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Chump Lady on Why You Can’t “Nice” People Out of Affairs

31K views 250 replies 48 participants last post by  Headspin 
#1 ·
This is another good piece from CL.

Why You Can’t “Nice” People Out of Affairs

This quote bears repeating!!!

"But here’s the thing — you can’t nice people out of affairs because you didn’t “mean” them into affairs in the first place. Their decision to cheat is completely on them. We don’t control other people. Our niceness doesn’t win them back. And our meanness doesn’t compel them to hurt us. Besides what crime did you commit that is proportionate to the punishment of being betrayed?"

The BS may be imperfect but they don't deserve the punishment of infidelity.As if the cheating spouse was perfect to begin with. HA!
 
#2 ·
I can't say I agree with all of that quote. I definitely don't think you can nice someone out of an affair. But I do think there are things you can do to push your spouse away. I would think it would be good for the betrayed to acknowledge their own flaws in the relationship as well (if there are any). If not for the current relationship for the next one.
 
#8 ·
"But here’s the thing — you can’t nice people out of affairs because you didn’t “mean” them into affairs in the first place. Their decision to cheat is completely on them. We don’t control other people. Our niceness doesn’t win them back. And our meanness doesn’t compel them to hurt us. Besides what crime did you commit that is proportionate to the punishment of being betrayed?"
I'd like to add that "meanness" or being what some people would call being mean spirited, can end affairs. What I mean by "meanness" is indifference to the WS and broad exposure including public shaming.
 
#9 ·
I'd like to add that "meanness" or being what some people would call being mean spirited, can end affairs. What I mean by"meanness" is indifference to the WS and broad exposure including public shaming.
There have to be consequences. Even with consequences the cheater doesn't have the mind movies, the triggers and the scarring that the BS has. Sometimes in my darker moments I think that to make a cheater fully understand what they have done is to have them experience that level of betrayal. "Empathy" for their BS's pain is not the same thing as actually feeling and experiencing it. That is why I have zero sympathy for a cheater who gets betrayed.
 
#12 ·
I don't agree with the quote either. While I didn't cheat on my ex, if I had she'd have deserved any pain it caused her, as it would have barely begun to balance 20 plus years of sexlessness.
 
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#17 ·
I don't think the primary purpose of that television show it to help people fix things. TV shows tend to be about entertaining their audiences. I know, weird right?

The subject matter is what would be a good fit for the show, I thik (I am not actually a producer for the show, and have never sat through an entire episode, but I think I have the gist of it).

You could go on, proudly tell your stories, and even renew your vows right there in front of a live audience.

There'd be no internet anonymity to hide behind, though. You'd both be out there owning your choices and proudly telling the audience how great it all is...

So that millions of people can sit in front of their TV sets and say, "Thank goodness my life isn't like that" :)
 
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#19 · (Edited)
We are not anonymous in real life of course. We are just a normal couple like everyone else....we don't wear Scarlett letters on our chests that say we are cheaters. We treat each other with respect and love..we have had a good life together in spite of the infidelity...certainly not because of it.
LOL "scarlet letters" (Hawthorne) and "stoning" (Bronze age, authors unknown). You do have a flair for the overly dramatic.

Why not just say, "He did something horrible. I did something horrible. And it's a bit of a secret in real life"?

Living a life of high integrity kind of demands transparency or at least a willingness to have complete transparency.

It's the "Live your life as if whatever you do will be in the morning paper to be read by your friends, family, co-workers" principle.

Deep, dark family secrets are the breeding ground for all sorts of dysfunction.
 
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#42 ·
The people that need to know....know. It is no one else's business.

In reconciliation....it is not necessary to broadcast your private matters to the world...in divorce i guess it doesn't matter one way or the other.

By the way.. transparency means being transparent to EACH OTHER...not to every other person on the face of the earth.
I may be somewhat off topic from what you were referring to, but it sparked a question in my mind that I hoped you might answer. You frequently use the "one size doesn't fit all" argument in regards to reconciliation, which I think is generally a fair point as long as it's not used to deflect legitimate criticism of an immoral act. I'm not accusing you of doing that btw.:) Having said that. Do you not believe some things are universally true in regards to relationships?

Just as an example, would you argue that one is not morally obligated to inform the other BS of their spouse's affair? Would you have been able to have a clean conscience if your husbands AP had been married and you allowed the other BS to be left in the dark all of these years about what transpired between them? Wouldn't anybody who argued against informing him be rightly "set straight" on here?

I guess what I'm asking is, while it's true that there are some things that should be left up to individual preference "as long as it works for them" aren't there other things that really are black and white no matter how much people try and convince themselves that they're mere shades of gray? I hope you take this in the spirit that it was intended.:)
 
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#38 ·
Come on! Those are two entirely different issues. One can only legally get stoned in Colorado. I don't know how many marriages that has saved, but I'm sure somebody will find statistics somewhere.

As for scarlet letters, besides football teams, we can have them here if we wish. Here's a scarlet J for Mrs. Adams.
 
#66 ·
We'll have to define "nice". If it means accepting what the WS has done, or ignoring it, then I agree. But that's not what I understand by nice.

Let me put it this way:

Nice: Please don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Not nice: I don't give a d**m if the f**king door hits you on the way out or not.
 
#46 ·
I always try to look at infidelity now like alcohoism, drug addiction, or a gambling problem.

a. you can't nice someone into sobriety
b. you can't blame their spouse for their bad behavior

what you CAN do is call a betrayed spouse out i they

c. enable the bad behavior

I would suggest being "nice" just enables the bad behavior. In that way not only are you not solving the problem, you are actually feeding it.
 
#47 ·
I am a BS who was the lousy spouse prior to my wife's cheating.

I did not deserve to be cheated on.

However, now that we are reconciling, I do think it is my job to be a better husband than I was before my wife's EA.

The BS has a choice. We can always choose to end the marriage if we want. But if we choose to work it out, we need to give it our all. Just like the wayward does.
 
#48 ·
Best of luck in the R.
Just a question to bring the discussion back to the title of this thread-did you "nice" your WS out of the A?
 
#51 ·
In what world is cheating a legitimate response to anything?

Is cheating on a final exam in university a legitimate response ever?

Why on earth do some people give marital cheating get a free pass, but any other kind of cheating is zero tolerance?

If I cheat in any other way, can I factor in my spouse's bad behavior for that?

I am taking night classes... does this mean I can factor my husband into the mix if I cheat on my exams?

Where on earth does this nonsense come from that cheating a marriage is complicated but any other kind of cheating is zero tolerance?

Why the hell does cheating a marriage get handled any different than all other kinds of cheating?
 
#73 ·
I don't believe it does get treated differently. What may be confusing is that there are two possible outcomes: one is divorce, the other is reconciliation.

Which to you recommend?

I don't think one can answer that question without more information about the state of the marriage. That is NOT treating some infidelities differently. It is about the next step after the infidelity is known.
 
#52 ·
Divorce and reconciliation are very personal issues, I believe it's up to the betrayed spouse to decide.

I don't think anyone has any right to say whether not either choice is right or wrong. It's not anyone's business but the couples.
I also think that shamming others for their choices is wrong. There are many factors that come to play in the decision, why not be opened minded and supportive, this is what this site is about.
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#55 ·
Divorce and reconciliation are very personal issues, I believe it's up to the betrayed spouse to decide.
Really? Is that what we tell people who cheat on their exams?

I don't think anyone has any right to say whether not either choice is right or wrong. It's not anyone's business but the couples.
Really? Is that what we say to alcholics who drink to excess to the detriment of their family?

I also think that shaming others for their choices is wrong.
Why not walk into an AA meeting and try that?

Those people trying to get sober are pretty shamed for what they have done, and it's done a lot to help them wake up and recover.

There are many factors that come to play in the decision, why not be opened minded and supportive, this is what this site is about.
More excuses?

Sorry, but this is the kind of BS that perpetuates infidelity in the first place. Enabling by excusing.

If your kids cheat on their exams and come home to say "lets be open minded.. there are many factors at play here" do you nod your head in agreement?

The only legitimate response to any case of infidelity is with zero tolerance, not with "lets be open minded."
 
#62 ·
I was going to ask this same question. It's hard to tell, Riley, what you mean by zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance can either mean, 1) I forgive you and am willing to move on, as long as it never happens again and you (the cheater) shows remorse and never does it again,

or

2) I will terminate this marriage no matter what you do or how sorry you are.

If you mean #2, that means infidelity is a deal breaker for you. That's okay. But it doesn't mean #2 is how everybody should handle it.

Comparing this issue to cheating on a test is completely ridiculous.
 
#72 ·
If you want to believe that you love your spouse when you engage in an act of infidelity, go right ahead. You can try to make yourself believe anything I suppose. This has nothing to do with R after the A has ended which is an entirely different subject.

With all due respect Sidney I am not making assumptions, supportable or not. The decision to stay married or to divorce is a choice. There are always consequences. It remains a choice. Sometimes the choice seems easy, and other times not so much.
 
#75 · (Edited)
I lurked on TAM for a while before I posted my first thread, and got slammed for being an idiot. Literally told I was a first class idiot.

I'm still with the gal, and we're working things out.

My first wife cheated on me and I D'ed her right away.

So even the same BS might respond to infidelity in different ways at different times in life, with a different mate, for different reasons.

There was no internet for my first D; I did all that on my own. Didn't need anyone else's advice. And I didn't take some of the advice I was given here, even some of the well-meaning advice.

Why? Because only I know my life, and all the ramifications of my choices, and only I have to live with them.

That said, I also got some great ideas that I am using. You take from TAM and other places, people, friends etc what you can use and discard the rest.
 
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#112 ·
Below taken from a post by Velocet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney2718
Point 1: Cheating often is NOT chosen as a method of leaving one's spouse. It is chosen for other reasons. Many cheaters still love their spouses.

How does one claim love for their spouse, then go out and F someone else?

Simple. It is called cognitive dissonance and we can all do it. It is simply the ability to have two conflicting ideas in one's head at the same time.

Quote:
Point 2: It is not always possible for a person to divorce their spouse. Divorce costs money, especially if contested. Living after a divorce costs money. There is not sufficient money to do this. This especially affects women with children.
Ah, so cheaters decide to not only betray their spouse, but use them for their own financial well being.

Nice, real nice.

I didn't care what it cost. I took out a loan to get divorced.

I also don't live quite as well as I did before. But I'm living a helluva lot better than living with someone that can't stay faithful.
Too bad I didn't write that last bit about cheaters using their spouses for their own financial advantage. There are over 46 million Americans living below the poverty line. That means that a family of four has an income of LESS than $24,000 per year. I don't think one can run two households on that kind of money.

As for borrowing it, most folks below the poverty line can't borrow anything.

I'm glad it worked out for you in your situation. I really am. I wish you luck.
 
#129 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2long View Post
he rationalizes that it's better for him 2 lie and cheat 2 get what he wants, than it is 2 be honest with himself and his family, and making a healthy selfless choice.

-ol' 2long
I gather that by that last you mean get divorced?
Or not cheat, yes. Cheating is the coward's option.

If you go over to the sex in marriage thread you will find a number of cases of sexless marriages where the spouse does NOT want to divorce but also does NOT want a sexless marriage. It is a common thing and folks are often of two minds about it.
Remember that part about "in sickness and in health"? Most people have that in their vows. What if there's a medical reason for the sexlessness?

Why don't vows also include "As long as we both shall feel like it", instead of "as long as we both shall live?"

There's serious integrity in the latter. Not so much in the former, which is what most vows are apparently unilaterally retranslated into.

-ol' 2long
 
#189 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2long View Post
he rationalizes that it's better for him 2 lie and cheat 2 get what he wants, than it is 2 be honest with himself and his family, and making a healthy selfless choice.

-ol' 2long


Or not cheat, yes. Cheating is the coward's option.



Remember that part about "in sickness and in health"? Most people have that in their vows. What if there's a medical reason for the sexlessness?

Why don't vows also include "As long as we both shall feel like it", instead of "as long as we both shall live?"

There's serious integrity in the latter. Not so much in the former, which is what most vows are apparently unilaterally retranslated into.

-ol' 2long
Well of course we are all assuming that there is no medical reason.

If we want to discuss wedding vows, sex is part of them. Some religions don't consider a marriage complete until it is consummated. I'd figure that totally turning off the sex IS a violation of the marriage vows.
 
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