I was having a discussion with someone who said "I would never cheat"... That conversation hit me in between the eyes because what this person said was almost word for word what my W had said to me before she had her affair...
It prompted me to put together some information I've learned while trying to understand and cope with what is happening to my family and write this in response...
I don’t think the majority of people involved in affairs, or even drugs for that matter set out with the intention of becoming drug addicts or adulterers. It is a snow ball effect. Most people don’t even know it’s rolling until its already gained significant speed and can very easily get out of control.
The DS doesn’t always realize what is happening or they see it through “the fog”. A bad (often dismissed as “innocent”) decision starts the ball rolling, which forces another bad decision, which may be difficult to cope with, which is rationalized, which kicks in all of the defense mechanisms, which force more bad decisions…. Etc, etc, etc…
You are not as strong as your mind, and in affair situations your mind IS ON DRUGS. It most often starts as something “innocent” and somewhere along the line it starts… Chemicals get naturally released into the brain.. when fed small doses of "love drugs" i.e. phenylethylamine (or "PEA" -- a naturally occurring trace ammine in the brain. PEA is a natural amphetamine, which leases Dopamine. Dopamine stimulates the production of oxytocin). This begins "intrusive thinking," where it seems like your brain is fixated on the object of your affection. When your heart rules your head, there's actually one part of your brain running the other: the cortex is the area of your brain that controls logical thinking, while emotions are processed by the limbic system. When too many happy chemicals like PEA and dopamine flood your brain, they head straight for the limbic system.
The DS is now on the addiction path. Then your mind can begin a process of defensive mechanisms which can and will shield you from realizing what is really happening, and before you know it you lose control. But most often I believe the DS thinks they are in control of the situation as does any “addict”. They don’t see it; after all that IS a defense mechanism. It’s your mind’s way of protecting itself, an unconscious process that tries to reduce the anxiety associated with instinctive desires. The most well known and common in an adulterer would be Rationalization, Denial, and Repression. Read any story here or anywhere else about “the fog” or a DS’s behavior the characteristic signs of these defense mechanisms are present.
Denial is probably one of the best known defense mechanisms, used often to describe situations in which people seem unable to face reality or admit an obvious truth (i.e. "more than friends”) Denial is an outright refusal to admit or recognize that something has occurred or is currently occurring.
Denial functions to protect the ego from things that the individual cannot cope with (guilt?). While this may save us from anxiety or pain, denial also requires a substantial investment of energy. Because of this, other defenses are also used to keep these unacceptable feelings from consciousness.
Rationalization is a defense mechanism that involves explaining an unacceptable behavior or feeling in a rational or logical manner, avoiding the true reasons for the behavior. Rationalization not only prevents anxiety, it may also protect self-esteem and self-concept. Rationalization also kicks in when confronted by perceived moral failure or wrongdoing (i.e.; DDay); people tend to blame other people or outside forces.
Repression is another well-known defense mechanism. Repression acts to keep information out of conscious awareness. (i.e. selective memory regarding conversations or acts with the OM/OW) Sometimes we do this consciously by forcing the unwanted information out of our awareness, which is known as suppression, but it is usually believed to occur unconsciously.
Sublimation, Displacement, Projection and Intellectualization are other defense mechanisms which play small parts in the process of mental self protection in affair or addiction situations…
Often the DS attributes “outside forces” to what happened that lead to an affair, (i.e. "it just happened") Outside forces don’t get people into these situations. But “inside forces” can… I’m just saying this is a powerful thing.
In the end, A person is responsible their actions and the decisions they made to get to that point. I only mentioned what I did to point out that your brain + affairs (oxyticon, dopamine, etc) love drugs) are dangerous, situations. It could happen to almost anyone, don’t kid yourself.
Unless you are mentally ill it's a choice like everything else in the world drugs, porn, money, affairs, you name it.
Just because you can link feelings of euphoria to chemicals doesn't change one thing!!
Unless you are mentally ill it's a choice like everything else in the world drugs, porn, money, affairs, you name it.
Just because you can link feelings of euphoria to chemicals doesn't change one thing!!
Im honestly not even sure what your saying? I didn't claim it changed anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit-of-my-stomach (original post)
I’m just saying this is a powerful thing.
In the end, A person is responsible their actions and the decisions they made to get to that point. I only mentioned what I did to point out that your brain + affairs (oxyticon, dopamine, etc) love drugs) are dangerous, situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit-of-my-stomach (second post)
I don't explain any of this because of justification for my wifes actions...
I have educated myself on some of these things and shared some of what I've learned with you because it helps me cope with this situation.
I'm a little lost on what you're calling "foggy talk". Are you suggesting that if someone feels any of the things in your list, they aren't actually feeling them, they're merely in a fog (e.g. confused by the brain's chemical response to love)?
Thanks. New to the board and had been searching on the term "foggy talk" and coming up empty. Read up on it a bit and it sounds like nothing more than pseudoscience.
Any betrayed spouse can tell you precisely when and how this "pseudoscience" fog has affected their wayward spouse. I personally know exactly what it means, and I think it is the perfect term for the way my W acted once she found herself on the path of her affair. It prevented her from being able to admit what she did was just plain wrong, it permitted her to rewrite our own marital history in her head, it allowed her to make ridiculous threats about dishing the dirt on me when I started telling her family about her affair(s), it encouraged her to turn everything all back on me as if I was the disrespectful one for ignoring her needs (and of course it was MY fault that she couldn't meet my impossible needs such as, you know, sitting down as a family atleast once a month to eat a meal, which I make btw). It is no more pseudoscience than the term "infidelity" itself.
Thanks. New to the board and had been searching on the term "foggy talk" and coming up empty. Read up on it a bit and it sounds like nothing more than pseudoscience.
Well the term "foggy talk" was just an expression I made up. So I don't assume you will find much in your searches using that term. It's a pseudoterm. lol.
There is a very common script for what someone in an affair says and does. Those are all examples.
No, Its doesn't mean that they (DS) don't feel a certain way (at a given time) it means that the way that they feel is influenced by a very powerful chemical reaction in someones brain. It means that someone's logic, ability to reason, and thier decision making, has been comprimised.
There is a very common script for what someone in an affair says and does. Those are all examples.
I suspect that's true. However, there's a pretty common script for what people do in ALL relationships, not just affairs. People tend to interact in similar ways... after all, we're all human and tend to relate to each other in a typical fashion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit-of-my-stomach
No, Its doesn't mean that they (DS) don't feel a certain way (at a given time) it means that the way that they feel is influenced by a very powerful chemical reaction in someones brain. It means that someone's logic, ability to reason, and thier decision making, has been comprimised.
Well, this is why I called it pseudoscience. I read your OP, as well as a few other articles on the topic. Here's my take on it and why I disagree with the whole notion of an "affair fog".
We would agree that there's a chemical reaction that takes place in the brain when we fall in love. However, this chemical reaction (the release of dopamine, etc.), in and of itself, is not unique to infidelity, it's a reaction to love. So, the implication that this reaction is specifically tied to affairs, is misleading. Let's keep in mind, people in love constantly make bad decisions, cut friends out of their life, etc.
Second, you said, "...in affair situations your mind IS ON DRUGS". That's a grand overstatement. If this was true, people in love would not be allowed to drive a car or operate heavy machinery.
Third, you tie in Freud's theories, in order to lend this "theory" some gravitas. However, let's not forget, Freud was a neurologist from the early 1900s. Most of his theories have been debunked by modern science. Basing a modern day theory on what Freud knew and understood about the way the mind works, would be like building a modern day war plane based on what the Wright brothers understood about flight.
Ultimately, this whole concept is based on the idea that the chemical response is unique to an affair (it isn't), the overstated idea that your brain is on drugs (it isn't really), and cementing it all with an early 19th century neurologist's understanding of brain function (probably not a good idea).
OK, then how do you explain the apparent lack of so many people in affairs to be able to see reality? I'm not getting into the technical stuff of a mind. But the "fog" seems to explain a lot of how my wife acted. It seems to be a common thing on here with many threads. They get so wrapped up in the affair, that nothing else in their life really matters. I've had different counsellors compare it to a crack cocaine addiction.
I always called it having my head up my a@@ when I was in my affair and post D Day until I found this site - "The Fog" sounds so much nicer. Having been through it, I'll say it was very real, at least for me.
I suspect that's true. However, there's a pretty common script for what people do in ALL relationships, not just affairs. People tend to interact in similar ways... after all, we're all human and tend to relate to each other in a typical fashion.
Well, this is why I called it pseudoscience. I read your OP, as well as a few other articles on the topic. Here's my take on it and why I disagree with the whole notion of an "affair fog".
We would agree that there's a chemical reaction that takes place in the brain when we fall in love. However, this chemical reaction (the release of dopamine, etc.), in and of itself, is not unique to infidelity, it's a reaction to love. So, the implication that this reaction is specifically tied to affairs, is misleading. Let's keep in mind, people in love constantly make bad decisions, cut friends out of their life, etc.
Second, you said, "...in affair situations your mind IS ON DRUGS". That's a grand overstatement. If this was true, people in love would not be allowed to drive a car or operate heavy machinery.
Third, you tie in Freud's theories, in order to lend this "theory" some gravitas. However, let's not forget, Freud was a neurologist from the early 1900s. Most of his theories have been debunked by modern science. Basing a modern day theory on what Freud knew and understood about the way the mind works, would be like building a modern day war plane based on what the Wright brothers understood about flight.
Ultimately, this whole concept is based on the idea that the chemical response is unique to an affair (it isn't), the overstated idea that your brain is on drugs (it isn't really), and cementing it all with an early 19th century neurologist's understanding of brain function (probably not a good idea).
^^^^I agree with all of this. Posted via Mobile Device
OK, then how do you explain the apparent lack of so many people in affairs to be able to see reality? I'm not getting into the technical stuff of a mind. But the "fog" seems to explain a lot of how my wife acted. It seems to be a common thing on here with many threads. They get so wrapped up in the affair, that nothing else in their life really matters.
I won't pretend to know the answers to this. I just don't think the theory being suggested makes sense, for the reasons I listed.
That said, why even bother to distinguish people in affairs from people in new relationships? How many times has someone you know started ignoring their friends because they were so into the new person in their life? How many women do you know who exclusively date men who are jerks? How many men do you know who end up whipped? People in love do dumb things. It's the nature of the beast. An affair becomes an affair because the people involved have fallen for one another. I'm not sure it's really any more complicated than that.
OK, then how do you explain the apparent lack of so many people in affairs to be able to see reality? I'm not getting into the technical stuff of a mind. But the "fog" seems to explain a lot of how my wife acted. It seems to be a common thing on here with many threads. They get so wrapped up in the affair, that nothing else in their life really matters. I've had different counsellors compare it to a crack cocaine addiction.
Well Hurt my SO told me she wasn't in a fog. She said that she was a selfish horrible b*tch who was thinking of no one but herself.
I'm happy to discuss this with you at length. I hope to be able to find time to address anything you want to discuss. I'm not a scientist or psychologist, I'm not writing a paper and don't have professional capitol tied to being right or wrong about this. I'd just assume none of this ever happened to me and I never felt compelled to find answers to these questions which have haunted my life.
Have you been or are you involved in an extra maritial realtionship? or has your significant other been involved in one and that is what is driving your interest in the subject?
If you want to have an intelligent open minded conversation about these things, I would love to engage with you. Obviously, I have an interest. You've taken a decidedly aggresive approach to objecting to the facts and opinions I've offered. That is obviously fine, even good if your coming from the 'right' place.
It would help for me to understand what angle your coming from. I'm not interesting in trying to change your mind or force anything down your throat if your determined to disagree. In that case your going to bounce around and find a "weak spot" to exploit. Your going to believe what you want or need too.
Start with...
The comment about "drugs" being a grand overstatement. If anything it's an understatement. The example you use about someone not being allowed to drive is absurd. I think you know that but you use that example to hit home a point your trying to make. Fine, nice showmanship.
I think that the last stat I saw said that over 10% of the population is on anti-depressants, and in general up to 50% of the population is on some type of perscription medication at any given time. This says nothing about over the counter drugs which could increase the numbers over 75%. So 3 out of 4 people in the US are on "drugs" at any given time. Depending on the drug, the effects on the individual vary widely. Most drive.
Dopamine along with the other chemicals that are naturally released by your brain are drugs. Dopamine's power is amazing. Some perscription drugs and most addictive "street drugs" produce or stimulate the production of high levels of dopamine in the brain. This production of dopamine IS what people are addicted to. Addictive drugs flood the brain with dopamine and condition us to expect artificially high levels of the neurotransmitter. Over time, the user's brain requires more dopamine than it can naturally produce, and it becomes dependent on the drug.
The drug is just the vehicle for it's production. Affairs are also a vehicle for the production of massive amounts of dopamine. It's addictive properties don't change based on what is delivering it.
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Originally Posted by SoWhatNow
Ultimately, this whole concept is based on the idea that the chemical response is unique to an affair (it isn't)
Dopamine production or it's addiction is not unique to affairs, that's rediculous. None of these things are unique to affairs, they are simply present in them. We are on an infidelity forum, we are discussing affairs and infidelity. Dopamine production and it's effects are very much present in affairs, That was the reason for this discussion here.
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Re: Never say Never 
