She had her first MC visit yesterday. It ran pretty long. Met our kids for a nice dinner afterwards, We talked a while when we got home. She asked questions about things the C said. Whether I had told her that she wasn't the type of person (Whatever the type would be) to have an affair. I told her I had been completely honest with the counselor for my own benefit and yes, I had said that. Little things like that.
She's still planning on moving out temporarily. I feel it will be permanent when she goes. C advised her to not get into a relationship. She said she didn't want to, just wanted to be alone to work on herself.
She told me last night that she still has feelings for OM. That when she called to get closure, that they didn't get to discuss that and it remains a question for her. That's hard for me to take, but it's probably a natural reaction on some twisted level.
I reminded her of his part in the game, and how he changed his tune when she started to shy away from him. He didn't trick her, she was a willing participant, but I reminded her that he was sleeping with my wife, his wife, and another girl all at the same time. Sounds like a great guy, and solid, lifelong relationship material.
Told her last night that I had though about finding someone for some grudge sex to get out all of my anger and frustrations. I know that wouldn't do a thing for us, and would lower me to her level.
I told her that out of self preservation, I have been convincing myself that it's over, and planning a life without her in it. I remind myself of how she stole my self esteem and security, and messed me up for future women. I remindd myself that she was screwing this guy (No condom, he'd had a vasectomy just like me!) in a truck early mornings before work after I had helped her out the door, fixing her coffee and getting her lunch ready before getting ready for work myself.
Told her that's the only way for me to keep from going insane is to get myself hard and plan for the end. She said something to the effect that we don't know it's over. A little spark lit up in my heart. Stupid me! All it takes is something small for me to start hoping again.
She called on her way to work, and we discussed him some more. I stood firm on my point of what kind of person he showed himself to be, and pointed out that he chose to be with his wife and daughter instead of her. I also reminded her that he'd probably be screwing around on her if she was with him. She said she needs to discuss this with the counselor.
Is it natural for the cheater to still have feelings? She said she didn't love me before, Part of that was from believing that an EA I had years ago was a PA. That has now been cleared up, but it made it easier for her. She told me that she used it as justification for what she did.
How does one go about getting an AIDS test? The idiot had unprotected sex with a guy who gets around and then brought it back home to me. This is worrying the hell out of me. Are there over the counter tests, or do I need to see a doctor?
My appointment with MC is tomorrow, and I want to discuss my hard and ready plan. I explained to W this morning that I understand where she is right now, bt that I want her to understand my self preservation plan. That I can't continue to hang in limbo until she makes a decision, and have to look out for my sanity. If she waits too long, it will be too late. I will be lost to her with no desire for reconciliation. She seems to understand that.
Yes, go see a doctor. Then you will know for certain that you did or did not catch anything and it will be a relief to have that information. It might even help you with the resentment that she could have given you something.
I (IMO) would say that you are doing the right thing by focusing on yourself. You will find some posts here about the 180 plan. Read a bit about it. It discusses how to handle a disloyal spouse. She may still be in the fog of the affair, but some reality hits of what life would be like without you might do her some good. Don't let her keep you dangling with comments that it might not be over for the two of you. She is saying this because she is getting her cake and eating it too. Your her back up plan. If this doesn't work, I can go back to him. The 180 plan will help you with this.
I know you are totally confused and hurt right now,but there are a lot of people on TAM that can give you wonderful advice. Also visit marraigebuilders.com. it will also give you some ideas to start with. Focus on yourself and what your needs are at the moment. I understand that she is an important part of your life,but she now is a disloyal spouse and you need to work on you to keep your sanity and do what is best for your marraige. There are marraiges that survive this but I think there has to be a key to getting there. We live in a world with communications of texting and emailing out thoughts and they can be taken the wrong way and doing more damage than good. Most of all, keep calm. Don't let her know what is bothering you and don't engage in fighting. Until she is rid of the other man,there is no discussion of the two of you getting back together. The 180 thing will explain it better.
You can do this and become a better person for it. Just believe in yourself and know what you want and keep that as your goal. Focus on yourself,get a hobbie, and see where it leads..
You cheated 2 years ago, she cheats now and then you respond with " maybe i should have a grudge affair"
Well, clearly that is not working out for you.
She says she still has feelings and now she is separating, which kills her accountability to you.
That probably isn't going to work out well either.
You know what you should do? You should read up on how women view relationships. Not just romantic ones, but all relationships, so that you understand the magnitude of what you are in for.
Whatever you think your EA was, multiply it by 100 for a woman.
My opinion is that women do not understand the level of attachment that men put into a relationship and men do not understand the same thing about women. And this ignorance is what leads to unreasonable expectations.
I am going to endure a $hitstorm for this, but here it is in a nutshell...
When a man shows the same behavior in a relationship as a women he is judged differently. For example: If a man had the same bond with his family as a woman, he would be called a "mama's boy." The fact is that most men do not view the actual relationship with the same intensity as women. Marriage is different because of the commitment, and men value honor and commitment very high because they are attributes of status.
My point is that when a woman cheats, it is far more difficult for her to sever the relationship than a man. If she is a passive woman, then she will avoid conflict. worse yet, if she is separated she will have no accountability.
Has your therapist told you that? Because they know it to be fact.
Two time- My EA was 14 years ago. She has lived with thinking it was a PA for all of this time. I realize that having some grudge sex won't fix anything. Hell, it would only make me feel better in the moment, and maybe not even then. Wouldn't do us any good at any rate. I value your opinion very much. You really seem to know what's going on.
I'm going to the pharmacy to check into a home AIDS test. So far, I have no symtoms of anything else. AIDS is the big oine I worry about for obvious reasons. It will give me peace of mind if nothing else.
As far as the OM is concerned: She tried contacting him for closure last month, but didn't get to ask or say all of the things she wanted to, so she's still hanging onto "What if". Makes me feel horrible, but there it is.
I have talked to his wife several times in the past. Once for about an hour without anger or yelling. Does anyone here feel like arranging a meeting between the four of us to discuss their feelings would solve anything? Do you suppose if he claimed no feelings for her in that situation, she'd believe it, or assume he couldn't be honest because his wife was there? I realize it could also turn out that they decide to have one another. Either way, it could bring all of this to an end.
I appreciate your responses very much. I feel for all of us struggling with **** we never thought we'd be struggling with. I am so glad I found this site.
I'm in a vaguely similar situation. My H has convinced himself I cheated, (I haven't), and we've been in this awful state of limbo for months. I want counselling to try to make our marriage work (I'm pregnant - 1st child) while he isn't sure it's worth the effort. For a few weeks now I've been emotionally preparing myself - telling myself it's over despite what happens, planning things out in my head for how the future will be as a single mother, etc etc, but this is a really ****ty position to be in. And my pulling away, preparing for the end of our relationship, isnt helping things at home either, but I don't know what else to do. This morning I gave H an ultimatum. Counseling now, like we start this week, or I'm leaving. I'd rather be on my own at this point, than feel like an unwelcome roomate in my own house.
At least your W if doing the counselling. Do you think you are sticking around longer over guilt from your own EA? Posted via Mobile Device
I don't think so, Cath. I have had 14 years of guilt from it, and still do feel bad. In my case, I turned my back on her because I felt she didn't love me. In my twisted mind at the time, that made sense to me. When I revealed the EA/PA (We did kiss one time. I'd have gone farther, but thank God she had better sense.), she was devastated and had no close friends to turn to. Neither of our families was a source of comfort either. She said it took years to be able to live with it.
When her PA came to light, I assured her that if I had had sex with the OW, I would use every detail of it to hurt her just like I was hurting. For the first time, that made sense to her. That being said, her actions and the fact that I didn't have sex doesn't excuse what I did or the pain it has caused her. Just trying to look at this fairly.
The guilt and need to make things right did guide my hand in the past as far as chasing her dream of a horse farm with her. We worked tirelessly together and built a business and home together, She stands to lose all of that now. Our daughter will take over the business, and we will stay in the home we built on good faith and good intentions. She turned away and threw away her dream. I worry that she will stay for the dream and not out of love for me. If she fell out of love with me while we were building all of this, how could I possibly do more? I guess I can't worry about that now.
Any thoughts on trying to meet with the other couple, or is it best to just leave them to their own troubles?
You cheated 2 years ago, she cheats now and then you respond with " maybe i should have a grudge affair"
Well, clearly that is not working out for you.
She says she still has feelings and now she is separating, which kills her accountability to you.
That probably isn't going to work out well either.
You know what you should do? You should read up on how women view relationships. Not just romantic ones, but all relationships, so that you understand the magnitude of what you are in for.
Whatever you think your EA was, multiply it by 100 for a woman.
My opinion is that women do not understand the level of attachment that men put into a relationship and men do not understand the same thing about women. And this ignorance is what leads to unreasonable expectations.
I am going to endure a $hitstorm for this, but here it is in a nutshell...
When a man shows the same behavior in a relationship as a women he is judged differently. For example: If a man had the same bond with his family as a woman, he would be called a "mama's boy." The fact is that most men do not view the actual relationship with the same intensity as women. Marriage is different because of the commitment, and men value honor and commitment very high because they are attributes of status.
My point is that when a woman cheats, it is far more difficult for her to sever the relationship than a man. If she is a passive woman, then she will avoid conflict. worse yet, if she is separated she will have no accountability.
Has your therapist told you that? Because they know it to be fact.
Twotime - So basically what you're saying is now that my wife and I are separated, she has absolutely no accountibility to me as far as what she does from here on out or what she did in the past? ****, I didn't think of that. The OP doesn't need a therapist to tell him that. It's obvious as soon as you read it. Makes so much sense. Separation means no conflict for her, further cheating possibly without repercussion... It's getting so much more real that my marriage is so over.
I don't see how anyone will **** on you for what you said. My wife isn't the greatest woman, there's better out there, but I loved her anyway and was proud of it. As for the status thing, I loved telling people I was married, it was honorable to me. So true, man.
Any thoughts on trying to meet with the other couple, or is it best to just leave them to their own troubles?
i think i would just leave them to their own troubles, but it's easy to give advice looking from the outside. i also think you are correct in thinking, that even if OM did tell your W he wasn't interested, she probably wouldn't believe it, if he said it in front of his W. i'm curious what his wife had to say about the whole situation - does she want to remain married to this man, who she knows has cheated on her with at least 2 women, at the same time? maybe they've got an open relationship?
i think i would just leave them to their own troubles, but it's easy to give advice looking from the outside. i also think you are correct in thinking, that even if OM did tell your W he wasn't interested, she probably wouldn't believe it, if he said it in front of his W. i'm curious what his wife had to say about the whole situation - does she want to remain married to this man, who she knows has cheated on her with at least 2 women, at the same time? maybe they've got an open relationship?
I think I agree. His W was pissed to say the least. She was the one who called me originally on D day. It sucked. A week later, could've been longer or shorter, time is a blur, she and I talked. We spoke on the phone for about an hour, and I think we really helped each other some. She wanted tyo stay with him then. She and I both agreed that we had our own parts that we played in the drama. Everyone had some fault in it.
She did tell me during the converstaion that she was more angry with him than she was with her. I feel the same way. I don't blame him for being attracted to my wife. She's attractive. I do blame him for being the kind of jerkoff who will sleep with a married person. My wife is one, too.
The hurt of knowing another man was inside my wife and she wanted him there, still does, I guess, is hard to deal with. The fact that she's still feeling for a guy who played her hurts as well.
I have IC tomorrow afternoon. I'm going to focus of the without her part and see how it goes from there.
On the upside, I got my "hair did "today. Cost me eleven dollars, and I tipped the lady a five. Hell yeah.
Told W last night that I wasn't going to compete with OM because I can't. How does one compete with an unknown quantity? She told me he was no longer part of the equation. Said he stopped being so physically in January, and that she did a lot of thinking yesterday and realized that he chose his family instead of her. She said she realizes that she could have never trusted him anyway. He was with her and another woman aside from his wife when he was with her. She said she would never be able to trust him after that. That sounds familiar to me.
I asked if she could give me a clue as to how she was feeling toward me. That got me a big sigh that sounded like "Oh no! Here we go again!" Great. She explained that he wasn't the problem. She and how she felt was, and she felt that way before she met him, he was just there.
We talked this morning about her moving out. She keeps mentioning hearing about places to rent, but doesn't really act on them. I told her that I fear if she leaves that it will be for good, but hurry up and make a move one way or the other.
I asked what she was missing with me before the affair. She said it would only be hurtful, and that I'd throw those things back in her face later. I left for work.
On the way, I called back and explained to her that knowing what was wrong was important. How could we work on us without those things being brought out? I'm not a mind reader, and can't waste time trying new things with myself at random. I won't. She said we should get the counsellor to help us when we get to that point. Right now, she needs to move out so that she can think. I hear it as so she can screw someone else.
I'm trying to stay on the path of moving away from her. Moving towards her with no real movement from her is maddening. Sitting still is hell. I told her that movement is the only way for me to stay sane. What I'm afraid of is that I'll go too far down that path before she makes up her mind. Maybe that would be a good thing, and put me in a stronger mental position if she ever does come around to wanting us.
Hanging on. Should I be? 
