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after d-day stuff..

155K views 544 replies 57 participants last post by  Shaggy 
#1 ·
a short version of my story..
been together since HS. dated on/off for 10 years..married in 2004. 1 3yr old boy.
noticed her texts messages slowly rise since mid last year, but thought nothing of it till it hit the 4000 mark..in jan.11. went back to review and noticed a high percentage to one of her coworkers... he was in unhappy marriage and was on verge of geting divorce (which he filed for in dec.10). found evidence of sext pics dating to late sept. (timestamped with pic message sent 1 min after)
. late jan i confront about the txts (not the pic i found that out later) she denies, just friends, no attraction etc.
decide to use software for blackberry to log texts (which shesbeen deleting) got 4 days worth of stuff...

finds out they have been together but for unknown amount of time..i sit on this info trying to gather more, hoping shell wake up and leave him...start doing reserch on affairs and how to handle them properly...

anyway. decided i want to save the marriage. so i confront her with my evidence on sunday...at first she denies, then says its only a EA. then i bring in other text that establish a PA (in that time she says its not cheating because no physical stuff, its not a big deal, and they broke it off weeks ago...all untrue, also said only lasted 2 1/2 months)

she does the phone call to let him know i know about affair...she cant transfer or anything i know hes not willing because hes a dept. head. but she made the decision to break it of (reluctantly) and so far stay for her family( not really me, but son..has no where to go and she knows i wont let her take him)

shes showing signs of transperancy, letting me see all texts, informing me of stuff, though shes undecided if she wants to stay in marriage. weve been going through therapy and have session next tues.

but heres my big problem and the issue i have right now.

Watching her get over the heartbreak of losing the other relationship/friendship. its killing me because shes so not engaged with me besides small talk. shes angry and says she hates me...but shes trying...she says shes lost and depressed. i dont know if they talk at work (the work together 3 days). i sent him a stern warning that i know about them and he should move on or ill go to his exwife who works for same company as well as his mom(hes a big mamas boy)

any advice how to get through this phase because i really didnt expect it to be so hard, even with a month of resaerch and prep...
 
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#440 ·
elph - if the old ignoring trick works so well - then why don't you go completely dark on her?

only talk about your son - but even then only via email or text. Take a while to respond and then only respond in the most direct simplest way.

You're wife is still with him - because she chooses to be. She chooses to be with him because she is getting away with it. You haven't filed for divorce, you continue to answer her phone calls etc.

You talk like this is something she'll grow out of. The trouble is, it has gone on so long that it has become her new normal life. You around for emotional support etc, and him around when she wants a man.

you need to break the cycle, you need to play the ignoring trick as you say.
 
#442 ·
as well everybody acts like my wife is some viscous harpy intent on destroying all that comes in her path.thats not the case. im not saying she perfect, obviously. but shes not one of those who is looking to just up and runa way with teh OM and start a new life with the OM. if she was, she woulda done it already. and as i mentioned, shes broken up with him 5 times, all of her own accord. and with nobody else pressuring her. The OM thoght knows exactly how to push her buttons to bring her back into the fold. (the old ignoiring trick, which has always worked really well). shes usually a good person, a good person who had a complete lack of boundaries, a good person who has made some horrendous decisions. a good person whose insanely naive. good person who went down that slippery slope, and by the time she realized what was going on, her emotions were all involved.

Elph, we are not looking to attack you. But just remember the quote above. You will be looking back on it and realize how stupid it is.
As I said before, your wife is not one of these psycho bipolar wives that are hell bent on destroying their ex husbands. In actuality, that would have been better for you. You would have no problem moving on. It does not make it any better for you that she is nice and cares for you(On a very very superficial level). Her emotional maturity(or lack of it) does not make it any better for you. It is like you saying "She is not killing be intentionally, so I wouldn't mind her killing me by accident."

You need to stop considering her your friend. She is poisonous to you, your self esteem and your own improvement. I mean with people like her, you won't even need enemies.
 
#444 ·
a couple of things.

ironically enough everybody tells me to move on, that she'll notice...

i get that im not doing it as fast or as immediate as everybody would like, but i am.

my mother n law called me just a few ago to let me know some stuff (wife tells her mom things, mom tells me things, and she doenst know it) anyway. i listed my house yesterday. because i had to be there for some showings i didnt have time to pick up my son.(3 yesterday 3+ today) so my wife had to drop him off. they (her and my MIL ) got there a little before me, so that they could make my son dinner (again because of time)

from what she told me my wife was shocked to see how the house was made ready for sale. that things were taken off walls, and stuff was started to be packed up. she knew i was gonna do it, and that i am looking for a place, but it hit her right in the face.she also knows that ive been doing it all by myself (unlike the OM, who has his mommy do everything for him).she then saw dinner that i had prepared for myself (stupid fricken southbeach diet) as well as a menu plan for the rest of the week on the fridge with the south beach book near by.

my MIL basically said that my wife became very pissy, but scared at the same time. all those things hit her at once. as well as a few other things.

Ive told her i dont need her help for anything. i have said as much that i am moving on in my own way, and alot of it starts with getting my own place. shes now starting to see it. and she knows what it means. with out the house, its one less thing she can loard over me since its still in both our names...





also about the OM being alpha.

it maybe true he played that to his advantage in the beginning (him being a supervisor and all) but she learned that it was just an image he puts up at work. shes confided in her friend (whos also mine and the girlfriend of who i went out drinking with sat.)just how much of a "whiney little *****" he is. and this isnt the first time im hearing this. His ex (who ive become good friends with) has let me know that in their relationship he had his moments where he played the good husband/father, but she was to independant for him. when they fought, shed just walk away and leave him to pout like the little mommas boy he is.
i getthat same feeling form the texts i was able to get last year. he would often say "sorry for being so emo" or "thanks for letting me get that out" or my favorite "i needed to get that off my chest, im sorry if i got to teary eyed"

seriously. he said these things.


listen, i know i became a whiny clingy little ***** in the beginning. and in reality thats not who i am, i usually have my **** together. but as weve learned, affairs can do that, and it takes a while to heal from the damage.

im listening. i get what everybodys saying. it just moves at it s own pace.

a much as i try to interact with other women, they can smell needy or clingy from a mile away. they know when somebody their dealing with isnt confident with themselves. and we know how much condifence is attractive.

the fact is it isnt easy for me to just flip it on and off like a switch, like it may be for others. and ive said it before, i take my son into heavy consideration. im not hiding behind him. i just remember what it was like when my parents got divorced. it was mean and nasty. they fought over every little thing, to the point where they hated each other. and my mom was immensly selfish during that whole process. the divorce F'd me up. and i never want to see my son go through that or see his parents gt to that level.
Ive been tremendously snarky and cutting with my wife most of the time when i see her. to the point where we get into fights. ive had to learn to hold my tongue. but id rather let my wife go than see my son go through what i did.

i know how everybody says shes poison, even if she herself doenst consciously know what shes doing, even if all shes doing is following her "feelings". I get it. but certain things just dont happen over night.

as our schedule stands, our son sees both his parents almost everyday. theres really no couple of days here, couple of days there. its also because we cant afford that kind of child care. so shell be with him till i get of work and pick him up or whatever. and since she works at 4 in the morn. she cant have him over except on her days off.i keep out discussions brief and about our son. and have brought up moving forward with the separation. i want to go through mediation, and avoid the courts. everything is in place money and schedule wise, the paper work just needs to be done...
 
#446 ·
"Ive been tremendously snarky and cutting with my wife most of the time when i see her. to the point where we get into fights. ive had to learn to hold my tongue. but id rather let my wife go than see my son go through what i did. "

What she sees when you do this is what I see. A man being b!tchy. Never ever let her see you whine which is what snarky is. What kind of man even uses the word snarky. Have youever seen astrong man talk to a woman this way? Reread the 180.

Number thirteen :
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive................. Can you say why this is true?

You've been reading "How to Run Your wife Off"
 
#448 ·
Even though its not true you need to convince her you are moving on without her.. You need to make her miss you, not ***** her out. You can even show a little sadness about how great things used to be. Of course she has to accept you care to much for her to be able to be friends when this is all over. Get it?

As far as dating goes, there are websites out there that can help you. Hell there is even websites out there that teach you how to pick up married women. Check that out and see if OM used those techniques. A car salesman in New Orleans stole Knutwiilies wife that way.

DO not go after married women!

The point is to always show her your good side and that you can get along with out her because in the end you are strong,dependable, loveing and attractive and not a POSOm.

In other words you're cool and he's not, he's a cheater. And if he cheated once he will cheat again.
 
#449 ·
its funny you mention stuff like this...

i dont know how i stumbled on it but ive seen alot of sites like that, PUA stuff, manosphere stuff...i think it started with athol, then to rossiey...and continued on.

actually i enjoy alot of stuff they write, esp. athol...that MMSL book is gold.

as for the OM. since he had been married for the past 8 or so years, i dont think that he used any special techniques. so far as i can tell, he just used stuff i used to use in high school.

pretend to be the friend, learn all you can, listen to the complaints, say exact opposite. find out whats missing and focus on that...hook em, then put it on cruise control and theyll do all the work ....


seriously. i did this stuff in high school.It just so happens that my wife is really easy prey.


shes nice, real nice..almost too nice for her own good. her manager has pointed this out, that shes just too casual around people,a nd some can misconstrue that as something else...shes not flirtatious. shes more awe shucks kinda girl who doesnt make do much makeup. shes got and incredible rack, but doenst wear much to accentuate it.
but that naiveness is often a flaw as well.

when we broke up some time ago,before we got married. she dated this guy. he was very similar to the OM. hed tell her what she wanted to hear. and at the beginning seem one way, romantic and involved with her. found out he was manipulating her. and in fact played her the whole time. he was cheating on her (of course the fact that he had 3 kids with 2 diff women shoulda been a red flag too). he then played the same ignoring games, and she kept going back for more...this guy was the typical bad boy...except he became both physical and emotionally abusive. and she kept going back to him despite the fact that she would be beaten. he was eventually arested and sent to jail and she was able to come out of it. shorly after we got back together and the rest is history. (and for the record, i saw a few girls during that time, but nothng too serious)

My wife has issues, alot stems from her kinda being abandoned by her dad, and her fear of that.
alot of how she acts now is eerily similar to how she acted back then.


anyway,
you are right though, i need to continue to shut up. something ive gotten better at, and keep it cool.

the thing is im excited to move out of this house and get my own place...i havent hid that fact. it kinda helps me move on in its own way. so it really wont take much convincing on my part...

which is what ive been trying to relay...


ive been a bit slow on the uptake...but things are a changin...
 
#453 ·
Doing what?

This is not the first time she's chosen the wrong person. Yeah. She's not the best judge of character and not to worldly wise. I have to say she generally has a good head on. Her shoulders but she was a little sheltered. I love my mother in law, but she did her no favors by not being a better teacher to her about people and the way the world is. Unlike my mom who was no bull shtter.

But if your emplying cheating. No. We were broken up at the time. We had kinda drifted apart. She moved out and later started a relationship with him. He was a smooth talker too, but a heavy drinker. ( oddly enough the OM is quite the drinker too. I found out that he lost a bunch of weight at the beginning of the affair/divorce papers being served. But has put on 30 lbs and has a bit of a gut. Also when he used to go over to her house he'd bring alcohol. This guy pulled the same game. Told her what she wanted to hear. Found out about about our relationship and just used that. Also though, unlike the OM, he had other women after him. Like I said be was a player, and my wife thought that it made her feel special that he picked her, and be was the bad boy so she thought she could change him. All typical stuff for a girl in her mid 20s Unfortunatly.

My wife's biggest weakness is her self esteem. Even more so since she put on weight after the baby. (oddly enough, right before we broke up she had also put on a decent amount of weight). She's never been comfortable with herself despite me telling her how beautiful I thought she was. Tho I did always worry about her weight it was for health reasons, since I have high blood pressure. I'm just more of a health based kinda guy. My wife has "issues" and they basically stem from her father leaving and her low self esteem.

She's also fairly predictable. I've seen this before in her. Her attitude with the OM is similar how she was when she was with the jerk. Only when that event had passed did she realize exactly what had happened. But I know that she views the affair as "different". Simply because the OM hasn't beaten her yet. But from the outside looking in. We see similar things. And it's not just me. She has friends that were around for that situation who have tried talking to her. We all know how the mindset gets for affairees. So logic just doesn't get through.

As everybody has stated. I have to hit her emotionally. And with the moving and house selling thing, the diet nd working out, it's all coming to fruition. My contact has lessened Nd I know everybody says just ignore her. It's not quite that easy. But I'm not picking up the phone to call her. Unless its about our son, and if I can limit it to texts I do. (she doesn't do email). I keep convos brief and to the point. If I pick up at all. So this stuff is starting to happen.

I know my wife pretty well. The only thing I didn't know is how poor her boundries were or how easily she could get into something like this. That was my fault for being dumb about thinking that marriage would protect a relationship. The rules don't change just because you put a ring on it. ( sorry beyonce).

I've definatly learned alot. And if reconcilliation were to ever happen, you can bet things would change.


That said some of the best stuff I've learned has come from both athol ( married man sex life) and this blogger called roissey. Look up roisseys maxims of his website chateaus heartiste.

Better yet when I get a chance ill post em later. It's good stuff.
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#454 ·
You don't HAVE to do anything. Except decide what you will accept in your life and move toward THAT.

Stop trying to play games with your wife. You can't control her and you can't make her want you. And if you somehow figure out how to make her choose you without it being her idea, you're just postponing another affair til down the road.

Any reconciliation has to come from HER (assuming you still want her at the time), after a long hard period of self-reflection and acknowledgment of her problems and faults. Any R before that is a false one.
 
#455 ·
Exactaly...

it took me awhile to get the control thing and to let go of that..

as well i was way to tailored to the specifics of my wife...

my therapist put it a good way.

anything you do to attract any woman, will also attract your wife. and that starts with confidence, and being your best. when you do that not only will your other women be attracted to you, but so will your wife, and ultimatley shell feel the competition as only women do. not only will she gravitate towards you, she WANT reconcilliation, but shell also put her best effort forward. because thats what women do when they want a man.


btw, my therapist is a woman.





also, does anybody ever see the word therapist and think "the rapist" like from the Saturday night live celebrity jeopardy skit?

i see it everytime and think it in sean connerys voice.
 
#458 ·
i outlined earlier what i would do and what would be required of her if she came back.

as for the boundaries part.

from this one time, i would hope shed learn. and i think thats something we would have to work on together. so that it doenst become an issue.

as well shes not the kind to just sleep around. if we complete the seperation, then shes gonna do what shes gonna do. but if we reconcile, ive always said itll be alot of work 25% dealing with the affair and getting answers, and 75% dealing with the marriage and making sure it doenst happen again. Thats a team effort.

if she does her part in the begininng, the so called heavy lifting. then it will make my part all the more easier.

Then the rest is just doing what i should have done in the first place...as well as doing what she should have done in the first place.

i think on a relationship level, Dr. harley put out a good book about the 10 basic needs thats a good starting point.
as my point of refernce, Athols book is fantastic.

from hers, well there is a book about dealing with affairs and what she needs to do that i have ill give her to read, but as to how to deal with marriage from a womans perspective...i have no clue (book wise)
 
#460 ·
well considering this is the first time shes cheated on me, id figure she'd eventually learn from the experience and not do it again...

do i think she can, yes.

i did.

when we first started dating waaayyy back when she was 17, i was 18. i screwed up and cheated on her a few times because i was drunk, and for once in my life i actually had more than one woman who thought i was attractive. i didnt know how to handle the situation.

i have learned from that, and have never been tempted to do it again.



if your talking about learning form picking the wrong guys. well if we get through this, itll hopefully be amoot point. but if not, im sure shell contimue to pick the wrong guys over and over again, because shes too naive and trusting. i think she differentiates the wo different situations because there is no physical abuse involved. but really the guys are eerily similar.
 
#462 ·
Seriously?, this is what you said.



and you've been taking her back all these times while hoping she'd learned her lesson. Anyway, deep down you probably like all this drama. So enjoy yourself.
Actually, you are incorrect on all levels.
I have not been taking her back at all. Neither has she come back to the marriage. She's broken up with him, each time and attempt to get away. She's lasted days or weeks without talking to him. Her family has been there for support. But at no time have we gotten back together. In fact it was suggested by her therapist, and mine as well on seperate occasion, that she should take a little time to herself when she does really break up with him, some time to clear her head and get over it. Heal. Because as much as nobody wants to admit, if she came back to the marriage too soon, even though we are still married, the effect would be similar to a rebound.

And again she has things she would need to do before she could come back.

Secondly, to even suggest that I like this bull**** drama is beyond insane. To think I like seeing my son cry when his mommy isn't there in the morning, or having to pick him up at the height of a fun day or if he's tired from a days events, is preposterous.

Because I end up informed about the things that are happeneing doenst mean I like the drama, it just means that I use the knowledge as not only a defense mechanism, but as a way of trying to fix the situation. I've always been insatiably curious. I won't apologize for that.

But to think I like this?



Well at least you got the tool part right in your name.
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#466 ·
Believe you me there is no way that she comes back with out restrictions. There are very specific things that will need to happen if it gets to that point. And I will accept nothing left. Things that will OT only help with some of the healing. But also show me where her head lies. As well as getting back at the OM in a way that would have longer lasting repercussions.

Oh she's not getting off easy, by no means.

But not in a way that will further damage things, but bring about some long lasting change.
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#465 ·
You and your wife have not lived together for many months now and the two of you co-parent your son on different days and times. Like it or not elph, you are living like a divorced man except that legally you are still married to her.

You have been more than patient with your cheating wife considering that she's continued contact with the OM - EA still going and possibly PA - for despite claims to the contrary, nobody is actually watching her 24/7. The result has been cake eating on her part because she knows that if she begs you to come back that there is more than enough chance that you will say yes to her.

Frankly your wife is in no condition to be in a committed relationship like marriage and the sooner you accept this truth, the sooner you will realize that the marriage is dead and needs to be buried - divorce.
 
#469 ·
06-06-2011, 04:40 PM

the rest of the day was a little talking. she was trying to goad me in to saying i would always be around. when she ends up hearbroken, or falls flat on her face. i just let her know i wouldnt be there to see if that happens.


Wow I didn't realise how long she has strung you along!!! Lets face it she knows you are going no where....if she thought you were serious she might actually drop the guy. You are actually doing the OM a favor by still being around as plan B(second choice). It allows her do continue getting her fix(OM) and his fix (sex with your wife) for all this time. If you are serious just cut all contact with her.....she will fold but until she believes you are serious she will not stop!!!
 
#471 ·
Shootmeplz-

actually things are different, including how we communicate. timely as this story may be.

i went to pick up my son tonight. well he pretty much lost his ****. he though he was going to spend the night at mommys, but because she has to wake up at 4, there would be nobody to watch him.
as he broke down, i just stood there, silent.
i watched her try to calm and console him. eventually he calmed down, i didnt say to much. but i did 2 things. i reminded her of something he said last year. he said if this affected my son, that he would back off.he didnt, but just proved what a great honest guy he is. the second thing i said was to text him when i leave (because i know she will) and tell him he was wrong. our son isnt adapting...at all. (i know he told her that, as he also told his ex wife that their 2 kids would adapt as well)

i said it quitely, but with a low growl, then took my son and left.

but i could see the tears in her eyes as i left, from both the her sons behavior and the fact that she knew i was right.

i have seen changes in her, but iam also smart enough to know when the right time to say or do things. months ago, even the harm and tears from my son couldnt pull her away, i knew if he couldnt, i wouldnt be able to.they say thats is acommon thing with ppl in affairs...as well no contact with her, obviously, would be impossible.



Saffron, the obvious answer is 1. easy math.

as in one person all by them selves. im preparing for that fact, and gettng my own place is a part of that. they put up the for sale sign up in my yard. that one hit kinda hard...but i also have the feeling that the point when ive moved on will be something i notice more in hind sight, because i will have just done it...no real fanfare, things like my day to day will just be different...
 
#474 ·
No my son is one huge main reason why I keep the possibility open. Because I was a child of divorce. An ugly nasty divorce. And growing up I was the only kid I knew who's parents were divorced. It sucked then and it sucks now. And I don't want my son to ever know what it's like, or the pain and problems associated with it.
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#475 ·
I had to laugh. I looked at your post above about the 75% this and the 25% that and the v2.0 and I thought, what is this, some kind of messed up math problem? Then scrolling down a second later, Saffron said the same thing.

Elph, you are deep in the fog. It's way past time for you to let this go and move on without her. I looked back a page or two and you posted that she's broken up with the OM five times already, of her own accord. Like you were so proud of her that she did it all on her own. Five times? Really? Snap out of it already. You seem like a good guy. We are on your side. Time to let her go and move on.

Just last night you told her two things. The OM lied and was wrong. She teared up. Big deal. Now, if she said, yes you're right, I'll never see him again, I could see where you would be happy with the result of the two things you told her in a "quiet growl." But after all this time she teared up? That's it?

It's your wife, it's your life, you're too wrapped up in the little details - I said this, she said that, blah, blah, blah. Look at the big picture. You're making no progress. At this rate, she'll come back to you after your son has graduated college.

Did you ever see the TV show Seinfeld? There's a character, George, who always makes the wrong decision. On one show, he decides to do the opposite of whatever he feels is right. Well, I think it's time for you to start doing "the opposite." Because doing what you feel is right has not worked and is not working.
 
#476 ·
couple of things...the numbers thing isnt an absolute, i just deal with stuff better when i can visualize it...numbers or stats are just easier for me...i sucked at most math in school, except for geometry, which i aced...


as for the do the opposite, or no progress,

thats where im going to have to say your wrong.

if this were september, under one of her "breakups" i would have handled my sons tantrum myself, instead of let her deal with it. i wouldve stayed longer to talk it over, or become enraged and start a huge fight...i dont think the point of the low growl came off here like i wanted...it was a manner of communicating to her while both being firm but not making a scene while my son was in the room...again, if this had been 6 months ago, id be trying to talk it through, my reactions totally different.

i keep things to a minimum...but i had to say something on behalf of my son and why hes acting the way he did...she may see it, but its still not translating in that immature mind of hers...but it was a point i needed to get across anyway...

im very conscious of the way i act around her...esp when im angry...but as i have had to learn...i just need to shut up....thats definatley a 180 from where i was months ago...and it aint easy, because im a talker (or lecturer as she would say)
 
#478 ·
I understand why you want your wife to have to deal with her son's tantrum...to TEACH her a lesson, to make her come around, to get the result you want.

But letting your child suffer while you stand at a fair distance watching is close to abusive.

I'm sorry, I usually agree with what you're doing. But not when you're using a child to achieve your goal.

My brother nearly killed himself because of what our parents put him through and I've been dealing with it in therapy my whole life. Don't do that to your son.
 
#482 ·
For what it's worth, this was a situation that my wife had created. She mentioned an upcoming change in schedule but he mistook it as last night. She had to explain the difference I. What was happening. It was something that we agreed to(a style of parenting) so that we wouldn't step on each others toes or back track from what one of us may have had in mind. It basically allows for the action to happen and if we want to change the rules or something, we talk about it later and decide. That way there is no power struggle or contradiction and it come in like a united front. I've seen plenty of parents say one thing, then have the spouse say other wise right in the moment creating a conflict. Unless of course there's some sort of immediate threat.
That's why I let her handle it. But when I deal with my son I get easier and more immediate results. Her. Not so much.
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#481 ·
Dr David Walsh said:
Children need consistency. Parents who fail to provide this do not do their children any favors. Children will often pit one parent against the other in a process called triangulation.

What is even more harmful is when separated or divorced parents sabotage or criticize one another. This puts children in the position of having to choose sides.

That said, it isn't easy negotiating parenting strategies after a divorce. I would suggest that you calmly share this response with your divorced spouse and invite him to discuss how the two of you can agree on some common ground rules for your children that you both agree to enforce. Remind him that this is for the children’s benefit, not as a favor to you. You might also want to see if he is willing to meet with a neutral third party to see if he or she can help you come to a working agreement
 
#483 ·
This is something we whole heartedly agree with. That's why we keep his routine as normal as possible. We try to keep improper discussions away from him. And constantly give him as much live and support and reassurance as possible.

But he's a smart kid. He tried to get us around each other as much as possible. And always tried to get mommy to spend the night. But we do as delicately as we can to explain why she can't. For 4 years old he understands as much as he can. But at least we're not turning into my parents.

And please believe when I say that everybody's advice and care doenst go unheard.
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