I have been thinking I should have at least kicked her out for awhile when this all started, now well what is the point it's been 2 years.
I displayed weakness from the beginning, yeah yeah I was the big man who told her if it ever happened again she would be out. The stud who did what was better for my children, I didn't beat the crap out of the OM, I laid down some rules, boundaries the things I said I needed to stay married to her.
The way people are editing within quotes may look pretty with all the nice colours, but makes it hard to pick out the key ideas and engage with them.
JLD, I thought maybe I was convincing you of the flaw in your reasoning, but then your last post to me seemed to lose it all.
I wrote a long post here, but decided not to post it. I will simply say that your ideas look very nice in theory, but they show clearly that you have no idea how an affair plays out or what it feels like. The simple question I asked you - how do you know the affair has stopped - is a fairly basic example you couldn't answer. And given its the starting point of your process......
Here is some homework for you if you really want to understand. This is a couple who both posted. They work at the same college, where the wife had an affair with a student. This thread pics up with the second D day, post 167 contains a potted summary of the affair to date and post 231 is where there is a third D day. Lies just keep being revealed.
Husband is trying to work with his wife, she is just continuing the affair. Here is her thread from that time. She was not only lying to her husband but to the whole TAM community:
This is a couple who are working on reconciliation. It might give you a feel for what is involved. Try and empathise with Mr Mathias's position May to November. He was making effort, she was dissing it all. Again, all the progress made in fixing things happened when he stopped being nice.
These guys are reconciling, or were last time I communicated with them.
Is this to me Wazza? One thing I will say is, I do that to emphasize what I am talking about. It's an easy way to pick out points I want to make and not confuse my words with the quote.
If you really try to follow what was said in prior posts and then include those with my thoughts, it becomes a little clearer. It truly isn't brain surgery, but it takes a little effort to stay with it.
Wazza, no one has to reconcile. Everyone is free to divorce. The original question was does staying make a guy a beta. I don't think so. I think, depending on the circumstances, it could make him a better man.
I have not read the links you gave. I was supportive of MM until I read that her affair was with a student, and that she did not cut it off right away. I stopped being supportive then. In my no count opinion, if I were MM's husband, I could not reconcile. Firstly because it was with a student (massive power differential), and secondly because it continued so long and there was not complete truthfulness right away. Contrast that with a woman who has a ONS and immediately goes home to confess it to her husband with utter remorse and transparency, willing to comply with any demand he makes. Both cheating, vastly different circumstances all around.
My opinion is just my opinion. Nothing else. It has no weight, no bearing on anything, certainly not any kind of standard for anyone. Please, feel free to ignore.
I can ignore. But I could ignore all of TAM. I come here to engage with ideas in the hope it helps others. I wish desperately I had access to this sort of shared experience when I had to cope with my wife's affair.
It's hard to say "I think you are really wrong about this detail" and be positive. So I was trying to break it down with small, clear steps, and examples. Firstly to communicate my ideas, and secondly to better understand yours.
Some of your ideas I strongly agree with, and this discussion was to me right on topic. Underpinning the notion of alpha, beta, etc, is the notion of a man having his own sense of worth....being secure to use your phrase. How you get there is the important bit, and that's where we disagree.
I'd say check out Dogman's thread on his dad. Interesting in a way.
Do what you are comfortable with, not what you can justify. You have a marriage of convenience now. Love, respect, trust- miss them coz they are gone forever. Pity is all there is in this marriage. Pity for yourself, your WW, your kids.
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