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Does staying with a cheating woman forever make a man a Beta

41K views 277 replies 63 participants last post by  WhiteRaven 
#1 ·
Title says it all.

I have been thinking I should have at least kicked her out for awhile when this all started, now well what is the point it's been 2 years.
I displayed weakness from the beginning, yeah yeah I was the big man who told her if it ever happened again she would be out. The stud who did what was better for my children, I didn't beat the crap out of the OM, I laid down some rules, boundaries the things I said I needed to stay married to her.

So life goes on.

Once a Beta forever I guess.
 
#2 ·
Oh good grief. What you did does not make you a beta.

It can take a much stronger, more alpha, man to do what you did. It's easy to just get pissed, scream and holler and throw her out. It's a lot harder to deal with the hurt and fix your marriage with a level head.
 
#4 ·
that does not make you a beta...that makes you a real man who is willing to see the greater of his family over himself. and i hope its a reminder to your wife that she should be damn lucky to have a real man at home...instead of stud who is only good for one thing....here is my question to you has she repented ?
has she become the woman/mom/wife you need ?
 
#5 ·
It depends on how you define 'alpha', which is something that even men who deem themselves as such disagree on. It's just a word. The main trait of an alpha when it comes to decisions is being decisive and taking the lead. If you did anything resembling that, then good for you.

The main thing is, did you do the right thing? Sounds like you did what you thought was best. Keep making it work.
 
#6 ·
And the first 3 commenters offer..... SUNSHINE! You'll glow when you walk.

Female hypergamy makes women tend to want to mate with the most attractive, "alpha" male that they can get. Note that I did not say that it causes all women to do that, just that it subconsciously pushes them in that direction, probably with a bunch of evolutionary urges that I'll not list or debate.

So what happens when a wife cheats? Well, she has found someone whom she, by default, finds more "alpha" than the guy she is cheating on. So even if you're alpha, after you've been cheated on, you aren't the most alpha guy in your wife's life. She proved that, at least to herself, when she took the other man into her.

Alpha traits include demanding loyalty from their women, while not necessarily giving it in return. They can get away with dating multiple women because they're so rich / handsome / charismatic. Standard girl dream is to "tame" and alpha, and get him to commit to her and settle down.

But let's go back to the "demanding loyalty" part. After the wife has hiked up her skirt for the man she thinks is hotter, and gets pumped-n-dumped, or has her affair discovered, and is feeling all scarlet letter-ey, the husband either takes her back, or doesn't.

Taking a woman back after she has demonstrated that she was disloyal to you is not a move of strength. It does not show that you have superior character. Rather, it shows that you will accept INFERIOR character.

And to maintain your peace of mind, you have to demand "full disclosure" from her. Going forward in the relationship, you have to spend your time and resources verifying her fidelity. Instead of doing your thing and her following along behind you because you're SO DAMN INTERESTING, you always have to look behind you to make sure she's still with you. Double-plus-un-sexy.

Xenote can equate being a family man with being a good man and calling that alpha. And it can be. But being a good provider is a BETA trait. And being a good provider to a wife who "provided" for somebody else just ain't alpha, no matter how you try and wish it to be true.

MattMatt can say that beta = ******* who banged your wife, but he is making the argument that the guy your wife found more attractive is the inferior man. That guy is definitely an *******, and he has flawed morals, but you can't call him beta compared to the husband who should have gotten fidelity and is willing to settle for taking back his morally flawed wife.

Elegirl... well, she probably just asked herself, "what would I tell him if I was his wife?"
 
#11 ·
Note that I did not say that it causes all women to do that, just that it subconsciously pushes them in that direction, probably with a bunch of evolutionary urges that I'll not list or debate.

As a biologist, I would be enthralled to hear your list.

So what happens when a wife cheats? Well, she has found someone whom she, by default, finds more "alpha" than the guy she is cheating on. So even if you're alpha, after you've been cheated on, you aren't the most alpha guy in your wife's life. She proved that, at least to herself, when she took the other man into her.

Either you've cheated on your husband or you actually have no idea. Case in point is my affair. My husband is a pretty big guy. Not fat big either. He rides with an international motorcycle club. He was captain of a private jet and flew the likes of Stephen Tyler, the owners of the NY Mets and countless others around the world. The xOM was a lawyer and I had no idea he was until a month after we met. It had absolutely no bearing on my affair with him. As a matter of fact, he openly admitted to me he was scared of my husband and what would happen if we were found out. Sorry, but your pseudo-science doesn't have this pegged.

Alpha traits include demanding loyalty from their women, while not necessarily giving it in return. They can get away with dating multiple women because they're so rich / handsome / charismatic. Standard girl dream is to "tame" and alpha, and get him to commit to her and settle down.

:lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl: Where on Earth...?

But let's go back to the "demanding loyalty" part. After the wife has hiked up her skirt for the man she thinks is hotter, and gets pumped-n-dumped, or has her affair discovered, and is feeling all scarlet letter-ey, the husband either takes her back, or doesn't.

Taking a woman back after she has demonstrated that she was disloyal to you is not a move of strength. It does not show that you have superior character. Rather, it shows that you will accept INFERIOR character.

Based on what? Your say so? Show me data to support such a bullsh-t line and I will gladly read it.

And to maintain your peace of mind, you have to demand "full disclosure" from her. Going forward in the relationship, you have to spend your time and resources verifying her fidelity. Instead of doing your thing and her following along behind you because you're SO DAMN INTERESTING, you always have to look behind you to make sure she's still with you. Double-plus-un-sexy.
To a point in the beginning, verification is needed by the betrayed spouse as a way to begin building trust. It's as simple as that, and if a wayward spouse has an issue with that, then they truly aren't remorseful for their actions.

Basically, your entire argument just sounds like that shaggy blonde haired guy in 'Good Will Hunting'. You spout off a bunch of stuff you've read, but you have no idea of the true workings of the human condition. Do you like apples?
 
#28 ·
Oh, and love=pain, this is what I've got to say to you. As a woman who chose to have an affair and is working on reconciliation with my husband, I'd say you're perfect for who you are. Period. Please don't get hung up in the Greek alphabet as related to packs of wolves because you gave your wife a gift by wanting to attempt to reconcile. To me, that shows extreme inner strength.

By the way, did you know that those studies on wolf packs are mostly invalid? I mean, they studied wolves in captivity when they did this alpha stuff. Real wolves that live in the wild do not exhibit the tendencies they spout. In other words, it's bunk.
 
#32 ·
They are only metaphors. Alpha / Beta are just references to traits for ease of discussion. Though some either do not get it or do not want to get it.

You do not need studies to live your life. They may or may not validate your observations. Agendas come in all forms. Studies can be interesting data to augment observations and real life experiences.

It once was believed that women suffered from hysteria. One can have all the pertinent data and make all the wrong conclusions. Also true of observations. Not everyone is a critical thinker though. I learned that on the road less travelled.
 
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#31 ·
But, but, but....Jane Goodall said in her book that she preferred silver back gorillas who horded more bananas. She's obviously saying she prefers an alpha-rilla. So, your exWW fell for an alpha-rilla? Oh, dear what will Mr. Kay say on his blog about you, sir?


So sorry.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Once a Beta forever I guess.
Forever only if you choose forever. What does the alpha leader of a company do when others don't cut the mustard. He gets rid of them and finds replacements that better suits the needs . Treat your spouse the same. Don't kid yourself my man, if you ain't running the MFing place, she is and getting bored with you by the minute. In the relationship, men are either the CEO, Senior Partner, or Stock Clerk/Maintenance boy/gofor charged with supplying needs, keeping up the facilities, and schmoozing the Queen. Pick which you want to be. There are no other positions open. Forget the 50:50. It fantasy.

Edit: Women don't go find an interesting man and cheat on you. They lose interest in you and go find an interesting man.
 
#37 ·
Male or female, I don't see how anyone can stay with someone who has committed physical infidelity. Every part of my being finds the concept abhorrent. If I had tried, I would have ate the end of my Glock.

Obviously there are people on this very thread that not only feel different, but have made a success of reconciliation.

Be true to yourself. If you believe you can forgive it, you aren't being "beta".
 
#48 ·
I don't disagree with anything you said, Ripper. The reality is that in my mind, taking someone back that has been defiled by another is weakness. I understand that it requires a tremendous effort to reconcile but I still view it as weakness.

I believe that a woman needs love and to be cherished from her husband. A man needs to feel love and respect from his wife. In OPs case, the wife has not demonstrated either and in fact, disrespected him in the most emasculating way possible (by having an Affair).

I don't know all the reasons why someone would be Alpha or Beta but suffice it say that the main difference is probably self confidence. If you're feeling like you couldn't go on without your SO and make a decision to reconcile along those lines, then I could understand feeling very Beta. If you make a decision to reconcile for reasons other than your own insecurity about being able to survive without your W, then maybe it's a more Alpha action. Who knows. Say you do it to keep the family together or whatever other reason you may deem noble.

I'm not sure why a W would stray or why OP's W did that but it's easy to believe that the other man was more Alpha or desirable in some way. He possesses something in the WW's mind that her H didn't posses. If that weren't true, why do it.

If it were me, I would quickly initiate the divorce process and over the time it takes to become final, I would gauge the remorse and willingness of the WW to change and do the heavy lifting. If she seemed genuinely sorry and wanted another chance, I might likely date her again after the divorce and start over.

The relationship would have to be built over again anyway so you may as well start it up from scratch. If you both fall in love with each other all over again, then you can always get remarried. Hopefully, I'll never need to put this into practice but it's what I would do, or at least what I'd like to believe that I would do.
 
#45 ·
Love=Pain,

As you know you have too many threads, i.e., the pain is unending. I don't know your story but you once wrote:

I am thinking it may be possible to go through life with someone you are not completely in love with, my WW and I get along very well (except for her cheating episode) the sex is great, we have 4 beautiful children and we have been together for a long time, so why not stay? Do I need to be fall over, head over heels in love to stay married? I do love her I would never want anything bad to ever happen to her (except if she cheats again then she can go rot) but I don't love her like I used to and I really don't think I ever will.
The underlined part is really key. Whether or not you feel beta or alpha doesn't matter that much, those are only adjectives which are relative.

Are you feeling progress to overcoming the degradation of your love for your wife. Do her words have meaning again or is the distrust still strong?

Are you having good sex post hysterical bonding?

As for punishment, what transpired for her? Were there no consequences?

Was divorce ever on the table?

Do you have an urge for a revenge affair?

Do you fantasize about casually handing your wife divorce papers, and enjoying the sight of her weeping at your feet?
 
#49 ·
These are great questions. I"m going to answer them, pertaining to me, perhaps it might give some insight to the OP as to how his R is going compared.

I do get very annoyed at being called beta and weak by people that have divorced. I don't attack people for choosing divorce, because I can respect that people and situations are different.

The underlined part is really key. Whether or not you feel beta or alpha doesn't matter that much, those are only adjectives which are relative.

Are you feeling progress to overcoming the degradation of your love for your wife. Do her words have meaning again or is the distrust still strong?
Distrust is still strong, but not because of any actions or words from her, just because it's normal at this stage still one year out from dday. She tells me everything, dresses conservatively for work, got a new job, bought new clothes, thanks me constantly for letting her still be in my life and tells me sorry she hurt me if she notices something upsets me. Pay s constant attention to me, calls me at lunch and texts on breaks etc.. etc..


Are you having good sex post hysterical bonding?
We are back to having the great kind of sex that we had when we were younger, instead of getting the duty sex and the OM getting the good sex, I'm getting the good sex again.

As for punishment, what transpired for her? Were there no consequences?
She lived with her mother on an air mattress for about a month, while I got a new bed, changed the locks on the doors and talked only divorce. She lost the respect of our children, her father and my family. She left her job and was embarrassed to those friends. She damaged my relationship with her younger sister by involving her and caused her pain. She had to listen to me tell her how she turned out just like her mother and how all the accusations of me being controlling now only prove that I was justified in being concerned about her fidelity. Basically having to feel like a whoo and a sluuu.. without me needing to say it. Comments like 'friend? do you f all your friends?' Her damaged image in my eyes, she knew I adored her, and now I was disgusted by her.

Was divorce ever on the table?
Yes, it still is if she ever shows me any sign of not being kind to me again.. if I notice her going cold, treating me cruel, not accounting for her whereabouts, any of the signs that showed me she was losing interest in me and no longer putting effort into my marriage. I don't even need to know she's cheating, I just need to know she's not being good to me.

Do you have an urge for a revenge affair?
Comes and goes, but it's fantasy and I wouldn't act on it because I prefer the high ground and not lowering myself to lying and cheating. Usually the fantasies are with someone else that has a partner, all the more reason I would never act on it. I know how cheating can mess with lives.

Do you fantasize about casually handing your wife divorce papers, and enjoying the sight of her weeping at your feet?
I've had the fantasy about divorce when I'm angry, but if anything the thought of destroying my wife wouldn't be the motive, it would be the freedom from having to deal with the constant reminders. When you R, you're keeping a big trigger around, as opposed to divorce where you don't have the constant reminders. I would never want to destroy my wife, even if she did crush my soul. It's just not how I'm built. She's the mother of my children, I've known her since she was 14, we've been together since she was 16.. I don't hate her.
 
#46 ·
Love, are you asking the question because you feel some dissatisfaction at where you are with R?

I read a couple of your threads, you mentioned the various betrayals, her saying if you can't get over it then you're done (She may have changed her tune since then but please fill us in on that)

Has she been remorseful since? Is she still working her butt off to fix this?

No, never Beta for staying and giving her a chance. But if she's regressed, clearly not putting in the work and relapsed into the old habits that got you both into so many Ddays and you're simply scared to pull the trigger now.

Then yes.
 
#47 ·
Do I need to be fall over, head over heels in love to stay married? I do love her I would never want anything bad to ever happen to her (except if she cheats again then she can go rot) but I don't love her like I used to and I really don't think I ever will.
LongWalk makes some good points about this quote of yours.

I have some further questions for you.

Do you definitely remember feeling "head over heels in love" just prior to her affair? Many people feel head over heels in love for their first couple years together but then settle into a kind of love that doesn't have quite that "crazy" feeling (the head over heels feeling) after that. It's still pretty wonderful, but definitely different than when it's more new.

Could it be that it's not the love you feel that's so different after her affair, but your ability to feel safe, to trust her? Because THAT is totally normal. They have to EARN back that trust, and it takes a long time.

Did you two spend time with a good MC that you both liked and who has experience in working with couples who are dealing with infidelity? If you didn't, it could be that you've got a lot of trauma that you haven't "worked through" yet. If you're thinking about the affair on a daily or near daily basis and not talking to your wife about it, then you're keeping it bottled up and that's not good - it's an intimacy killer - and it means there's more "work" to be done and the affair is still coming between you. You may get tired of bringing it up, and she may not spontaneously apologize because she thinks you don't want her to remind you of it, so regular counseling sessions are a good way to make sure this stuff gets dealt with.

Did you both read (and mainly, did she read) the book How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? I read it and highlighted parts I especially wanted my husband to pay attention to. It's an excellent book - short, easy to read, and it helps unfaithful partners finally start to "get" what we're going through (most of them don't get it).

As LongWalk suggested, there may be some unfinished business that has nothing to do with alpha or beta crap. If you go on about your life without getting this stuff aired, and if she isn't encouraging you to express these thoughts and feelings whenever you are struggling with them, you will not heal.
 
#50 ·
That was good, Russell.

Could a key watershed in R be that eventually your fWW will be able to defend herself in an argument about something unrelated to the affair and you will be able to accept that it is not betrayal, that conflict will occur without bringing your marriage to an existential crisis.

To be able to fight and make up would be part of a healthy R, preferably the making up would be in bed. Total surrender is part of compromise at times. But if your wife can't ever call you on your BS, then that's not a marriage either.
 
#51 ·
I think at first the BS would be looking for any reason to get upset with the WS, and the WS would be looking to jump through hoops to keep the BS happy. Eventually that dynamic changes, and you can disagree and argue and make up. We've had a few times where we've had a problem, then talked through it, then had sex, yes. That's part of the healing and rebuilding of intimacy is sharing and honesty. Because they strayed and you were loyal doesn't give a license to be right in every argument for eternity. She can call me on my BS, and I can call myself on my own BS. If I know I'm wrong, I'm not afraid to say I'm sorry and explain what I was thinking, why I got upset, what happened so we can talk through it.
 
#57 ·
OP-

sounds like when you did post, you were having a horrible day or week. Have you talked to your wife and told her how you feel?

Is she doing the remorseful things to help you?

I do hope you find some happiness soon. Will she go to IC with you?

If she is not moving heaven and earth for your marriage, why not?
 
#58 · (Edited)
For me it’s not about alpha or beta. I’m pretty much a beta guy in that I have the qualities women say they want in a marriage.

When I was single I wanted to be the guy that women used like a piece of meat and tossed aside. Instead their parents loved me and they wanted to get married.

These qualities (i.e. stable, good companion, provider and father, etc.) become even more important to women as they age. Seeing your grandkids grow up as the two of you grow old together is important.

I’ve been married 35 years and our kids have turned out great. If I found out that my wife had a PA at any point in our marriage I would get a divorce.

This may be a poor way of expressing it but it would drive me crazy if I paid full price for sex and some other guy got it for free. That wouldn’t make him alpha and me beta, he just got a better deal.

While important to both men and women, sex tends to be more important for men while companionship and stability are more important for women.

Her PA would mean that I spent my life giving her what is most important to her while she gave what is most important to me to another guy. Saying it was only sex would make matters even worse.

It might be cutting off my nose to spite my face but I wouldn’t want her to have the reward of a faithful wife. I wouldn't want to hold her hand while we walked into the sunset.

I’m afraid this would be me:

99-year-old divorces wife after he discovered 1940s affair - Telegraph

There is no right or wrong answer as far as R or D. You should do whatever makes you happy or the least unhappy.
 
#59 ·
Sounds like you're not getting over it.

Do you lift weights? eat right?

It sounds like right now, you have more of a problem with your perceived weakness to your own inaction than her cheating.

I think this is a good thing. Be preoccupied with yourself, look behind the faceplate and examine the gears that make you tick. Figure out what it is you don't like and fix it.

And IMO, you are free to leave her any time you like. You do not have to get over her cheating whether it's 5 years after or 10 years. Do what YOU want. Not what you think others want you to do.
 
#60 ·
A man does what he thinks is right and sees it through. You did that - don't belittle yourself. You reserve the right to reassess and if it is ever not working for you - you can leave. Staying or leaving means squat in terms of alpha, beta, omega - it is having the strength to do what you think is right despite the obstacles. Hang in there....
 
#62 ·
Interesting thread.

Because I like to read, I got both of the books recommended to BHs on this web site, NMMNG and MMSP, and managed probably a total of 20 pages between the two books before I was bored to tears reading a bunch of BS, dime-store philosophy.

Does that make me an Alpha or a Beta? Because I really am dying to know which little corner of humanity you want to shoe-horn me into . . .
 
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