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Atheist / Agnostic Betrayed Spouses

25K views 268 replies 49 participants last post by  GusPolinski 
#1 ·
It seems like those with religion can grasp onto that and pray and trust that their god will deliver them from the pain of being a BS. What can atheists and agnostics use? You can't pray to science. You can't expect the Universe to deliver you from your pain. I think I'm feeling jealous of other's faith even though I have no desire to have faith in a god myself.
 
#38 ·
Why the big LOL after Krishna?

I lived in a temple for a while. Beautiful religion and culture.

But it was there in the temple (after being raised evangelical Christian) that I am just not into any organized religion or god.

And "The Universe" is real. No quotes needed.

lmao.
 
#142 ·
that_girl,

The first thing I want to say is that I am so saddened to see what this thread has become. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about--that somehow we have got to find a way to be LOVING and demonstrate love by showing an interest and being respectful, not by slinging hurtful words around or demanding that everyone think like you do! *sigh* I feel like we have so far to go as a species and as Christians, that it's disappointing.

BUT I wanted to take time to threadjack this train wreck and answer your questions if you don't mind! I thought it would be fun!

My religious background is probably the most diverse you'll ever meet in your life, because I find spirituality fascinating. I grew up in a super-typical Lutheran household... I call that "christian-by-default" because we aren't in a country that has another state religion, but we didn't really study or live a christian life or anything. Know what I mean?

I knew my whole life that what my parents spouted off about religion was a bunch of routines and didn't really MEAN anything to them, so I pretty much just ignored their words. I felt a personal connection with God when I was young, and that never really went away--I just didn't understand it very well. I had friends of every race, color and creed literally, and most of them didn't really understand their own religion a lot, but I grew up near a Bahai temple, and that was ... amazing beyond words.

Then when I graduated, moved out and went to college, I figured I would figure this out for myself, so I went on what I call my "Search For God" years. I attended and studied several major religions, (not denominations) and I studied Wicca because it's the original wise woman, right? Pam can tell ya, I'm a studier! LOL I liked and felt pretty comfortable with Judaism because it was like my version of "God the Father" and it was a very interesting religion to study. So I met a handsome Jewish guy and agreed to convert so we could get married.

After our divorce, I did it again--searching for God--and this time I went more into the new age concepts, philosophy, formal theology...that kind of thing. It's part of the way I got to know my current Dear Hubby!

Sooo...I answer your questions and Pam's questions with utmost respect in my heart. I didn't laugh about Krishna. I think it's a worthy study to learn about how similar Krishna and Christ are, and I personally love Krishna as the lover prince and the way he honored the 16,000. Of course, I'm also pretty much a hopeless romantic so that fits!

I did a large LOL because I'm a very happy person and I do laugh a lot. At the moment I was writing, I was thinking 'She's not saying she wants to learn about how to have faith or god and I threw out the first untypical god who came to my head, which made me giggle because everyone always jumps right to THEIR god first. Know what I mean?

As for the "Universe" I actually did that out of respect just like I do capital C Christians and lowercase c christians...and capital God and lowercase god. To me, there is the universe with a lowercase u that means the planet, stars, and whatnot just physically existing, and there is the "Universe" which is like a name. It means "things aren't just random and there's some greater scheme of things here". Christians with a capital are folks who truly believe and then try to live a life that is as close to godly and loving and mimicking Christ as a human being can (since we're all imperfect), and christians with a lowercase are the big denomination thingy that include Protestants and Catholics who are "not something else." Some believe, some don't, some live it, some don't, some use it like a big rock, some like a social club. Finally there's God, my name for divinity, and god which is "I'm not sure exactly what name you may call your deity, but it's not just a human being or coincidence so it would be something above an angel and not just nothing."

However I do see your point: for other things I consider a name, I didn't put "quote marks" around it. I just wanted to draw attention--this isn't the cosmos here or gravity ... it's the grander scheme that some people name "The Universe."

So I hope that clarifies, and I do realize we may likely disagree on some things, and I'm okay with disagreeing. I don't expect people to "think like I do" or "believe like I do" because then you wouldn't be YOU, and you are unique and value in the universe. My main hope would be to be able to converse with each other respectfully and both be able to hear the other with an open heart. So far, Pam has been GREAT at doing that!! I greatly admire and respect her for that!

Regarding the rest of this thread: (shaking my head). Sad. Long way to go.
 
#43 ·
I'm a Christian and feel the need to defend my faith since others feel the need to attack God. I was going to respond to others individually based on what they said, but I'll try to fit it in to one response.

Know why people are evil? Every bad thing that happens is because of free will, and because we would not know good if there were no bad. We wouldn't know God's compassion if we didn't have suffering. We wouldn't know His amazing forgiveness so that we can witness His spectacular love if we didn't have the chance to screw up, big time, over and over.

One of you said that you hate the word "freewill". Well, if it weren't for freewill of these evil people to do evil things, then you wouldn't have the freewill to reject a God that you don't believe in. Wouldn't that suck if you were forced to be a Christian and believe in God when you really don't want to? God has to give freewill, or else He's just a dictator who is controlling us.

But he doesn't want to control us. He wants us to choose on our own. In fact, he WANTS us to flourish in life, hence the commands he gives. The commands are not to chain us in. They are to set us free. The things that he protects us from are things that would hurt us or others i.e. murder, stealing, lying, getting drunk, premarital sex, cussing, breaking the law. Homosexuality is one of them, and I'm not sure why yet, but I will have faith and find out one day.

Also, to respond to the person who says that God lets children starve and die, guess what? These children get to experience eternal glory before many of us do. They will never have to get their heart broken, experience divorce, being backstabbed by a friend sleeping with their lover or attempting, worry about bills, all the things that suck about the responsibility that comes with being an adult. They get to go straight to heaven as innocent children. They will never know evil.

To the OP, I am very sorry if I have offended you by using your post to make a case for God. To respond to your initial question, God gives me much comfort through my friends and family. Your friends and family LOVE you. They are there for you much more than you realize until you just tell them you need someone. Cry on their shoulder. Spend the night with a girlfriend eating chocolate and watching sappy movies and crying together. Buy a book that helps people get past an affair. Go out and do things. Meet people. Just go have fun. You have the freedom to choose again, to choose a spouse who will be so in love with you that they would never consider an affair. Just go be you. The best healer of all, however, is time. It really does work! You will get through this, and you will be okay!

You feel the desire for God's comfort because you were designed to receive it. You were not designed to go through things like this without his loving and comforting arms wrapping around you, protecting you from the pain. God literally protects me of the pain from things I did to screw up my own life. Of course he would comfort you in things like this. You seem like a very sweet, caring person and God would love to have you as part of his family and to live with Him forever in glory. You can take my words to heart or disregard them. The choice is yours. Either way, I am truly sorry about what happened to you and I know you will get through this. :)
 
#46 ·
Well I was going to stay out of this conversation, but....

IMO-To say that the christian religion is based on freewill is not accurate. Yes, you have the ability to make a "choice" but that choice comes with a price. If you chose not to believe in God, are you not then subjected to eternal damnation? That's not exactly freewill. It comes across as coercion.

As for an atheistic BS, well. I, as a human being, took a vow as did my WS. We made the vows to each other, he chose to break them. Prayers to a deity will not lessen the pain of betrayal, nor make me stronger. I have those abilities within myself.
I ask no one else to share my views, nor condemn others for their beliefs. If your belief system brings you happiness, wonderful! Religions don't seem to agree on that point either.
 
#49 · (Edited)
The problem with that, Angel, is that you and Christians like you, think that your religion is true and therefore blankets everyone because we haven't seen the light....even people who don't believe. We're just told "I'll pray for you". Please don't waste your time. If I don't believe in Hell or God, then it doesn't exist. You can't prove that it does, so there we go.

As far as justifying why children starve and die by saying they'll never know evil--- you have no idea what children go through and I'd say many of them have known evil and died a horrible death. Starving to death isn't a quick death...

People die because that's part of life.

Pam, just focus within. You are stronger than you realize. Honestly, you are stronger than you ever imagined...which is why you're still here. :)
 
#57 ·
The problem with that, Angel, is that you and Christians like you, think that your religion is true and therefore blankets everyone because we haven't seen the light....even people who don't believe. We're just told "I'll pray for you". Please don't waste your time. If I don't believe in Hell or God, then it doesn't exist. You can't prove that it does, so there we go.
When people say they'll pray for me, I mentally change that to, "I'm sending virtual hugs your way" or "I'm sending good vibes your way." It amounts to the same thing, as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for thinking of me!

Pam, just focus within. You are stronger than you realize. Honestly, you are stronger than you ever imagined...which is why you're still here. :)
Yes, this.
 
#51 ·
I mean, in all reality, all gods are imaginary friends.

Doesn't matter how real it feels to a person, still no proof.

I can see how it is offensive...but I've been offended by Christians all my life and they didn't seem to care.

And I can't even really say, "I don't believe in God" because that gives a sense that a god exists.

There is no god in the sense of the Bible and other written books. Those were just created to control groups of people.

But I digress and am COMPLETELY off topic. lol. Sorry, Pam. I just....really have a problem with people feeling they need to defend their deity when the topic clearly stated agnostic/atheist.
 
#54 ·
Ariel, I consider myself atheist (in reality non practicing catholic I guess). I don't begrudge anyone their faith, no matter what it is. One of my life long best friends is a deacon at his church. Goes to mass every day. I imagine many of the posters here respect different religious views as well, despite many of the tongue in cheek comments.

One of the first replies to this thread basically attacked atheists - wondering how such people could even have a moral compass. As if atheists, since they do not believe in a god and do not have his hand guiding us, are out in the streets raping and pillaging. So folks including me came out with their claws out.
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#55 ·
Which is funny because people are just people. I know plenty of Christians who cheated on spouses, lied about taxes, had sex before marriage, and screwed people over.

I mean, many religions have been busted for child molestation within the clergy.

But when the thread clearly says "Atheist/Agnostic" and the OP wants help in how to cope...it means she probably doesn't want God shoved down her throat. That first poster just posted to make sure everyone knew he was a Christian and that he was right and everyone else is wrong.
 
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#56 ·
It seems like those with religion can grasp onto that and pray and trust that their god will deliver them from the pain of being a BS. What can atheists and agnostics use? You can't pray to science. You can't expect the Universe to deliver you from your pain. I think I'm feeling jealous of other's faith even though I have no desire to have faith in a god myself.
Time. Time does heal, albeit slowly. But it does. It heals both physical and emotional pain. Remember that time you broke your arm or got smacked in the head by a baseball? Yeah, you do remember that you felt pain and it hurt immensely, but you don't actually feel the pain anymore. It's the same with emotional pain. In time, you can remember the pain, and maybe even get angry or upset about how it happened, but you don't actually feel it acutely like you might do now or when you trigger.

Yourself. Most of us have survived crappy things before, lots of crappy things happen to us over the course of a lifetime. But we all pick ourselves up (after a suitable amount of ice cream and sad movies and crying in a heap on the floor), and, day by day, we start to rebuild our lives. Each day, you notice something wonderful - a great meal, a good friend's kind hug, a beautiful sunset, a snuggly pet, a neighbor giving you fresh tomatoes from their garden...the little things add up and make you remember yourself and the joy you have in life. Again, it takes time, but you do regain peace eventually.

Family and friends. You know who they are, the ones who are hurting for you and rooting for you, and invite you over for dinner even though you're a miserable mess. Love and kindness heals, too.

Some can attribute that to a god of some sort I suppose, but in the end, it's all of the above that did it and it didn't come any faster or slower.
 
#58 ·
I meant when they say "I'll pray for you" in terms of you finding their god, as if you're lost and they have the truth.

That's what I meant.

Some of my friends pray for me in times of trouble and I appreciate it. :)
 
#61 ·
Atheism is a term dreamed up by those that believe in God.

Those without a belief in God are just people not attached to a religious dogma.


Why do I split hairs on the label? Because a lot of people link a negative connotation to the label.

To not believe in a God does not mean a person is without ethics any more than professing a belief in a God proves a person has ethics.

I think, outside of sociopathic types, most people of all persuasion feel the pain of betrayal. It offends us all.
 
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#64 ·
let me see if I can answer without being offensive to those who have faith as it is not my intention to do as such


but essentially, we atheists cope much in the same way as Christians, Jews and others who believe in God do. We lean on friends, family, and most importantly ourselves. When someone of faith tells me God helped them through a difficult time I think to myself that it wasn't an anthropomorphic supreme being that did it, it was the person themselves that did it. That strength had to come from somewhere and the belief itself of God or that God "has plan" or loves him/her isn't the direct source. It came from within, whether you choose to call that inner strength God or your own self worth or the belief that things do get better and good things do happen to people who work towards it.

You have the strength Pam, I know that your current state of despair and depression makes it difficult to see that, but I can assure you that you do. You have the power to make your life better and despite the unforeseeable obstacles that were thrown in your way, it will get better. The alternative is to wallow in your own pity and desperately cling to the notion that you are a victim the rest of your days but from what I've read in your threads you are far too strong to do that.

Hold on and keep moving, you will find happiness again
 
#65 ·
o_O I just think it's to be expected that religious people (usually Christian, but not always) can't let someone have an atheist/agnostic question or thread without stating that they feel offended or trying to defend their deity.

Let people live.
 
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#67 ·
If you believe that it's okay for children to die because they'll respawn in heaven, then dying a slow death of starvation becomes a pit stop on the road to heaven. This is similar to the reason I think it's a bad idea for doomsday believers to have their fingers on the doomsday button. Faith can create outcomes, good and bad. Whatever we are, we work best when we work together and when we focus on real things we can do together to create positive outcomes. This is great since we have so much in common, but people tend to focus on differences, impose their world view on others, etc. It's so much wasted effort.

Religion could feed, clothe and house every child on Earth. Instead, most Christians are content to live overly-comfortable lives, ignore or dismiss the suffering of others, build opulent churches that are used for a few hours a few times a week, and throw away money into the political system to control social issues (and not the issues focused on universal good like poverty/health - but the issues which impose their view of morality such as reproductive issues).

I actually do appreciate prayers, just as I appreciate good thoughts and feelings sent my way, but I do not appreciate a smug sense of omniscience informed by a book that was written, compiled, and edited thousands of years ago. I'm sure even the oldest religions had their doubters, e.g. when a loved one died or food fell short, long before "God" showed himself to his first followers.
 
#68 ·
And this is ALL OFF TOPIC!

Who cares what atheists are or aren't. We know what and who we are. Just leave it to religious people to come in and make it a debate about their god being real and they're offended and we're just floundering for the Light.

Please.

Pam asked how to cope as an atheist/agnostic. That she was jealous of her religious friends because they seemed to have something to lean on.

You're right, Pam...they do. They say it's god, but it's really just themselves...strong and vibrant as ever.

You have your SELF to lean on. Honestly, it's wicked strong. Full of hope and sustainability. It just has to get out of the fog. :)

When bad things happen to me, my question is always, "What am I to learn from this? What is the message here for me to learn?" well, I think that with good things too...but it especially helps in hard times because it gives the hard times a PURPOSE. Lessons are so good in life...they keep you from making the same mistake again, if you truly reflect on it.

That's my mission right now....figuring out what I'm supposed to have learned from this marriage, but in all honesty, it's been 4 years of crazy in a 7 year stint.
 
#80 ·
You have your SELF to lean on. Honestly, it's wicked strong. Full of hope and sustainability. It just has to get out of the fog. :).
:iagree:

This Pam.

And if the fog gets too thick sometimes, there's always someone here to shore you up and help you find your way:).

Bohr's quote in my signature pretty much sums up my approach to adversity. Because I don't believe in an afterlife I do my best to live in and enjoy the now and you never know what the next day is gonna serve up to you (good or bad). Either way, I'm always hungry, endlessly curious and secure in the knowledge that if it happened to me, it happened to someone else. If they managed to push through it and thrive, then so can I. Especially if they're giving me sound 'how-to' advice
 
#81 ·
Another thing that's helped me is understanding that we only have the RIGHT NOW.

There is no tomorrow. The past happened. It's done. I don't live in the future or the past. I try to live in the NOW. The future doesn't exist and yet we WORRY SO DAMN MUCH about it...we forget to do our work in the NOW.

It's always the "now". If you choose to be positive and work on yourself and being the best YOU, then the now is beneficial.

But try not to get caught up in the what ifs, the what thens, the what will happen whens...because they don't exist. Focus on the now and if in your 'now', something big and horrible happens, then you deal with it in the NOW and move through.

I dunno. It's helped me a ton to focus on the now and not spin out of control worrying about the future...a future I don't even know is coming or not.
 
#82 ·
I was raised Catholic, and thought that was "why you were good." I am also a WS (yay for handy acronym labels). I have been accused, on here, of becoming an atheist to make my affair "ok." I didn't, but you know what? It is ok. It is not immoral to be attracted to another person, and a broken promise is just that: it's not a murder, it's not assault, it's not theft. Is it a mistake? Absolutely, but lots of mistakes happen, on all levels. I have the LARGE majority of my life I am extremely proud of, and despite what the Catholics say about 'absolution,' while their concept of God may very well adhere to it, they do not. There is nothing a Catholic loves more, than feeling superior to another human being. Don't tell me I'm wrong, I've known FAR too many to be convinced otherwise.

Neither karma nor God is out to get you, nor is either 'on your side.' You want to know how to get over being a WS? Realize, it's really not that big a deal; if it were such an egregious thing, why do millions of marriages deal with it? Because long-term committment is difficult, REALLY difficult, and IMO, an unreasonable request of most of us. The people who say it's no big deal, they've never strayed in 50 years of marriage? Frankly, I think they're co-dependent, in the clinical sense. Having an affair doesn't mean you're a lousy person, it doesn't mean your BS is some martyr, wounded for life....they need to get over it, too. It's like revoking the license of someone who gets in a fender-bender, claiming they're a reckless, horrible driver. Yes, that's extreme, but the other side of this coin needs to be discussed. The BS's on here talk as if there is nothing in the world so personally damaging as an affair. I think if you go beyond a certain point, still bitter and wounded over it.....then maybe your personal issues are a little more responsible at that point. Which, not coincidentally, just MAYBE were rearing their head and were a contributing factor to the affair. I know, I know.....NOTHING is responsible for making someone cheat, right? - bulls**t. One person taking the leap to an affair is certainly responsible for that unique mistake, but it does not automatically trump absolutely anything else that happened.
 
#83 ·
WOW! Cheating on your spouse is no big deal because bigger things can and have happened?

You really do justify yourself.

Just like a bully to tell someone to "get over it".

The nerve you have, really. Now I know why you cheated. You really don't see any side except yours and you've realllllly justified it as no big deal.

Maybe you should have put that in the vows YOU TOOK. Hard or not, you took vows. "Broken promise" or not, it is a big deal....
 
#86 ·
I honestly think my non-god beliefs helped me through my hardships more than having faith ever would.

I looked for strength within myself instead of praying and hoping for someone to "rescue" me.

I never understood organized religion. Put all your faith in something that may or may not exist instead of yourself. Just "believe" and you will be taken care of.

Believe in yourself and the same thing will happen. :)
 
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