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Does staying with a cheating woman forever make a man a Beta

41K views 277 replies 63 participants last post by  WhiteRaven 
#1 ·
Title says it all.

I have been thinking I should have at least kicked her out for awhile when this all started, now well what is the point it's been 2 years.
I displayed weakness from the beginning, yeah yeah I was the big man who told her if it ever happened again she would be out. The stud who did what was better for my children, I didn't beat the crap out of the OM, I laid down some rules, boundaries the things I said I needed to stay married to her.

So life goes on.

Once a Beta forever I guess.
 
#69 ·
In giving my opinion, I'm going to generalise and say that most women do prefer the "alpha" type to have their "fun" with and have them be, (unconsciously) the donor of the sperm to sire their children.

However the "beta" is always going to be the fall back guy, because they are good and solid and reliable and they usually desperately love (or need) their wives and/or family. So utterly reliable and dependable it's a shoe-in.

The cheating wife (if she has a modicum of intelligence) ultimately knows that deep down the alpha is just a no-good fly by night, and hence the oftentimes snot and tears when faced with the uncomfortable, kick-in-the-arse reality of a divorce.


When the chips are down, she really doesn't want the loyal, good provider and the actual father of her children to leave her stranded, because she knows deep down that the "alpha" will leave her high and dry as soon as the next sexual conquest appears on the horizon. So utterly unreliable and undependable that it's a shoe-in.
 
#70 · (Edited)
:iagree::iagree:


If you think about it this makes sense. Before DNA women knew who their biological kids were and men didn’t.

Women wanted a stable good provider to increase the chance that their children would survive. The reason that she didn’t want her mate to fool around with another woman is that he might give the OW resources and thereby decrease the chance of her kid’s survival. The sex act itself with the OW wasn’t that important. Kids he had with the OW could starve.

Men wanted to use the fruits of their labor to ensure the survival of their own kids, not some OMs kids. That's why a faithful mate and the act of sex were important to men.

I read that wives are 7 times more likely to take back their cheating husband than the other way around. If you think about it this also makes sense.

The WH is offering his resources to ensure the survival of his wife’s kids (she knows they are hers).

The WW is asking her husband to support kids that may not be his given her record.
 
#72 ·
Love=pain ......... so here you are, two years after D day and you are still questioning, wondering and probably worrying. Has it been worth it? And after 5 years, 15 years, 30 years will it have been worth it? You said that you took the high road, wanted to be a "man" about it. I would disagree, sorry. To me the "men" on this board are those that cut it, quick and decisive. Don't hear them coming back here asking and wondering if they should of done it differently! What would you do if the Dr. said you had Cancer? Would you start by eliminating something stupid from you life, say, Cheeseburgers. Wait a couple of years to see if that had any effect and when it didn't would you then decide to only smoke between 8:00 AM and Noon? Of course not, you'd want to get of the Cancer immediately!!
 
#92 ·
Love=pain ......... so here you are, two years after D day and you are still questioning, wondering and probably worrying. Has it been worth it? And after 5 years, 15 years, 30 years will it have been worth it? You said that you took the high road, wanted to be a "man" about it. I would disagree, sorry. To me the "men" on this board are those that cut it, quick and decisive. Don't hear them coming back here asking and wondering if they should of done it differently! What would you do if the Dr. said you had Cancer? Would you start by eliminating something stupid from you life, say, Cheeseburgers. Wait a couple of years to see if that had any effect and when it didn't would you then decide to only smoke between 8:00 AM and Noon? Of course( not, you'd want to get of the Cancer immediately!!
I don't agree everyone is different, men that cut and run have no hope for their future so they move on(IMO), I stay because I have hope things will get better. It is a toss up some on this board speak about trying for many years and just leaving no longer being able to take it anymore, others have had success years later they are together and better than ever. If there ever was something worth the gamble, worth your time(even if it ends up being wasted) it is your marriage and family. I will say I could go on without my wife, I know the kids would make it I would make it but I do think we are stronger together, if that changes then I would leave what would be the point then your are wasting your time.

I have to admit...this thread title pisses me off....
I get tired of everybody pigeon holing every body else into freakin categories that have no bearing on anything!

My husband chose to allow me to stay...my husband chose to love me in spite of my infidelity...my husband chose to be a compassionate, forgiving man. Who the hell cares if he was an alpha or a beta? He is my man!

And might I add...I cheated...I am not a cheating woman.

If I am a cheating woman...he better kick my ass out!

Love=pain ???I have always liked you a lot.??but god I hate this thread.
Well that is a honest focused opinion, you hating this goes to prove your commitment to your husband, marriage and your R. From many of your threads I have read you have worked very hard to make sure Mr. Adams knows without a doubt that he is your "alpha" (for lack of a better term). Helping to rebuild a man's confidence(after infidelity) is a surefire way to get rid of those beta feelings. I try not to make general blanket statements about anyone I was asking a question about how I feel, not every man feels that way and not every woman would look at their man that way.

love=pain (like the name btw) I will address your question under the assumption that you want an honest answer "pure vulcan logic" as it where and not a "shoulder to cry on" type of response to make you feel better about your decision to reconcile. So if I am incorrect in that assumption please simply skip over my inane ramblings:) and ignore me.

As to my answer, I think it depends on who or better yet where you ask the question, for instance very few men that decided to stay with a wife that cheated on them are gonna come out and say "Yep i'm just a big ol' sissy for staying with her.";)
Having said that, I do believe a lot of people, even a suprisingly large amount of women tend to view betrayed men who stay as being weak or passive. I don't have any statistics off hand to back that as it is merely an observation I've made from my own life experiences and discussing the topic with others.

Most people on this forum, being made up largely of betrayed spouses and former cheaters don't seem to feel that it makes themselves or their husbands "beta" or if they do they are not very likely to say that here, what with their spouse reading the screen behind them.;)
However when the topic has come up in casual conversation in "real life", I have generally heard negative things said about guys who took back their cheating wives. Usually it pertains to an assumed sexual inadequacy or the man is casually referred to as a "chump" or other such hurtful suppositions are made about his "manhood" both figuratively and literally.:(

Not knowing a whole lot about biology I can't really give you a physiological reason for why so many women seem to be attracted to "alpha/bad boy" types. You would have to PM Machiavelli for that.:) I personally think it at least partially a societal/environment issue and not completely genetic. For instance younger girls have traditionally obsessed over boys who could barely be descried as male at all let alone "alpha", just look at Justin Bieber. How do they explain that? ;)

I don't feel that it necessarily makes one less of a man to reconcile, in fact I would go so far to say that a man staying with a truly repentant wife could even be an example of GOD's mercy and love that is freely offered to all of us. I don't know what spiritual beliefs(if any) you hold but in the OT of the Bible GOD describes himself multiple times in the terms of a betrayed husband with an unfaithful bride(Israel), whom he longed to forgive and be reconciled with if she would only repent of her (spiritual)adultery and return to HIM. So there is at least in my view a righteous way of reconciling that is inspiring in it's mercy, humility and forgiveness. But it is most certainly not for everybody. And you do have every right legally, morally and even biblically to divorce her if you so decide.

I won't whitewash the facts, from a purely societal point of view a man taking back his adulterous wife is largely considered to be undignified. As far as I know, it has always been that way and it's not likely to change any time soon. I guess what it comes down to is can a man still be happy/content with his wife and marriage knowing that others (family/friends/co-workers) may think less of him for taking her back? I suppose that is something that each individual must decide for himself. And it only adds another layer of how vile adultery truly is and what destruction it leaves in it's path. Whatever you decide I say good luck to you.:)
You know as I have read and reread many of these responses I do think my question was more of the in her eyes will I be viewed in that way. I don't think any of my friends that know our troubles view me as weak or at least they have never said it, and her parents I believe they are ecstatic that I have not filed for divorce so no real issues with the way anyone thinks about me, except with her.

The other thing I have thought about is this; is worrying whether staying after her infidelity a sign of weakness really more of a alpha trait, after all does a beta man really care about his strength or weakness in that way?
Finally I truly believe a successful man has to have both of these traits, you must be able to adapt in order to survive no one way will work every time.
 
#74 ·
I don't believe Staying makes you a beta I think to burying your head in the sand and rug-sweeping the problems in the marriage away is what makes you a beta in my opinion.


If taking calculated risk and confidence are the hallmarks of an alpha then one could conclude that any BH choosing to stay are alpha in there thinking
 
#77 ·
Title says it all.
Women are those who decide, by "voting" with their (y), which men are alpha, beta, delta, gamma, etc. You can work towards getting a higher vote tally if you like, but they are the ones who decide.

For a long term relationship, particularly marriage, you need to display a mix of alpha/beta. Monogamy itself is a Beta display and actually lowers a man's natural testosterone levels.

I have been thinking I should have at least kicked her out for awhile when this all started, now well what is the point it's been 2 years.
I displayed weakness from the beginning, yeah yeah I was the big man who told her if it ever happened again she would be out. The stud who did what was better for my children, I didn't beat the crap out of the OM, I laid down some rules, boundaries the things I said I needed to stay married to her.
A huge percentage of guys who get cheated on display weakness in the beginning; even guys without kids, even guys who aren't even legally married, yet. How could it be otherwise, when you think you've selected someone who would not do this?

I have no problem with someone taking out the OM, but you've got to be willing to accept the consequences vs the satisfaction. It's no good to stay together for the kids if you're in the pen the whole time they're growing up.

So life goes on.

Once a Beta forever I guess.
If you're a guy who is sticking around to raise his kids right, you're a Beta. That's a good thing, depending on the quality of R.
 
#81 ·
love=pain (like the name btw) I will address your question under the assumption that you want an honest answer "pure vulcan logic" as it where and not a "shoulder to cry on" type of response to make you feel better about your decision to reconcile. So if I am incorrect in that assumption please simply skip over my inane ramblings:) and ignore me.

As to my answer, I think it depends on who or better yet where you ask the question, for instance very few men that decided to stay with a wife that cheated on them are gonna come out and say "Yep i'm just a big ol' sissy for staying with her.";)
Having said that, I do believe a lot of people, even a suprisingly large amount of women tend to view betrayed men who stay as being weak or passive. I don't have any statistics off hand to back that as it is merely an observation I've made from my own life experiences and discussing the topic with others.

Most people on this forum, being made up largely of betrayed spouses and former cheaters don't seem to feel that it makes themselves or their husbands "beta" or if they do they are not very likely to say that here, what with their spouse reading the screen behind them.;)
However when the topic has come up in casual conversation in "real life", I have generally heard negative things said about guys who took back their cheating wives. Usually it pertains to an assumed sexual inadequacy or the man is casually referred to as a "chump" or other such hurtful suppositions are made about his "manhood" both figuratively and literally.:(

Not knowing a whole lot about biology I can't really give you a physiological reason for why so many women seem to be attracted to "alpha/bad boy" types. You would have to PM Machiavelli for that.:) I personally think it at least partially a societal/environment issue and not completely genetic. For instance younger girls have traditionally obsessed over boys who could barely be descried as male at all let alone "alpha", just look at Justin Bieber. How do they explain that? ;)

I don't feel that it necessarily makes one less of a man to reconcile, in fact I would go so far to say that a man staying with a truly repentant wife could even be an example of GOD's mercy and love that is freely offered to all of us. I don't know what spiritual beliefs(if any) you hold but in the OT of the Bible GOD describes himself multiple times in the terms of a betrayed husband with an unfaithful bride(Israel), whom he longed to forgive and be reconciled with if she would only repent of her (spiritual)adultery and return to HIM. So there is at least in my view a righteous way of reconciling that is inspiring in it's mercy, humility and forgiveness. But it is most certainly not for everybody. And you do have every right legally, morally and even biblically to divorce her if you so decide.

I won't whitewash the facts, from a purely societal point of view a man taking back his adulterous wife is largely considered to be undignified. As far as I know, it has always been that way and it's not likely to change any time soon. I guess what it comes down to is can a man still be happy/content with his wife and marriage knowing that others (family/friends/co-workers) may think less of him for taking her back? I suppose that is something that each individual must decide for himself. And it only adds another layer of how vile adultery truly is and what destruction it leaves in it's path. Whatever you decide I say good luck to you.:)
 
#103 ·
For instance younger girls have traditionally obsessed over boys who could barely be descried as male at all let alone "alpha", just look at Justin Bieber. How do they explain that? ;)
He’s the most successful male closest to their age that they know of. The contrast between the success of the Beib and the average male at 16 years of age (when he hit stardom) is ginormous. The contrast between a successful businessman at the age of 35 and a 35-year old rockstar with issues is not quite as vast a gulf.
 
#85 ·
First off women cheat with Alphas, Betas and Jerkovs and everything in between for their own reasons.

Running off a predator after he has been having sex with your wife is essential but a tad late as well. The predator may have already gotten what he came for. No one said he was the better man. But he got the wifes vote. He was good enough to have the husbands wife risk all just to be with him sexually. To many guys that is the ultimte win. The wife values having sex with him more than she cares about her husband. He runs off to find another woman. In many circles being threatened by a jealous husband is considered a win. Great sport.

A quality man is not interested in winning a contest of being called the better man. He has to search inside himself for that. He is the only vote that matters. But he also needs to know that as a quality man there are many good women who could love him and be faithful to him. Having children complicates this. But it does not decide it alone. Why would he continue to invest with this woman? He is the only one who can answer this. he needs to do that from a sense of strength and not weakness.
 
#90 ·
If you're not happy with your life and your decisions, I believe you may be making yourself a beta... whatever negative qualities you believe that may reflect upon you.

What will it take to make you feel complete? Note that I'm not asking what it will take to make you happy...we don't get to be happy all the time. But why don't you feel in charge of your life? And what steps can you take to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and feel that you are?
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#93 ·
No one is ever happy with all of their decisions, you base your decision of the information you have whether it is right or wrong is for another day.
As for feeling complete that may never happen no matter where I am, but I am in charge of my life, I can leave and be fine.

I am confident that I am the man in most areas for my family, I take care of everything, I pay for everything and when there is a problem or something needs to get done my family looks to me to take the lead, this infidelity issue is the only area where I am not so confident.
 
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#94 ·
I don't think you believe she is remorseful and made amends. She may truly have done so, but you don't feel like the scales have been balanced yet.

I guess you need to find a way to either let that go or work toward some goal that will balance those scales for you. It's kind of late to ask her to do much, is it not? I really don't know, but I think you've already done what you could to strike that balance.

Now, I imagine it's on you? The more it bothers you and you show her, after you told her you accept what is, the more, "beta", you will look. I don't care for those terms either and am not an, "alpha".

However, solid boundaries that you stand for in almost all cases, are what can up your confidence. I don't think you need her to do as much as you need to do for yourself. Once you grow some, you will be able to make many decisions about this, "marriage", of yours.

I put that in quotes because of what you write, not what I think. I am not here to judge, but to analeyes. hahaha

You need to get out there and find what you truly want. Then you will know what to do. I don't think this is over. I don't think it will be until you find out what you want out of life.

Unfortunately, I think that includes separation. That's dangerous, though, since most women can more easily find a mate than most men.
 
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#95 ·
I don't think you believe she is remorseful and made amends. She may truly have done so, but you don't feel like the scales have been balanced yet.
This is the crux of the matter, it seems to me. The feeling that the WS and the OM (in this case) have "got away" with something and made the BS feel and look weak and foolish in the process.

If the WS is truly remorseful then they have in fact not got away with anything. They are paying. You can understand why Mrs. JA reacted to this thread with indignation, both at the implication that JA might have displayed weakness in not kicking her out and at the idea that she might have escaped consequences for her betrayal. She is paying for this every day in her own mind and heart, as the truly remorseful do. This does not make her BH a beta or whatever.

As far as the OM is concerned: Blow his life to bits if you want to.
 
#98 ·
Maybe I am looking for a more humble slobbering over me with gratitude type of thing and I know that is not the type of person she will ever be, but a little "god" worship goes a long way.
It is good that you know who she is. Otherwise how can you measure her remorse.

Does she ever look at you in a way that you feel that she just happy to see you? Happy that you have not left her?

In some way your question actually provides an answer. You have become stronger as person so that you don't feel second best and that confidence will hopefully make the right impression on her.

If you feel that she is patronizing you, you should divorce.
 
#100 · (Edited)
I don't think he should be defined as "Beta" if he decides to reconcile....
but THE WAY he handles R, the way he chooses to make the WS pay for all the wrongdoing, the way he is around her during R.....definitely shows if he's Beta or not.

One who doesn't go for HARD consequences is definitely Beta.
One who is afraid to make WS go by his conditions is definitely Beta.
One who is afraid of WS's reaction during R is definitely Beta.

One is afraid of the worst truth regarding the affair an is not willing to know every single detail is definitely Beta.
So it's not about the reconciliation itself but it's HOW he deals with it that makes him Beta or not.
 
#102 ·
The labels aren't the issue. Here at TAM, we seem to like to label things to understand them better. It's okay when it doesn't do harm. Sometimes we can't help but to hurt someone's feelings. I just think l=p doesn't have that problem, to tell the truth. I think it's more that he is finding a stumbling block in what he thinks he got when they got back together. I don't think she did anything really wrong since the R. I think things changed. He seems like he feels he is plan B. I don't think she wants him to feel that way. On the other hand, I don't think she feels anything but justified in her choices, and sorrow for hurting l=p.

ETA: You know? I don't think it's even that he thinks he's plan B. I really think that was an overstatement.

I think she has made amends as far as l=p has asked. I think she has done the work. Sometimes, that's not good enough. He has something that is bothering him about all of it and it will not go away.

I don't think he even wants her to do anything. I would think women would understand this better than men.
 
#104 ·
As for the alpha/beta thing, like Entropy said, beta qualities are actually good. However, if that's all you have, then you're a typical "nice guy" and will get walked all over. Alpha = Powerful, Beta = Caring.

As for forgiveness, being forgiven is only seen as weakness by someone who is not truly sorry. They feel like they have gotten away with it, by deceiving the forgiving party into letting the act go. Chances are that they'll do it again, too.

However, for someone who is truly repentant and who throws themselves on the mercy of the offended party, forgiveness is seen as powerful. The repentant party sees the strength needed to make such a decision and how the forgiving party effectively carries the burden of the offending party’s action in that moment. Because, when truly forgiving, you have to totally open yourself up to the pain the act has caused you and then find a way to let it go. True repentance is similar. You open yourself up to the pain you caused others. Either way, both people end up feeling one another’s pain, to a certain extent. That’s a whole lot of pain. But it's necessary for fully moving on together.
 
#106 ·
However, for someone who is truly repentant and who throws themselves on the mercy of the offended party, forgiveness is seen as powerful. The repentant party sees the strength needed to make such a decision and how the forgiving party effectively carries the burden of the offending party’s action in that moment. Because, when truly forgiving, you have to totally open yourself up to the pain the act has caused you and then find a way to let it go. True repentance is similar. You open yourself up to the pain you caused others. Either way, both people end up feeling one another’s pain, to a certain extent. That’s a whole lot of pain. But it's necessary for fully moving on together.
That is a beautiful description, MSP. Thank you. :)
 
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#107 ·
OP, I love these alpha / beta discussions.

Here's my suggestion, as one who stayed for the kids, rebuilt a successful marriage, and continues to work on it's weaknesses.

Look into yourself. Find your strength, worth and purpose within your self. Don't try and find them in your wife. Once you truly get that, and reposition your wife within your life accordingly, a lot of stuff falls into place. Whatever greek letter you use to label it! :)
 
#108 ·
I don't think he can feel the same for her as he did. I think you are touching on the subject, Wazza. I think he needs to think about his options. Does he want to continue with the woman he knows will never be the one he fell in love with all those years ago?

Maybe that's good enough for l=p? Maybe he needs more?
 
#109 ·
If he continues with his wife trying to pretend there was never infidelity, I think he will fail.

If he decides to divorce, and then look for someone else who can fill that void, I think that is pretty risky too. It all depends on how realistic his expectations are.

Anyone you meet is imperfect. If you accept that, accept it is not your fault, and then set your expectations accordingly, things get better.
 
#111 ·
Gotta say I love the back and forth between 2ntnuf and wazza.

Lots to think about some great points, this thing called R sometimes it's like finding your way in the dark you just have to feel your way around when nothing is clear.

Thinking about everything I will say my wife has had flashes of greatness in the things she has done and said but she has also had some brain farts as well. Sort of like my golf game I can hit some beautiful shots which gets me pumped up and excited just wanting to play more and the next hole I want to burn my clubs, it can be very frustrating.

Mostly it has been the same as before(we do talk more) other than her cheating and maybe that is my issue, at times I feel so damaged by all of this and she can just go with the normal routine.
I am in the dog days of this R still dealing with anger, hurt and being unsure of myself and my marriage, 2 years is just the beginning when you are trying to reconcile the last 10 years of your life.
I am going to start lifting with my youngest good for him to build some life habits and for some man time with Dad, if anything we will throw the weights around and tell fart jokes that should help.
 
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#112 ·
l=p, that's why I was doing that. It was a concerted effort to gently take two sides so you could see your choices more clearly. They are serious choices to make.

I do think you need to get some perspective. Sometimes, that does mean a break away from the marriage. Sometimes, it just means a weekend away.

No one can answer that, but you. I don't want you to throw away all that you have worked for, unless it truly is best for all of you.

There are many ways to handle your life. I don't want you to make a huge mistake, if it can be avoided. You have to go into all of this with eyes wide open.

yeah, the nice guy in me wants to help. I'm a sap as well as being f'd up.
 
#113 ·
I don't think so. Honestly I'm surprised this thread has reached 9 pages. I don't know why as I've only come to it like twice, but it should be obvious it depends on how the BS/BF handles it. I don't think alpha or beta matters much. I mean women have to deal with the exact same thing.

I've seen guys who stay with their cheating wives and I'm just like "Dude, you handled that perfectly." On the flip side I've read threads where the BS leaves and I tell him "A+". I've also seen the reverse of both, some being more "alpha" and some being more "beta". I think it takes as much strength to stay with a cheating woman as to leave. Maybe more so since guys who leave seem to be able to move on or at least start dealing with it quicker (although that's just my opinion).
 
#115 ·
Not sure if these are for me, I think so being I started this mess.

Has your wife gained weight? In the beginning when I was working out every night to wear myself out just to get a couple of hours of shut eye she started working out with me so she lost some weight, then she gained some back and now has started to lose it again but she has never really gained more than 10 or so pounds. She is close to the weight she was when we were first married.

Does she make an effort to be attractive to you?
Well yeah but she also is very vain been through close to 100 hair dressers(I am serious no exaggeration) since we have been married(to make my point) so she always works hard to look attractive whether it is just for me probably not mostly it is for her.

Does she initiate sex?
I think many women don't or very seldom and she fits into that category she may come up and grab me (in that special spot) once in a while not sure if that is initiating or not. Doesn't matter anything more than 2 days and I am going crazy.

Does she cook meals you like?
HAHA well I do all of the cooking(95%) the only time she does is if I am working late or if she is off of work, I cook way better so the kids like it when I cook.

If you cook, does she eat it with enjoyment?
I would think so I cook something different for her (she like lots of veggies) many nights as she does try to watch what she eats.

Does she take refuge in watching television?
No when we watch TV I usually pilot the remote (is that a guy thing) she will read some if she doesn't want to watch what I have on
I will have to ask what these questions have to do with the topic at hand, not really sure, except to see if we have a stable domestic life which I think we do.
 
#117 ·
You know what else is beta, feeling the need to justify your choices by calling other people beta and yourself alpha.. needing to convince yourself that replacing your cheating wife makes you somehow more of a man than someone that chooses a different path. Sounds like you're insecure, you should read the 'macho mans guide to epeen' and another good read is 'how to lift weights to prevent alphas from stealing your womenz' by charley atlas.

Sounds like someone is over compensating... You should get IC, or at least buy a Harley and a giant truck with dual wheels and an extra cab.
 
#119 · (Edited)
Alphas don't even use computers, they think the mouse is a foot pedal and they just smash the keyboard with a closed fist. They sure wouldn't post on an Interweb message forumz that has pink as the theme color.. A true alpha would print out the page and try to color it with crayons.

Edit: Correction, I just realized an alpha would never use crayons, they would use permanent markers, and would probably just write in the 'quick reply' right on the monitor. So we'll never actually see a real alpha in this forum.
 
#131 · (Edited)
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