Hee hee hee. I've been watching this thread, as I'm sure so many others have. Waiting for you to kick her up the arse (so to speak). It's so fun to see a LS who isn't broken up and tormented and downtrodden...inspiration to us all! Well done! If I was there, I would buy you a drink and shake your hand.
Are you challenging your disloyal partner for cheating on the internet in the same way?
I think people have to be careful about laughing or goading others into actions that can have devasting long term life changing consequences.
In just 10 months of marriage this man has learned some terrible things about his wife. I just hope he gives himself some time to let the dust settle before rushing off into the sunset too quickly as he seems to be doing.
We are discussing two people's lives and at least Andrew has said he still loves this women but, he seems shocked and is trying to protect himself and live within his own standards.
Relationships are about give and take and it is wrong for any spouse or partner to cheat behind another's back without being taken to task, or suffering some backlash or consequences. Otherwise, a LS can set themself up to be seen as a doormat where the responsibility for a disloyal's behaviour is shifted onto another person, usually the OW/OM instead of tackling the disloyal's unacceptable behaviour. At the moment she is blame shifting as opposed to accepting responsibility and is following the well trodden path of infidelity behaviour during disclosure.
Are you challenging your disloyal partner for cheating on the internet in the same way?
I think people have to be careful about laughing or goading others into actions that can have devasting long term life changing consequences.
In just 10 months of marriage this man has learned some terrible things about his wife. I just hope he gives himself some time to let the dust settle before rushing off into the sunset too quickly as he seems to be doing.
We are discussing two people's lives and at least Andrew has said he still loves this women but, he seems shocked and is trying to protect himself and live within his own standards.
Relationships are about give and take and it is wrong for any spouse or partner to cheat behind another's back without being taken to task, or suffering some backlash or consequences. Otherwise, a LS can set themself up to be seen as a doormat where the responsibility for a disloyal's behaviour is shifted onto another person, usually the OW/OM instead of tackling the disloyal's unacceptable behaviour. At the moment she is blame shifting as opposed to accepting responsibility and is following the well trodden path of infidelity behaviour during disclosure.
I think what Xena means, is that it is nice to see a person handle everything right for once. It is empowering to see a person who has made steps to process things in a logical manner without over-disecting the emotional problems.
It would be no different if a person in an OPPOSITE scenario had done everything right to save his/her marriage.
What do we crave most after an affair? DATA. how, when, where, who, can i save... should i save.. what happens now...
Half the time we get data, then put in "but what if..." and thent he data becomes corrupt. IMHO, ANdrew is getting a lot of Data, and taking that information to form an action plan. Ultimately he will make his own choice, given the data. Just like buying a car. Everyone has their favorite car, but that doesnt mean there is a "best car" for humanity.
Excuse me "Undertake a campain to future hurt her" , where is his WW hurting, she has been caught in an affair, this option gives Andrew the choice to breaking the affair and when his head is clear and should his wife show true remorse he can decide if he wants to recover the marriage. It furthermore allows him to set the record straight before she tries to destroy his good name. Posted via Mobile Device
Fair enough, poor choice of language on my part.
My point is that it's a short marriage, no kids, and he seems okay with moving on. Disclosure to friends and family is a tactic to try and end an affair where the betrayed spouse wants to reconcile. You're advocating it as a way of getting revenge, which is not healthy.
Not healthy. but living a good life is the best revenge you will get.
Im not gonna lie, It feels great knowing i am living a great life and my first wife is not. Now I didnt do anything to make her life that way, but I'd like to think that the guy upstairs gave me the "nod" on that one.
andrew, if you don't want her back, there's no point exposing. Unless she is going out and besmirching your name, in which case you're perfectly warranted in sharing the 'good news' with those people about what she's really up to.
Yesterday my DS begged me to meet with her to "talk things over". I reiterated my request that for us to have any sort of meaningful discussion, she would have to admit what has happened -- no more lies.
She said she did have a lot to tell me, so I agreed to meet her for a cup of coffee. She tried to upgrade the meeting to a long lunch excursion in a fancy place, but I declined. We met at a simple cafe. (I just had a cappuccino and a water.)
What she gave me was a disappointing camouflage onslaught: that she loved me and that I was mistaken about "Carlo" -- she has never stepped out on me.
So I again asked about her emotional unavailability and irritability over the past two months, the emails, the texts, the secret hotel receipts, the date-stamped photo of shirtless "Carlo" on a bed next to her distinctive suitcase. Still evasion, still all my imagination. (!!!) I haven't shown her copies yet, apart from the one photo of "Carlo", but I had put more than enough facts on the table so that she has to know she has been truly "found out".
She even said that to "prove it" to me, she'd like to have our child as soon as we can do it. She tried to smother me with kisses and hugs.
She put on an excellent performance. I nearly fell for it.
I told her again that I cannot live in a marriage of three people, or with a wife I cannot trust, and for us to have any meaningful discussion, she'd have to come clean. Of course I would be upset, but I promised not to be angry. I told her I know more about what has been going on than she might suppose, so much of it won't be a shock any more.
She didn't take me up on my offer, choosing to instead call me "cold" and "unemotional". The only time it got tough was when I said the truth will come out in the legal process eventually, so it would be better now than then. Of course, legal papers are public documents, and while I wouldn't be advertising them beyond the family, anyone can have access to them.
The threat of "public" exposure seems to worried her somehow. She then tried to misconstrue this as about me being after her money or wanting to punish "Carlo" out of misplaced jealousy. While I did say that I wouldn't mind seeing "Carlo" suffer the legal equivalent of a punch in the nose, I stressed that I really wasn't after anything from her other than the truth and a mutually respectful separation and disentanglement. She doesn't seem to get this.
She wrote me a long, rambling and emotional email today that was both hot and cold. I responded with a nice but cool and succinct reiteration of where we are and why, that I am leaving town, that if we can show each other some basic respect, the process doesn't have to be so problematic or embarrassing for everyone.
I am still shaking my head in a combination of incredulity, sadness, frustration and hurt. The fact she still can't admit what has happened -- even in one sentence, without gory details -- is truly beyond my comprehension.
I also don't know how she can profess to want me back so passionately when she basically treated me like dirt for two months and had such emotion and passion with "Carlo". Something is unauthentic here, to say the least. Maybe everything is fake.
I am getting very fatigued at this continued emotional whiplash.
I am continuing on the course towards formal separation.
This indicates to me that either you never really loved her, or you are acting out of hurt. Maybe both?
She's treated you abominably as often is the case when a disloyal spouse cheats on a loyal spouse. Betrayal is her way to handle an issue. Shows poor character. Look at history. Those who betray are usually shown nothing but contempt. That is maybe where you are right now?
That's what I was going to say. You can only hurt people so much until they stop respecting you. Once you lose someone's respect, you lose their love.
Good for you Andrew! I respect people who are able to see reality instead of being set on winning their SO's back. If only you were 20 years younger...
Anyway this woman is obviously a compulsive liar and mentally unstable, so the best thing you can do is steer clear. Stay as far away from her as possible.
Why would a cheating spouse not treat you abominably? That's their nature. I've never understood why people think that their cheating spouse should be a kind reasonable humane compassionate person in every other dimension. I mean other than THAT, Mrs. Kennedy, how was the motorcade?
...... that she loved me and that I was mistaken about "Carlo" -- she has never stepped out on me.
She even said that to "prove it" to me, she'd like to have our child as soon as we can do it. She tried to smother me with kisses and hugs.
She put on an excellent performance. I nearly fell for it.
.
That's not proof. Ask for a meeting with Carlo his wife and both of you to prove their fidelity...or infidelity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
... call me "cold" and "unemotional". .
Blame shifting
...typical behaviour of a disloyal spouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
The threat of "public" exposure seems to worried her somehow. She then tried to misconstrue this as about me being after her money or wanting to punish "Carlo" out of misplaced jealousy.
.
Worried because her lies will be exposed and blame shifting...again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
I stressed that I really wasn't after anything from her other than the truth and a mutually respectful separation and disentanglement. She doesn't seem to get this.
.
In the fog? Your statement also express you don't seem to want her so she goes on the defensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
She wrote me a long, rambling and emotional email today that was both hot and cold. .
It would be good for other disloyals to voice their views on why some disloyals blow hot and cold with mixed messages. Are disloyals mentally agitated and in a state of mental anguish and cognitive impairment when exposed and is there a build up of mental ill heath because of all the lying and betrayal during the affair?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
I am getting very fatigued at this continued emotional whiplash.
I am continuing on the course towards formal separation.
Give yourself time. Look at Jar's thread - he didn't get fatigued within days after exposure. Patience is needed Andrew. You are hurt naturally. Stay on your path if that is what you want to do but make sure you don't regret never having given her time to come clean. She is probably in shock because she thought she could have her cake and eat it and now she's been caught and you maybe experiencing a Jekyll and Hyde effect that some disloyals seem to go through.
Whatever you do Andrew do not let her walk over you, being nice does not say let her abuse you. I still say tell her parents, family and a couple of good friends of the affair,do not mess about with the words and mention the OM by name. Keep to a high level summary of the evidence, the evidence is not open to debate and scrutiny, they can deal with her so you can focus on what you want.
Yeah, you might want to give her folks a call and let them know ahead of time why you'll be separating. She will be SURE to tell them that YOU are evil, abusive, cheating, whatever she can think of to put ALL the blame on you so that nothing you say will be believed.
The thing to understand is that active affairs are like addictions. Addicts do all sorts of insane things to keep their addiction going. She's on script as far as denial and deflection goes. Until she comes down from the addiction and hits bottom, expect more of the same.
Like I said before, if you want to salvage the relationship, you can help accelerate her hitting bottom by disclosing to family, certainly to the OM's wife, if he has one, and being unavailable. If you are ready to be done with the relationship, then I'd just continue on the steps you are taking to move on.
Given the relatively short marriage, no kids, and your ages, I wouldn't personally put in the effort to fix it. What's the point? It's different after a long marriage with many emotional/financial/logistical entanglements.
Yesterday my DS begged me to meet with her to "talk things over". I reiterated my request that for us to have any sort of meaningful discussion, she would have to admit what has happened -- no more lies.
Did you really expect her not to lie?
Quote:
She said she did have a lot to tell me, so I agreed to meet her for a cup of coffee. She tried to upgrade the meeting to a long lunch excursion in a fancy place, but I declined. We met at a simple cafe. (I just had a cappuccino and a water.)
Was it Starbucks?
Quote:
What she gave me was a disappointing camouflage onslaught: that she loved me and that I was mistaken about "Carlo" -- she has never stepped out on me.
If she loved you, you wouldn't have gotten to this point, at least, not this quickly.
Quote:
So I again asked about her emotional unavailability and irritability over the past two months, the emails, the texts, the secret hotel receipts, the date-stamped photo of shirtless "Carlo" on a bed next to her distinctive suitcase. Still evasion, still all my imagination. (!!!) I haven't shown her copies yet, apart from the one photo of "Carlo", but I had put more than enough facts on the table so that she has to know she has been truly "found out".
You should've showed them to her, maybe the conversation would've been a bit more productive.
Quote:
She even said that to "prove it" to me, she'd like to have our child as soon as we can do it. She tried to smother me with kisses and hugs.
She put on an excellent performance. I nearly fell for it.
Don't you let her have a child for you, for your sake and the kid's. You will never rid yourself of her and the kid will grow unbalanced.
Quote:
I told her again that I cannot live in a marriage of three people, or with a wife I cannot trust, and for us to have any meaningful discussion, she'd have to come clean. Of course I would be upset, but I promised not to be angry. I told her I know more about what has been going on than she might suppose, so much of it won't be a shock any more.
You should never promise not to be angry, not matter what the situation. If you have to promise not to be angry, whatever you're about to hear will no doubt make you angry.
Quote:
She didn't take me up on my offer, choosing to instead call me "cold" and "unemotional". The only time it got tough was when I said the truth will come out in the legal process eventually, so it would be better now than then. Of course, legal papers are public documents, and while I wouldn't be advertising them beyond the family, anyone can have access to them.
It likely will have to get to this point and you know what, as far as she's concerned, it's going to be all your fault.
Quote:
The threat of "public" exposure seems to worried her somehow. She then tried to misconstrue this as about me being after her money or wanting to punish "Carlo" out of misplaced jealousy. While I did say that I wouldn't mind seeing "Carlo" suffer the legal equivalent of a punch in the nose, I stressed that I really wasn't after anything from her other than the truth and a mutually respectful separation and disentanglement. She doesn't seem to get this.
Don't you make a good bit of money? I'm curious, at this point, are you bringing up Carlo or is she?
Quote:
She wrote me a long, rambling and emotional email today that was both hot and cold. I responded with a nice but cool and succinct reiteration of where we are and why, that I am leaving town, that if we can show each other some basic respect, the process doesn't have to be so problematic or embarrassing for everyone.
Wow, someone's actually skipped town. That's not what she wants and I think you know that. She wants this to be messy.
Quote:
I am still shaking my head in a combination of incredulity, sadness, frustration and hurt. The fact she still can't admit what has happened -- even in one sentence, without gory details -- is truly beyond my comprehension.
I also don't know how she can profess to want me back so passionately when she basically treated me like dirt for two months and had such emotion and passion with "Carlo". Something is unauthentic here, to say the least. Maybe everything is fake.
I think I have a bead on the "little lady," I've talked about hitting bottom a few times and I think she has. The difference with her is that, while I believe that hitting bottom is a tool to force you to pull yourself up, it's where she wants to be. She doesn't want to become something more, doesn't want to evolve. She just wants to sit there with the vile retches such as Carlo, I don't know if there's been any past trauma but she doesn't have any real feelings for you because she doesn't want to feel anything real. She wants to sit there with Carlo and sport **** not make love, she wants to clash not connect, she wants to scream not talk. You offered her to come clean and won't bring herself to do it, you've done what you can.
I am getting very fatigued at this continued emotional whiplash.
I am continuing on the course towards formal separation.
The stock is going south and the closing bell is about to be rung.
You know how some people forget about their 401k sometimes, if they were with a company for a short period? Well thats ok, as long as they werent with the company for 20 years.
You may never see your initial investment back, but you dont want to pour anything more into it. My advice... diversify and invest in other options so that you arent tanked by one stock.
No, seriously.. drop the chicky.
i cant believe she pulled the "let's make babies" thing on ya.. You need to make a T-Shirt that says " Lets make babies" and wear it to your first court appearence.
Well, I left town last night, with my important luggage. (I'll be back in two weeks for a logistical visit, staying in the hotel.)
This has been another very strange week. Again, she can't seem to understand what I am doing -- it's not in her game-plan.
She calls and texts me literally 25 times a day, alternatively nice, questioning, and aggressive. I pick up about every 5th time (if I am not doing anything else) and respond in a civil manner, even throwing in a few ordinary pleasantries.
After she berates me for not wanting to talk to "your wife" and the usual charge of being cold and "incommunicative", she then seems to want to talk. This usually means (again) telling me she can't talk to me. (Isn't that a wonderful paradox -- call someone to give him heck that you can't talk to him!)
Last night she knew I was going to the airport for the red-eye back east, so she offered to give me a lift there. I said no thanks, but if she wanted to meet in the cafe of the hotel for a bit before I left, I could do that. She said she didn't want to be slotted into my life like a business appointment. I said fine, I wouldn't trouble her then.
She did show up early, almost demanding to take me to the airport. We sat down at the cafe, talked (mostly calmly) at each other for an hour. She said nothing of interest, just aggressive defensiveness, how I was leaving for no reason at all. When I tried to tell her that it appears that we have some big problems in our marriage that would be very difficult to resolve, she acted more like a prosecuting attorney than someone who would like to accept some joint responsibility and gain clarity. I again declined her offer to take me to the airport, almost having to push her away from my luggage. Even in the taxi she called me twice to ask to come back and let her drive me.
Today I am back in my old home, and the phone calls and texts started early. Again, alternatively warm and cold, calm and aggressive. And the main theme is how uncommunicative I am, with some threat that she has lost her patience with me and won't bother calling me again. I am not biting at this provocation.
She continues to deny anything but casual conversation with Carlo.
Rarely in any of this does she ever say anything like "I am sorry for what I have done. I obviously have hurt you and our relationship significantly. Whatever happens, I hope you know that I realize I was stupid, etc etc.". I know I will never hear this, and I am not holding my breath. What I am feeling, what my situation is, haven't seemed that important in our marriage.
But this whole month long episode of "I hate you -- don't leave me" sounds an awful lot like the "borderline personality disorder" set out in the book by the same name (that I just found on Amazon). I thought she was just shallow, a cheater, didn't love me, and/or had some major emotional baggage issues. I now wonder whether she has much bigger psychological problems.
Just as a small example, has anyone else ever dealt with a person who gets worked up, professes a strong desire to talk, but doesn't listen and only offers judgments and pronouncements, and then condemns YOU for being impossible to talk to? What's the psychosis here?
Needless to say, I am still feeling rattled, and hurt, but while I am at a complete loss to comprehend what has been happening, I am much less confused than I was 10 days ago.
Re: I just found out. I am crushed. 
