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Atheist / Agnostic Betrayed Spouses

25K views 268 replies 49 participants last post by  GusPolinski 
#1 ·
It seems like those with religion can grasp onto that and pray and trust that their god will deliver them from the pain of being a BS. What can atheists and agnostics use? You can't pray to science. You can't expect the Universe to deliver you from your pain. I think I'm feeling jealous of other's faith even though I have no desire to have faith in a god myself.
 
#141 ·
I love how many Christians always take the side that they are being attacked. That they are the victims.

Please. Pam asked how atheists and agnostics cope. In no way was that one dude's post even related...he just had to defend his god and blah blah.

When someone asks about how to cope (and they are an atheist) they probably don't want to hear about Jesus Christ. At least I don't. I don't believe. It's not that I am not aware of it, I don't WANT IT.

So yea it will be met with opposition because it seems there cannot ever be a conversation about other religions or ideas or beliefs without Christians butting in to "enlighten" everyone.
 
#143 ·
I have no doubt that Jesus existed, was a good man and helped others.

In no way do I think he was god's son. I think his friends got a little over zealous and wrote about him. Stories.

But yea...the posts in here by most of the Christians are why I'm not a Christian.

Sorry, Pam, for jackin your thread. I hope you had a good day.
 
#145 ·
"When someone asks about how to cope (and they are an atheist) they probably don't want to hear about Jesus Christ. At least I don't. I don't believe. It's not that I am not aware of it, I don't WANT IT."

This truly never bothers me, even though I personally find most of the views and advice useless.

I know that it means a lot to them, and they are actually trying their best to be good people and assist me when I am having a hard time.

I can appreciate that.

And I also know from my very religious upbringing that there is a lot of great life wisdom in the Bible (and other religions for that matter)...I just have zero use or need for the prayer, 'salvation', and personal relationship stuff.

But I do think their hearts are in the right place as long as its not coming with self-righteous judgements (I once got told that a difficult situation in life was the result of God punishing me for being an unrepentant sinner and agnostic).
 
#146 ·
Also sorry for the jack Pam.

I can only echo the thoughts of some of the other posters here, Dyokkem, TG, Thorburn etc.

I must apologise but I haven't read your back story so not sure if you are separated or not. Are there any clubs/meetings/get togethers for betrayed spouses/separated people?

There are also some very open churches that will not mind that you are atheist/agnostic and are only to pleased to help anyone without preaching at them and saving them.

Of course you've also got TAM, it's an infectious place.
 
#150 ·
If one was to look at the years from 1900 till about the year 2000, one would find that roughly 94 million people died under an ideology that dismissed the concept of God. An additional 28 million died under fascism.
The key difference being that christians butchered countless in the name of their god. They actually considered their actions justified due to the stamping out of those that opposed their religion.

And lets not get into numbers. If you directly or indirectly equate the christian religion and the butchering of cultures, other religions, women, scientists, and factions within Christianity (ie, protestants and catholics) it would take me a long, long time to calculate that number.

In the examples you gave, those groups were no killing in the name of atheism or agnosticism. They were killing to gain control in a certain type of government structure.

Please spare me the fallacious christian reasoning.
 
#156 ·
I'm speaking as a mom here: CALL THEM ANYWAY.

If one of my kids or my sister needed me, I don't care if it's 3am. In fact all our family and friends have the same rule: you can literally call or come over day or night, but if you come between 3am and say about 9am, I'll be in jammies with bad breath and bed head. If your sitch is bigger than bad breath and bed head, then come on over!
 
#165 ·
Not an athiest, but I often try to imagine all my stress and pain gathering up into a ball and I imagine releasing it into the air. As a believer, I ask God to take those things...but I suppose you could just imagine your stress and hurt and worry going into the nameless void.

The universe...energy returning to energy...being renewed.

lol.
 
#160 ·
Now I expect several Christians will be offended, and honestly that's not intended to be offensive.
Crucifixion was merely the preferred method of execution 2000 years ago. The act was not significant.
 
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#173 ·
Vocaroo | Voice message


Pam, reading your original post reminded me of a quote by George Bernard Shaw.

I hesitated posting it because there had been enough friction between the Christians and the atheists.

However I am going to post it but I will state that it is not intended as a dig at Christians, I just thought it applicable to your post.

The whole passage that the quote comes from could be interpreted as a bit controversial so if you want to see it let me know and I can PM or you can just google it. Of course you may already know the passage. I believe it is from Androcles and the Lion.

George Bernard Shaw.

The fact that a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.

While I agree with GBS I would say that if members of a church can help someone going through any type of pain then does it really matter if an atheist thinks it is bunk? More kudos to them if they can help someone.

Further threadjack.

An amusing incident on Androcles and the Lion (I think anyway)

As a schoolboy one of our required reads was Androcles. The teacher decided that we would read it as a play.

One of my roles was a herald and my part was to cry out "make way for the King's bullocks"

Unfortunately I had never heard bullocks being pronounced.

When it was my turn to speak I shouted in my most heraldic voice "Make way for the King's bollocks." (bollocks is Brit slang for mens testicles).

The whole class erupted with laughter, the teacher had to leave the room he was laughing so hard.
I just sat there burning red with embarrassment.
 
#179 ·
My path isn't lonely and I don't expect a magic man to say my "sins" are forgiven.

Life is about choices. Good and bad, they are all lessons. So we eff up, oh well, it's a lesson. Learn from it and keep going on your path.

But yea, not lonely. And anything takes inner strength and courage if it's worth it.
 
#181 ·
I think the loneliness aspect of it depends on where you are. If you're in the bible belt good luck finding like minded sane individuals who you can confide in when you need to. My sons have been in classroom situations where they found themselves very alone in their atheistic opinions. In two cases their final grades actually suffered for it. There's definately a price to pay in certain company. As adults we can choose who we associate with outside of work but at work you still have to be careful.
 
#180 ·
I dealt with the pain. Now I am not saying that to be an ass. I am great at compartmentalizing, so I just didn't go there. It is something I had to learn after cancer. It took years to realize that I am not a "cancer-survivor," I am a person who was afflicted with cancer. It was the same thing with betrayal. I refused to allow someone else's actions to define who I am.

Whose fault is it that he cheated? His. Were there problems? Sure, but those problems had nothing to do with cheating. He added that layer. So I trusted science. I put my faith in my knowledge of science, and the fact that there were more warning signs then just the cheating. We embarked on a severe course of therapy that gave us a diagnosis and an action plan.

You find your way through by doing, not thinking. For a while life is a process of flow charts and if-then logic statements. I didn't know for sure that I wanted to stay married for over a year, but I knew I wanted to try. As long as he kept showing his commitment at every stage we pushed forward to the next.

Put your faith in yourself, make the decision you deserve, and get it done.
 
#182 ·
Oh i meant I'm not lonely with myself.

I don't have really anyone who thinks how I think.

But I'd never move to the bible belt so there's that. I'd rather cut my eyes out.

I think CA is way more liberal (duh) so I don't know of this "being careful" about what you believe at work. Christians (at my work) spout out often about what they believe and a few have wanted to share the "Good News" with me. lmao.. Everyone should be allowed to state their beliefs. .
 
#183 · (Edited)
Pamvhv I think I saw that film with that corpse kissing stuff: Prince Charming vs. The Zombie Horde. Same people who made Abe Lincoln Vampire Slayer. It's funny how a pound of butter, sugar and flower keeps the dark side at bay.
I have a sense that the friction that was mentioned above has more to do with the person than the faith.
I taught a Society course a while ago and human evolution both genetic and societal. I felt that I was bound to present The Creationist view along with the Scientific. I couldn't do the theory justice so I asked a friend Cliff to do it. Now Cliff believed that God made the earth some 7,000 years ago, men shared the earth with dinosaurs until the flood swept them away, etc.
Cliff was perhaps the most decent man I have ever met. he dealt with the most difficult students we had. He was so mild, gentle and soft spoken that we worried the class would him done by lunch, instead he had them He travelled into their dark places reached out his hand and brought so many of them back to the light.
Cliff lived his faith ever day and even if I never saw his light I would never doubt that he saw it. When his young wife died, leaving him with four children under four, his church community gathered around him and helped him through. Some three years later he fell in love with one of the women who had helped. They were a perfect fit at all levels.
So he did his thing,I did mine and respectively treated each other and the topic with respect and dignity. We often talked about faith, religion and good, but we never bickered or fought about it. I still remember him with affection. it just wasn't in me to give myself to god, but I couldn't help but admire him.
 
#185 ·
Any shred of religious belief I had died with my marriage. I am firmly agnostic now and won't attend church. As far as getting over pain or praying for it to be gone I wouldn't even if I was still religious. I need my pain as a reminder that doing stupid things have consequences...so don't do that anymore.
 
#186 ·
Any shred of religious belief I had died with my marriage. I am firmly agnostic now and won't attend church. As far as getting over pain or praying for it to be gone I wouldn't even if I was still religious. I need my pain as a reminder that doing stupid things have consequences...so don't do that anymore.
Oh, no, no you don't need that pain! Let it fade!

If you need a reminder that doing stupid things has consequences, put it as a recurring entry on your calendar. Don't hold onto pain. Do non-stupid things instead.
 
#191 ·
My take on atheism:

Atheism is a religion. If I as a Christian ask "are you a Christian?" And you reply, "No I am an Atheist". If a Jew asks you, "are you a Jew?" and you reply, "No I am an Atheist". If a Muslim asks you, "Are you a Muslim?" And you reply, "No, I am an Atheist. Aren't these religious questions?

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have dogma, "There is no god and there is no afterlife and this is all there is."

Atheism has denominations just like other religions:

1. Gnostic Atheist - not only believes there are no gods, he also claims to know there are no gods.
2. Agnostic atheist - doesn’t believe in gods, but doesn’t claim to know there are no gods.
3. A negative atheist merely lacks a belief in gods.
4. A positive atheist not only lacks a belief in gods, but also affirms that no gods exist.
5. Broad atheist denies the existence of all gods: Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Shiva, and so on.
6. A narrow atheist denies the existence of the traditional Western omni-God who is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful.
7. An unfriendly atheist believes no one is justified in believing that gods exist.
8. An indifferent atheist doesn’t have a belief on whether or not others are justified in believing that gods exist.
9. A friendly atheist believes that some theists are justified in believing that gods exist.
10. A closet atheist has not yet revealed his disbelief to most people.
11. An open atheist has revealed his disbelief to most people.
12. A passive atheist doesn’t believe in god but doesn’t try to influence the world in favor of atheism.
13. An evangelical atheist tries to persuade others to give up theistic belief.
14. An active atheist labors on behalf of causes that specifically benefit atheists (but not necessarily just atheists). For example, he strives against discrimination toward atheists, or he strives in favor of separation of church and state.
15. A militant atheist uses violence to promote atheism or destroy religion.
16. Enchanted Atheist - enchanted includes those that still get mystical intuitions inspite of being an atheist.
 
#192 · (Edited)
This "Atheism is religion" stuff is really tiresome. Whatever labels you use this is what defines the two approaches appropriately.

A person of faith has beliefs that are exempt from the standards of reason and evidence that are typically required for an idea to be considered true.

An person of reason requires that all his or her held beliefs meet the standards of reason and evidence that are typically required for an idea to be considered true.


I am sure there are people who call themselves atheists who have no idea what that really means. There are lots of misguided people out there of all flavors. Their existence does not broaden the meaning of atheism into something insupportable or make it the rhetorical equal to any faith.
 
#194 ·
Why does it matter? Let atheists be atheists and god-believers be god-believers.

I know it pains the minds of some god-believers that there are some people that simply have NO religion or faith based beliefs. I know it is hard to put that into a box into their brain because their faith based beliefs are so important to them.

But when people try to tell other people what they are, it's irritating.

I could get into my beliefs, but I rarely do...lol. I'm not atheist, but believe in no god. Maybe that makes me agnostic to some...but I just believe what I believe. No labels required.
 
#196 ·
And I think everyone should strive in favor of separation of Church and State.

No religion should have ANY say on ANY laws in this country.

Vote your conscience. That's all you should be able to do.

But creating laws in favor of a religion is not only ethically wrong, but constitutional wrong as well.
 
#205 ·
That is definitely one area where America is more advanced than the UK.

Bishops even get to sit in the House of Lords.
 
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