I have a phrase that I would like you to memorize, Andrew. It will put an end to all her texting, calling and emailing.
Literally EVERY time that she communicates with you in any way, reply (here's the phrase to memorize): "I will only have a spouse in my life who will give ALL of their affection and loyalty only to me--as promised in the marriage vows. Are you ready to give me 100% of your affection and loyalty? Oh, you're not? Contact when you are--goodbye." CLICK! (turn off the cell for a while).
I know it's not rational or reasonable but it is EXTREMELY rare for a disloyal spouse to admit that what they've done is wrong or apologize WHILE they are in their fog (see this EXCELLENT thread by Pit-of-my-stomach about what fog is: Never say Never ). While she is still addicted she can and will do anything she can to try to snag you, trick you, manipulate you, or control you back into "the way it was" so she can have her cake and eat it too.
So every single time she calls, texts, emails etc. send her the exact same message:
"I will only have a spouse in my life who will give ALL of their affection and loyalty only to me--as promised in the marriage vows. Are you ready to give me 100% of your affection and loyalty? Oh, you're not? Contact when you are--goodbye." CLICK.
Leave her alone, let the lawyers handle it. I wouldn't even respond to her when she contacts you anymore except for one last time to say, "Don't call me, I'll call you."
I wonder why the hell was she so intent on driving you? Curious.
After she berates me for not wanting to talk to "your wife" and the usual charge of being cold and "incommunicative", she then seems to want to talk. This usually means (again) telling me she can't talk to me. (Isn't that a wonderful paradox -- call someone to give him heck that you can't talk to him!)
This illustrates how nuts the situation is. She want to pull the "your wife" card?
Seriously? As if she has earned some kind of deference by screwing around on "her husband"?
I wonder why the hell was she so intent on driving you? Curious.
Beats me too!
The only reason I can think of is the "control" issue. Looking back, she has been a minor-league control freak with me since before we got married. Maybe this is her way of seeming to maintain some control over a situation that is slipping seriously and permanently out of her hands ...
This illustrates how nuts the situation is. She want to pull the "your wife" card?
Seriously? As if she has earned some kind of deference by screwing around on "her husband"?
Seriously.
Well, it's all very consistent in her head: she didn't cheat, the emails and photos were from three years ago (even though they were date-stamped Dec 2010 and Jan 2011!), she happened upon the beach hotel on a Saturday night when she was depressed and went for a drive (three hours away! -- and what about that expensive dinner?). So it's all my imagination. She swears that she never saw "Carlo" that weekend.
And then, what the hell was I doing looking through all of her electronics! What an invasion of privacy! What a paranoid creep I am!
So the faux loyal wife suffers at an inexplicable communication gap with her husband ...
Most of the time I say, try to work it out, some way some how. I feel very strongly that she is very sick in the head. If I were you I would talk to people in her past. Ask some info on what they think about her mind. I say run do not walk to the lawyers, and file now, right now. She needs help, it's just that, you can't help her with this. I think she needs major inpatient treatment. Its not just the cheating, and you know this now. I have a very strong 5th sense about this. It's screaming at me , she maybe up to something bad. Look out, I think you should not be with her alone right now. She is the kind of person so lie to other people about s**t that never went on.
I have a very strong 5th sense about this. It's screaming at me , she maybe up to something bad. Look out, I think you should not be with her alone right now. She is the kind of person so lie to other people about s**t that never went on.
And that's why I say don't respond to her, you'll contact her if you have something to say or the lawyers will. This way, she can't set anything up or ensnare you. Hell, she just may do something like come out to where you are, be on guard for that as well.
In regards to her history, I've said it before, her family's reaction to your relationship will tell you all you need to know. You said that she was estranged from her brother and father, Andrew2011, was it a case of them being bad people or do you get the sense that they're well balanced but just don't communicate?
In regards to her history, I've said it before, her family's reaction to your relationship will tell you all you need to know. You said that she was estranged from her brother and father, Andrew2011, was it a case of them being bad people or do you get the sense that they're well balanced but just don't communicate?
I have only met father and brother once, and they actually seemed ok. The dad screwed around on the mother and left the family when my wife was young, so he is hardly a role model of anything. But he doesn't seem like a complete jerk or a nut-case. The brother is more difficult to assess, he and my wife had some mysterious falling out some 10-15 years ago and have barely talked. (Maybe she turned on him?) He didn't seem crazy when I met him. Certainly I have met the wife of the brother on two social occasions and she seems very real, normal and warm, and she and the brother clearly get along wonderfully, so that has to be some positive reflection on the brother.
But the common denominator of all of my wife's family relationships can be expressed in two almost inconsistent words: SHALLOW and DRAMATIC.
I don't know if I will be able to get any useful information from any of these family members.
And with her professional colleagues, she puts on an amazingly charming and disciplined face -- almost like she is acting, or is in relief mode from real life. They seem to love her. But it's all kind of superficial or two-dimensional with them. I doubt many of them will see any more than a few cracks in the mask of Dr Jekyll.
I spoke with one of her senior professional colleagues (with whom I became friendly over the year) about her stepping out on our marriage, just to put a stake in the ground when she starts a disinformation campaign against me.
He was very sympathetic, surprised but perhaps not shocked. I told him that it was difficult for her to admit to the truth. He didn't say anything about her character, but did concur completely that without truth there is nothing.
Unfortunately, the best data points I have are the non-existent ones: the series of apparent healthy, deep, normal relationships that people build up in a life, but that she DOESN'T appear to have. For her, I count two (2) or three (3) at most. But even those could have been situational too, easy for her to compartmentalize and manage.
The only people who seem to have been let into the interior of her maze have been "Carlo", "George" and me. As I have previously mentioned, those two guys wouldn't win any awards for stability or decency themselves.
Seeing as you are still communiating with her, on a very low level... it may be worth your while to answer her next phone call like this :
"Hey, I know that you have a lot to say and that you are not happy with the way this is going, but you should be aware that we are in a place where communication is not productive. Next time you call, if you want to start by accepting some responsibility, I might be more inclined to listen to what you have to say. As it stands, I am not really interested."
And at that point, thank her for calling, and say good bye.
"Next time you call, if you want to start by accepting some responsibility, I might be more inclined to listen to what you have to say.
Actually, I tried that twice. She said "accept responsibility for what"? When I told her, she said, "I can't accept responsibility for something that didn't happen!"
I have a major case of delusion/denial/fog-bound person here. I am not trying to change her any more, she clearly has significant issues with reality.
I have only met father and brother once, and they actually seemed ok. The dad screwed around on the mother and left the family when my wife was young, so he is hardly a role model of anything. But he doesn't seem like a complete jerk or a nut-case. The brother is more difficult to assess, he and my wife had some mysterious falling out some 10-15 years ago and have barely talked. (Maybe she turned on him?) He didn't seem crazy when I met him. Certainly I have met the wife of the brother on two social occasions and she seems very real, normal and warm, and she and the brother clearly get along wonderfully, so that has to be some positive reflection on the brother.
Was she old enough to conceive what happened with her parents? Her brother, that's interesting mostly because it's mysterious. Her age when her father left and the type of falling out she had with her brother will tell you a lot more about her. Does it seem as if her mother may have been male bashing at one point or another to her daughter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
But the common denominator of all of my wife's family relationships can be expressed in two almost inconsistent words: SHALLOW and DRAMATIC.
That says a lot, she's either in with both feet and but there a lot of friction or she wants nothing to do with that person. How do the other people in the dramatic relationships seem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
I don't know if I will be able to get any useful information from any of these family members.
If you're serious about divorce, I wouldn't bother to pry unless you need to build a case for her mental/emotional stability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
And with her professional colleagues, she puts on an amazingly charming and disciplined face -- almost like she is acting, or is in relief mode from real life. They seem to love her. But it's all kind of superficial or two-dimensional with them. I doubt many of them will see any more than a few cracks in the mask of Dr Jekyll.
That's not surprising, she'll want to put on a facade for those at work. If for nothing else, it makes work a bit easier if people don't think you're nuts. Simple Truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
I spoke with one of her senior professional colleagues (with whom I became friendly over the year) about her stepping out on our marriage, just to put a stake in the ground when she starts a disinformation campaign against me.
He was very sympathetic, surprised but perhaps not shocked. I told him that it was difficult for her to admit to the truth. He didn't say anything about her character, but did concur completely that without truth there is nothing.
Well, in this day and age, would divorce really shock you anymore? He may have been looking under the guise that she was happy and assumed that you both were happy since he'd likely see more of her than you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2011
Unfortunately, the best data points I have are the non-existent ones: the series of apparent healthy, deep, normal relationships that people build up in a life, but that she DOESN'T appear to have. For her, I count two (2) or three (3) at most. But even those could have been situational too, easy for her to compartmentalize and manage.
The only people who seem to have been let into the interior of her maze have been "Carlo", "George" and me. As I have previously mentioned, those two guys wouldn't win any awards for stability or decency themselves.
George? Please tell me he was before the marriage.
Was she old enough to conceive what happened with her parents? Her brother, that's interesting mostly because it's mysterious. Her age when her father left and the type of falling out she had with her brother will tell you a lot more about her. Does it seem as if her mother may have been male bashing at one point or another to her daughter?
....
George? Please tell me he was before the marriage.
She was just a toddler, so didn't have any idea what was going on with her parents, although she certainly felt the absence of dad growing up.
Her mother strikes me as being kind, if a little jaded (no surprise), so she might have done some inadvertent male-bashing.
With regard to George, he was out four years or so before the marriage. See post #22 above.
Did she have any men around growing up to learn how to interact with a man?
No, apart from her brother (who doesn't count), there doesn't appear to have been any man around.
I am not a psychologist, so can't say exactly what's going on in her head -- but she has major relationship "issues" for sure. I only wish I had picked up on their existence earlier ...
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