Here's the other thing. This meeting has not been scheduled. She texted him 2 days ago and said this was her last text until he responded with when he wanted to meet. He previously said he wasn't ready for this meeting. At this point, my wife doesn't know if it will ever happen. So that whole thing might just go away. But at the same time, part of me just wants it to be over with so we can move forward.
Thanks for the comments all. To be honest, I was the bad guy in our marriage for a long time. I never cheated, never abused, etc, etc, but I also didn't heed my wife's warnings. She came to me first, many many times about what she needed. She wanted me to be the one to improve. And I only would fix it for awhile before I let life get in the way yet again.
That is the same script I was handed. Are you sure my wife didn't give your wife that script? lol
Originally Posted by Gabriel
Another question, given I know the OM pretty well, there has been talk that he has considered emailing me an apology. He feels beyond awful he let things get this far. I have also considered emailing him, not to completely rip or threaten him, but instead to tell him there is plenty of blame to go around, and also to be firm about my forbidding him from ever again being in our lives.
Well, let me dig out my notes. On April 26, 2011, my wife's OM called me to apologize. He said it was over and they had decided to "go their separate ways." Somewhere around that time (should have made better notes), she gave me the battery for her affair phone. She also told our daughter and her sister that it was over. I had confirmation in her not having the affair phone, OM, my daughter and her sister all independently telling me it was over. On Friday, May 6, I put a VAR near the computer when I took the kids to the carnival. Guess what? It was still alive and very active. They had simply worked out a method of communication they didn't think I could catch on to. My point is, even if OM says it is over and apologizes, it could just be a deceptive move as in my case.
Originally Posted by Eli-Zor
The only person he talks to is his current girlfriend, he can then apologize to her, your a nice guy, we have seen this routine many times.
I am also a nice guy, unfortunately. At the very least, order the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. I am still reading it, but I am amazed at how close it fits me so far.
Let's just say from the email I intercepted, I know they haven't been getting it on. Trust me on this. I'd rather not post the sentence from that email. But it is very clear from it that it was something they wanted to do, but hadn't yet. The OM is very religious and was likely waiting for the divorce first before consummating the EA with sex.
EA = very clear
PA = very clearly not
Hence the title of my thread. Not that that makes it any better.
And to Tennessee - this isn't a script she's been feeding me since the affair. She's been feeding me the script for years. I had lots of chances. Still pissed I am in this position now.
The OM is very religious and was likely waiting for the divorce first before consummating the EA with sex.
Very religious, huh?
Exodus 20:14 - Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Matthew 5:27, 28 - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, "Thou shalt not commit adultery": But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
from Jesus Christ. I'd imagine that sexting, sexual emails, phone sex, etc. would fit this category. They just weren't in common usage 2,000 years ago.
Exodus 20:17 - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, . . .
These are just a few examples of why I wouldn't base my faith that nothing has happened on him being "very religious". Chasing another man's wife is not looked upon too well in the Bible.
Anthony, I appreciate your answers. I like getting all the perspectives.
Regarding the Bible verses - I don't know what they've texted or said. The stuff I saw was not graphic at all. It was more of a longing.
The email from the OM detailed his jealousy about her talking with a guy she knew (nothing untoward in that situation btw). But his email went on and on, beyond what is appropriate. Then her response was the damaging one - but not graphic. Like I said, more of a "wish things were different, so we could make be together" type of thing. She confided our problems to him as a friend, and he said all the things she needed him to say, and over the years had backed them up with his actions as her friend.
She is very remorseful and feels like a bad person for her thoughts. She asked me "what should I have done?" given she came to me first a bunch of times over a long stretch and tried to work it out with me. She answered her own question and said that the courageous thing would have been to ask for a divorce first, then be alone, then see if her friend made sense as a partner later. She called herself a coward for instead letting herself emotionally cross the line first while still married.
I will ask her for more detail about what they've said to each other beyond that email. I really should have done that right away. The email was enough to do the damage so I didn't ask that question.
Her agreeing to end this friendship is a BIG deal. This is her price for her role in the situation. The EA took place only very recently (maybe 3-4 months), after 20 years. This was not a quick thing or a fling with a random person.
Yes, I felt much the same way when my wife came to me in November stating that she was finally giving up her friendship with her long-time EA partner (not that she would admit it was an EA, of course) after a dream she had the night before. She said the dream literally made her wake up and see that she needed to get him out of her life if our marriage was going to survive.
A mere handful of days before our first (and long time coming) MC session in March, I found emails between them that clearly showed the EA was still going on, just through a communication channel they didn't think I'd have access to.
I am one that believes marriage can only survive if there is mutual trust. If I can't trust her to have this meeting, say her goodbye, and be done with it, then I can't trust her about anything. And if I can't do that, why not just end it now?
Some people on here talk about having the "cheating" spouse open all email, text, etc, communications to prove their trustworthiness. But that's not trust. Trust is believing them when they say something. Hell if I want to be snooping in the email and texts all the time. That would be torture and we'll never get past it. This my problem right now. Can I give her the benefit of the doubt?
You're absolutely right that trust is necessary to save and rebuild the marriage. But, given what's happened, first the two of you must rebuild that trust itself. And the surest way to rebuild trust is for her to demonstrate that she's trustworthy. She does this by her actions truly matching her words...not by merely APPEARING to match her words. That's where transparency comes in...she has nothing to hide, so she hides nothing. She should be willing to put her proverbial money where her mouth is. Once trust is reestablished, she can be afforded that luxury. Posted via Mobile Device
I'm telling you, my friend.... Don't be a nice guy. Don't trust her. She's wanted him, and will continue to do so. Do not enable her.
You have two choices....
1) Since you don't sound as if you want to confront him, maybe a liltte reverse phsycology could work.
Something like this:
Listen honey... I was thinking. Since you and my friend "lover boy" have been getting it on, why don't you take your stuff and move out tonight? I'll have your bags packed in about an hour.
I feel I should have a little more self respect, and you should have had more respect for our marriage.
I'd suggest you GO!!
Turn her off like a light bulb. back off 100%
Do a 180.
Don't reassure her that you trust her anymore. Let her know that you don't approve of her nonsense, and you won't tolerate it anymore.
I'd make like I'm willing to show her the door.
Call her bluff.If she balks, then you may see where her heart is at. If she agrees to leave, then she'll probably come running back in few days, crying her eyes out.
if she never comes back, well then your job was well done.
This is pretty much the only thing that ever works. Seriously. And when people don't take a stand immediately after discovering the affair, and say things like they won't do any such thing and etc, and dtime goes on and on and on and the spouse gets to eat so much cake and still isn't sure what to do, it's less likely they choose the marriage in the long run and guess what happens: they're here 200 posts later talking about the same thing. "My wife is still in contact with OM..or my H is still in conact with OW and won't stop despite me saying it's not ok." TN is a perfect an example of this. (Not meaning to call you out, TN, but it's the perfect case study).
So Gabriel, you cacn just sit back and pray she ends the affair or you can actually get some self-respect and tell her you're not going to take it and actually back it up with actions.
If she chooses the marriage, great. If she won't end it with him, she wasn't worth it in the first place.
TN is a perfect an example of this. (Not meaning to call you out, TN, but it's the perfect case study).
No problem Jellybeans. I was going to tell him the same thing as I was reading through these.
Dude, I have written War and Peace on here. You can look through as much as you like. I'm telling you because you sound like I did. I wish I had been more aggressive at first. I'd either be divorced or recovered by now. After all that wishy washy I should trust her crap and wanting with all my heart to believe every word she says, I am still finding more of the iceberg. My marriage is most likely ending in divorce before too long.
Please listen to these folks. I am a great example of how not to handle it. There are 2 threads. Look at the first one and you'll see I had much the same reaction early on that you seem to. I thought basically, "Yeah, well that may be the norm, but they don't know my wife." The more I read other threads on here, I see the script is scarily common. You are most likely just seeing the tip of the iceberg.
Hire a PI and have her watched during mtg.
If you don't you will wonder what want on.
Why start trusting her know?
I have to give it to you... I'd wanted no contact except for NC text and one call, but no way in hell was there going to be mtg.
Isn't that like inviting the wolf into the hen house. Come on havn't you ever heard of the old saying "one more time for good old sakes" or is it old days?
My wifes first consequence is she didn't get to say good by to her boyfriend. Granted she told him "he knows he's here now I gotta go".
He called back to make sure I wasn't hurting her, she said " I just got spanked thats all..I gotta go"
Your playing with fire..I understand your between a rock and a hard place but man letting her see OM to say good by is so wrong.
I can hear it it now "hey baby how can we stay in contact and not get caught this time"
I would think getting a letter is all they diserve at best, but thats just me.
I want to thank everyone for their responses. I just had a long talk with her. I asked her to tell me about any/all intimate conversations they've had. She told me that the talking was never sexual in nature. During their 20 year friendship, they've always kind of just missed each other - one was in one relationship, then the other was in another. She tells me their talks were
1) her confiding to him our marital issues
2) him reassuring her from his standpoint (filling the need)
3) them wishing at some point they had the chance to move beyond friendship along the way somewhere
4) them understanding how impossible that is given the current situation they were in.
She 100% promises me that this is the extent of the EA. The email I saw was her expressing #3 and #4, but in the present tense, given where our marriage is right now. It was dated 4/23. I saw the email 5/4.
I asked her specifically what else was said, and she honestly couldn't come up with anything that didn't fit 1-4 above. Never talk of physical stuff. Just deeper, "if only the timing of our lives had been different" type of stuff.
It still sucks ass, but I do feel a bit better after that conversation. I also know that if she truly does what she says and cuts off the contact for the sake of our marriage, she's not going to run out and do this again. There's no other guy in her life like this OM waiting in the weeds. The key is will she?
Another question for you all:::::
I am turning 40 next weekend. She set up a party for me (before this went down) that has a set number of people (it's an activity), but most of my friends are out of town, etc, and can't come. Of the 12 people coming so far, 9 are either her friends that are sort of my friends, or they are mutual friends that my wife has confided our situation to. Only 3 are really tied to me only. So it is possible most of the people there will know about what happened, or are there more for my wife than me. We've put $450 nonrefundable money down on this, which is 1/2 the bill. I told my wife in a bad moment to just cancel the party. She freaked out and thought I did it to punish her (she went on about how crappy she feels for ruining my party, my whole birthday really). But really, it's not like a lot of my friends are showing up. Part of me wants the party to try to help me feel better, and part of me wants to forget it. Thoughts?
Gabriel, as long as the OM is not coming, I'd continue the party. It is a chance for you guys to do something that should be fun, even if most of the friends are "hers".
I understand your not wanting to participate, but suggest you reconsider and keep a good frame of mind as to not make it a bad time. I can't imagine that losing the money spent and sitting at home will help you or anyone else feel any better.
Maybe a fun night out together with some friends will help in a small way and provide your wife a chance to do something special for you. Just my 0.02.
Hmmm being in the same boat as you, but with a lot more time under my belt, I would say you are in denial of her affair. You are trying to convince yourself it just didn't happen. She was just talking to him, just like she would a girl friend.
I agree with all the others. Wake up. in #3 and #4 they clearly to me talk about what they missed out on by not having sex 20 yrs ago and believe me. IF GIVEN THE CHANCE THEY WILL. Feeling guilty or not they will want to satisfy the question of "Did I miss out on something". Even if he is religious he will break Gods law because God made man that way. That is why we are forgiven.
As for the Bday party. Forget it. No party. Period. You are already questioning who will take who's side. Will they pitty her or me. Will I feel comfortable. If you feel you must get your $450 out of it. Invite family, both parents, kids, brothers, sisters, Aunts, Uncles. Keep it family and you will feel comfortable.
I found my H's affair on the 19th and my Bday was the 21st. I didn't feel anyway near wanting to celebrate. It was weeks later my Son n DIL had dinner for me. It was worth the wait.