have to go to someone else. I know you want to just want it over and leave the past in the past and for most part, so do I. Some of it won’t let me have peace unless I can understand that everything you showed in the past that I thought was love was real and not a lie for my benefit. Right now I don’t know what was real. Hiding all of my feelings all of the time leaves that monster in the room. I don’t want to make you feel guilty , beat you up or bully you. I just need to understand the parts I don’t – some of the missing pieces in that puzzle I can’t put together and then throw in the trash. My life with you almost ended and I’m scared to death it could happen again. My hypervigilance without knowing what happened gets worse because I don’t feel like I know what to look out for. I need to find peace and confidence. I have forgiven you. That doesn’t relieve you of the responsibility for your actions and the fallout from it. You need to help me as much I am trying to help you.

For the WW - Is this something I should give time to work out? It has only been a month since d day. Would this be pushing too hard? SHe obviously does not want to face up to the pain she has caused yet. And guys - don't get on your "what it should be" horses. If I had pushed as hard as some of you advised, things would be worse.

The major mistake I'm about to make is calling it quits. SHe refuses to answer any question. Today I told her there was one question I had to have answered. I had to know how long in our 26+ years of marriage it went on. Something someone said to me who had talked to her led me to believe it was over 16 years and not the 8 she told me. When I asked, she gave me her standard response that if I had to have an answer to one question, then it would be another and another question and all she wanted to do was move forward. She would not tell me how long. I told her it was the one question I HAD to know because it meant what was happening in my life for 16 years and that I couldn't live without knowing. She told if that was the case we were done.

Am I being too inquisitive? This question REALLY bothers me. Someone give me strength to move past it.

michzz

She's bluffing you. And admitting it was more than 8 years at the same time.

Draw the line in the sand but be prepared to part with her.

She's hiding information.

Eli-Zor

She is hiding a lot and your worst fears are probably true, I don't recall in your posts if she is in counseling, if the counselor is not one that supports full disclosure, truth and honesty then fire him/her.

For you your wife has to be totally honest for the marriage to go forward.

CH

An Affair for a brief time (weeks to a month or two) I could probably handle, but a long term affair over 8 years or more....

If you still want to work on it, get her to tell the truth but it's a double edge sword and she is right, that one question will lead to another and so on. Once you know how long, you're gonna want to know how much, when, how, is there more than one, could there me more than one if she lies about it, etc....

The questions will never stop, trust me on this. I let my wife know up to the point where she had to stop with the questions and just accept that it happened and move on. If she would have dug more, it wasn't a pretty picture because there was alot she doesn't know about and it was probably better that she didn't.

But if one day she does ask, I will tell her. It won't be pretty but I owe her that much. And if it's too much for her then that'll have to be her decision to make. Every once in a while she'll ask for more details and it'll just dredge up old painful memories, but I tell her if she asks.

My affair was only 4 months long, but let's just say in those 4 months I lived out years of doing things that I always wanted to do and I won't elaborate on what those things were.

8yearscheating

Appreciate the responses. I told her that I wouldn't discuss again until we met the marriage counselor on Weds. I think he is the one that told her not to divulge more if she didn't want. If that turns out to be the case, I will ask if we can see someone else. The only thing I'm asking to know is how long, when - generally - when I was home or travelling and where - with the limitation I don't want to know if it was at our house. I'm not sure if I can live without knowing this minimal level of info because I feel like I can't protect myself at all if I don't know these basics. I know I can't follow her and know what she is doing 100% of the time. I just need some peace so I can throw it in the trash and move on. I just told her I'm still willing to move forward and we must talk with the MC weds. I fell as if she can't be at least that little bit honest, there will be a monster in the room of our relationship forever.

Affaircare

What she wants is to have committed adultery for 8+ years (and more likely 16 years) and have no consequences. She wants to be able to "get away with it" and not have to take personal responsibility for the choices she's made.

I wholeheartedly agree that if the counselor says "Don't divulge more if you don't want to" ...go to a different counselor! In a marriage, the whole POINT is intimacy with another person, and to be truly intimate there has to be transparency. That means I am "see through" enough to let you see the real me, warts and all. And don't fall for the claim that she needs some degree of "privacy" I throw the flag! Privacy=closing the bathroom door when you dress or go to the bathroom; aka modesty. Secrecy=not revealing the True Me and purposely hiding from my spouse. There is no room for secrecy in a marriage!

I generally explain to Disloyal Spouses like this: "You have all the pieces of the puzzle and you know what the picture is when you put all the pieces together..and the picture makes you sick because either you miss the OP and you're trying to put them out of your mind, or you are ashamed that you did that! Meanwhile though, your spouse does not have all the pieces of the puzzle and they are scrambling to try to make heads or tails of the picture. Right now, without all the pieces, all they see is the worst parts and they fill it in with EVER WORSE!" And to the Loyal Spouses I explain like this: "Put yourself in your spouse's shoes. You did something REALLY, really stupid like embezzling...and you were caught. Now you feel like such an idiot for doing it and want nothing more than to sort of get past it and prove you can be honest again. But it's in the newspaper, all your friends talk about it behind your back, and your spouse constantly asks questions about it! 'When did you steal the first $100? What were you thinking? How long did you steal?' and all the while you know in your heart that you've see the mistake you've made and you've changed for real! But no one will let it go..." I think using those analogies, each spouse can see the position in which they are putting their own spouse.

Then I recommend for couples who are working on rebuilding that they make an agreement that will work for both of them. Reach the Mutual Understanding that the Loyal Spouse will ask only one or two questions each day and agree that the LS will discipline themselves to ONLY those 1-2 questions. Simultaneously, the Disloyal Spouse agrees to answer those one or two questions fully and honestly. After they answer, no matter what it is, agree to hug each other and say, "Thank you for being honest" so that honesty is safe. Then if you have to...go apart so you can digest what was said. Finally, reach a Mutual Understanding about how long you'll ask questions--like 30 days or 60 days. This let's the Loyal gradually get some of the puzzle pieces they need (and they're free to stop before 30 days if they're ready), and it let's the Disloyal know that it won't become the Spanish Inquisition and it won't be held over their head for forever. There WILL be an end in sight!

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

Infidelity Rage

I can hear your love and desperation for her in your words. My heart bleeds for you because I know your pain.

When I found out about my husband's emotional affair (or so I thought), he acted much like your wife. Until I caught him in the physical affair he wouldn't talk about what happened and was very defensive about it. I don't want to point blank say that she is still seeing the other man, but I would keep your eyes open wide.

You are a strong man for doing what you are doing. You deserve everything you need and want from her right now. Remember, she has done this HORRIBLE thing to you and now, she is the one who should be falling all over you to save this marriage ...not the other way around.

I agree with what someone else said...make an ultimatum and be prepared to leave. It may just be the slap of reality she needs. Good luck to you!

DanF

As the person who was cheated on, you have the right to know everything about how the affair came about and exactly what happened.
If your spouse is not agreeing to that, then she is likely hiding stuff.
A lie can be prepared and delivered. However, once the questions start, the lie usually unravels and the truth will be exposed. Refusing to answer questions gives her the ability to keep the lie available and the truth hidden.
Ask all questions as they come to you and if she won't answer them, she's hiding something.

F-102

You are NOT being unreasonable, and she is NOT being honest with you. Bring it up to the MC, and if she(strongly suspect that the MC is a woman)tells your W that she doesn't have to admit it, tell, DON'T ASK, your W to see a different counselor. If W refuses, then maybe the mistake you are afraid of may not be so bad after all.

How2BelieveAndMoveOn

8 years - I just hit 4 months yesterday, and the monster definitely still exists. And unfortunately, the monster only seems to get bigger...its a terrible catch-22 for us because we dont want to take steps back from progress we've made, but by leaving the monster unattended and allowing our hurt/anger to build, it will only become more ferocious when it does come out. My monster came out yesterday and it definitely set us back, so I'd advise you to address the monster sooner rather than later...and if she's not ready to address the monster, then all she's doing is feeding it.

8yearscheating

First MC session was good in the sense that the MC convinced my wife she would need to answer questions from me and deal with her guilt or ti would never move forward. She opened up but the news was worse than I expected. 20 years, not 8 with it starting with 2 strangers at 0 years and then moving to former friend for 19. It happened every time we had a serios fight or I left town. Before and and after her work on occasion. She said it was infrequent which I haven't gotten tot he details yet. I've decided I'm going to let his wife know it was an 18 year sexual and EA. Then call him 15 minutes later and tell him if he contacts my wife to tell her his BW has been notified I will go public with copies of his sexting messages and news of the affair to everyone I can think of. If he tries to continue, I'll turn him into a woman. I'm going to trash his life as bad as the two of them have mine and relieve myself of the moral dilema of her not knowing becauase I witheld the information. I still can't jsutify in my mind how she could continue for so long and still tell me she never stopped loving me. I also am not sure I can ever believe she will never do it again, even though she says is comitted to staying faithful. Former WW, am I being an idiot thinking she can? I remained calm through the session and have not blown out since though I have been taking time out to elt off steam so I don't attack her. ANd I did thank her for honesty and finally opening up. Even though I said I wouldn't, I am beggining to wonder if can work through it.

marco100

Unfortunately, in the psychological sense, you have never actually been "married" to your wife, at least from her perspective.

She's been cheating on you one way or another, or wanting to, for your entire relationship.

She sounds like one of these chicks who get married for reasons other than actually being in love with their husbands--you know--you're the financially stable "good guy" etc.

Before reading your most recent post, I was actually going to say that 8 years or 80 doesn't really matter. Isn't 8 plenty to know what you need to do?

Yeah it sucks having your mental visualization of your entire life disrupted in this fashion.

On the other hand there is a value to finally and once and for all living in the real world.

No two ways about it, you married a wh*re. She will never change, and there's nothing you can do about it at this point.

So you either accept what she is, and stay married to her; or, you get divorced.

There are no other choices. These are the only two. Difficult? Yes.

But you do have a choice.

Initfortheduration

Your wife is manipulative. She says she won't answer your questions because "First it will be one question. then another then another". My friend, you need to take control. First off completely separate finances. Cut her off completely. Order groceries on line. She has cuckolded you and believes that she is in complete control. After you cut her off. And she finds out that she has no money. She will come to you and you simply tell her, " If I give you money now, you will only ask for more later". Naturally she will have a fit. tough sh!t.

Calling it quits is not a mistake. She has taken away your security. You need to take hers away. This will at least bring it to a head. Then all the cards will be on the table. You need to get up in her grill. Not violent but direct. Not needy either. I would tell her very calmly, "I tell you what. You want money. I will pay you like a wh*re for information. You just tell the truth and I will pay you cash" You need to rock her world, pull the rug out from under her. You have tried the needy way now man up and use the hammer. What do you have to lose?

Eli-Zor

Sorry this is hurting you, you have to tell her that the hurt is deep and she has no concept of what you are going through, Do so in a calm manner. this is only for her to know how deep the betrayal is, do not hold this against her

At least the truth is starting to come out out now , there will be more to come , place , perhaps your home. She must trust you in order to tell you all. Do not ever loose your cool.



An affair is an affair and they hurt. disclosure to his wife is required and yes it is part of your recovery.

For your peace of mind I would normally recommend you do not call him, however if you need to bollock him do so it is liberating, do not threaten him, let him know your wife has told him all. Leave it at that, he must not guess your next set of actions.



You wife from now on must let you know if he calls you, if he does you call him straight away. then expose him to all.

It is very important she works with you on this and does call you if he tries to contact her in any way. You are now a team and she must be on-board.




Your concerns are real, you are venting carry on.. she must prove by her words actions and deeds that she is fully committed to you. She has to take what is called Extraordinary Precautions from now on to ensure she does not lapse, if you and your wife needs more info on this go to the marriage builders site

Vent more



It is good you remained calm, as for going forward give her the opportunity to prove herself, she must know that this is going to be a full time effort for the rest of her life with no slip ups.

I recommend she registers on the marriage builders forum, there are a lot of WW on there going though rehabilitation. You as her BS will be able to read the responses.

This is together time, love her as you have in the past you to will heal

Best wishes.

8yearscheating

Tanks El-Zor and to the others, I hope in your own situations, if you wna to work it it out with your wayward spouses, your advise will kill the chances you may have. I do want to work it out - 90% because I still love her and because D would make financially miserable for both of us. If you haven't read my other thread, you should. We have made more progress in a very short period time than anyone who would go on the attack. If we did divorce, it would stay amicable to prevent the attorneys from sucking us dry. She had already agreed to one attorney at cost of $2000. Two bottom feeders would cost each 10K to 45k EACH. Look at yourselves - while your not responsible for what they did, I'm sure there was fertile ground for it and you were a lot of the fertilizer. My wife has found her love for me again. Holds me and comforts me when I break down. Is in my bed and having sex with me in a loving - not whorish way. Can you say the same? She's broken it off entirely with the OM. Only time will tell, but I feel we are on the road to recovery. She has also agreed to be evaluated for Bi polar which I think was serious contributing factor.