Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble - Page 5
 Talk About Marriage
  The Marriage Advice and Relationship Help Forums
  right
Forums - For Therapists - Link to Us - Advertise  

    A Public Forum Provided by The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory
Register FAQ Community Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Navigation »Talk About Marriage »Focused Topics »Coping with Infidelity » Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-12-2011, 08:51 AM   #61 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Amplexor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Temporary Resident of Earth Lord Only Knows Where Next
Posts: 5,509
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
And that's fair enough. By her having the conversation in front of you, you hear confirmation that both of them are on the same page with you and understand the consequences of any future contact. Without knowing the content of the conversation, as I said before, it could very well have been a discussion of how to move their EA underground where they think you won't be able to find it.
Not calling you out here Grayson, just the concept. I have never understood the purpose of demanding the NC be done in front of the betrayed spouse. If one or both of them is set on continuing it they will no matter what is said. For all you know she may pick up a trak phone at Walmart 30 minutes later. My opinion of this is that it more resembles a parent/child relationship than a partnership in marriage. I chose to have a deadly serious conversation with my wife that either the EA or our marriage was going to end and left on a business trip. When I got back she chose to end the EA, while curious at the time, I had no idea how she did it. Now I really don't care. I didn't see any point in rubbing her nose in the urine soaked carpet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
Let's make one thing clear: his concerns are NOT about "the survival of your family unit." They're not even close. In fact, it would be better for him if your family unit crumbles, removing you as an obstacle between him, your wife and their "eternal happiness." He may talk a good game about no wanting to break up your family. He's working on your sympathies, painting himself as less of a threat than he is. My wife claimed that her EA partner had changed and respected our marriage. I called BS on that...if he truly respected our marriage, he wouldn't have been part of an EA with my wife, and he would have disappeared forever when it was first requested of him.
I am calling you out here because you are dead on, correct. This man has purposefully involved himself in your wife's emotions. I had a similar email exchange with TOM many months before I really understood what an EA was. He conned me just as he had been manipulating my wife. Do not believe a thing he says. He is a liar by definition.
__________________
Amp

Confidence Love Patience Faith Are the tools to help heal a marriage.

"Some of the greatest lessons life has taught me came from my darkest days in it" -Amp
Amplexor is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-12-2011, 09:04 AM   #62 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Amplexor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Temporary Resident of Earth Lord Only Knows Where Next
Posts: 5,509
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
Question, given everything you've heard here, out of 10 couples in this situation, how many do you think survive? Consider the 15 year marriage, 3 kids, etc, etc. I'm thinking 2 or 3 maybe.
My marriage not only survived but thrived afterwords. The old adage, what doesn't kill you will make you stronger applies. The unfortunate EA was a shot over the bow that finally woke me up and got my head back in the marriage. The recovery process was what she needed to see to get hers back in also.

I have no idea how many marriages come back from something like this but I don't see your 20 -30% as being wrong. I consider myself lucky to have recovered. A couple of the other mods were also in the lucky column having their marriages recover from affairs.

I think you have a good start but take heed in what others are telling you. You may not feel your wife will backslide but it is very possible that it will happen. She can't shut her emotions off to this man like a switch. It'll take months. I applaud your desire to trust in your wife, but snooping or not, transparency or not, promises or not, trust must be earned and it will not happen overnight. How you get there is up to you.
__________________
Amp

Confidence Love Patience Faith Are the tools to help heal a marriage.

"Some of the greatest lessons life has taught me came from my darkest days in it" -Amp
Amplexor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 09:10 AM   #63 (permalink)
Member
 
Undertheradar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 348
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Gabriel,

My wife had the epiphany yesterday. She told me all the wonderful things I wanted to hear.
By last night, she was reminding me why she wanted to leave.... again.

Emotions are a rollercoaster ride. Buckle up, and go for the ride.

Here's something to help you go forward:

A 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. .
No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

I will admit that I have been doing 100% of OF THE ABOVE LIST, that I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DOING!!!
It has played a major role in my failure as a husband
Undertheradar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 09:37 AM   #64 (permalink)
Member
 
Gabriel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,082
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

This is awesome stuff. Thanks so much. Amp, you are my hero.

One question - the whole reason we got to this place was because I wasn't meeting my wife's needs emotionally or being attentive. The 180 list is a pull back of being attentive. Our marriage won't make it if I pull back for very long. Some of the points are dead on, like moving on with my other areas, not being pathetic, but strong instead, etc. Totally agree with those. Also agree with not begging and pleading.

But at some point I have to demonstrate my attentiveness or it will end. What is the time frame for that? Do I back off for a few days, do I check in with her to see how she's doing to show I care about her feelings? Me caring about her feelings is really important to her.

I need to strike this balance appropriately. Any advice?
Gabriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 09:44 AM   #65 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,619
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Search my posts for Plan A, combine this with the 180. Be warned the 180 is to harden you as it assumes there is a likelihood your wife is leaving or you have caught her resuming the affair. Pick most of the 180 and run Plan A in parallel . Then if here is a slip-up or she does not change her behaviour or actively work on the marriage go full 180 and change gear.
Posted via Mobile Device
Eli-Zor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 10:12 AM   #66 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amplexor View Post
Not calling you out here Grayson, just the concept. I have never understood the purpose of demanding the NC be done in front of the betrayed spouse. If one or both of them is set on continuing it they will no matter what is said. For all you know she may pick up a trak phone at Walmart 30 minutes later. My opinion of this is that it more resembles a parent/child relationship than a partnership in marriage. I chose to have a deadly serious conversation with my wife that either the EA or our marriage was going to end and left on a business trip. When I got back she chose to end the EA, while curious at the time, I had no idea how she did it. Now I really don't care. I didn't see any point in rubbing her nose in the urine soaked carpet.
No worries; it's all good. I'm fully aware that being in the room for the NC conversation is no guarantee that the NC will be followed. It happened to me, even. I heard the voice mail my wife left that said, and I quote, "We're done. Keeping in touch with you isn't worth the drama it brings to my marriage." but, a little over a year later, the texts and phone calls resumed. But, I still think hearing the conversation - at least one side, if not both on speaker or extension - can be valuable in that if/when contact resumes, it allows you to say - if only to yourself - "I heard, with my own ears, you told the OM/OW that contact is done forever." You know that the conversation that established the NC truly did so, rather than being either a planning session to go underground or a dismissal that the LS is just being an overbearing jerk...everything will be back to normal in a few weeks once this blows over.

So, yeah...if they want to resume/continue contact, they will. I just like the notion of the NC notification being immediate and with the LS present (if it's written, reviewing the email/letter and being the one to send), so that if/when NC is broken, there's no wiggle room for the DS, as both spouses know exactly what was said, and the consequences are whatever they are.
Posted via Mobile Device
Grayson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 10:22 AM   #67 (permalink)
Member
 
Gabriel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,082
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

I have probably acted too quickly on a number of things, but I've done some things right.

Eli-Zor, I found your post on Plan A. I have done everything on the stick EXCEPT refusing to accept blame. That one is big. I've been admitting my part of the blame in this all over the place, and I can't take it back now. But I have 100% done all the others.

Regarding the carrot, it seems that comes next right? I 100% will stay strong, not be pathetic, and move forward confidently in other areas. The carrot of Plan A seems to be more of the reasurring, I'm here when you're ready, I'm not going anywhere, I'm solid and I'm forgiving you step (combined with the not pleading, begging, etc, of the 180), correct? I think that makes sense, and is appropriate. I'm glad I asked to crack these codes you all have been speaking in - it helps.
Gabriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 10:23 AM   #68 (permalink)
Member
 
lordmayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA All The Way
Posts: 4,720
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
So, yeah...if they want to resume/continue contact, they will. I just like the notion of the NC notification being immediate and with the LS present (if it's written, reviewing the email/letter and being the one to send), so that if/when NC is broken, there's no wiggle room for the DS, as both spouses know exactly what was said, and the consequences are whatever they are.
Posted via Mobile Device
I definitely agree. I was present when my wife sent the NC email so that there can be no confusion or doubt in my mind about what was said. That was closure for the affair. If NC is broken, then that is the deal breaker and I can proceed with the consequences with a clear conscience.
lordmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 10:42 AM   #69 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
I think I alluded to this earlier, but she was molested by her father when she was 14. This has made her be as needy as she is. It's a very complicated situation. She feels it has ruined her life, made her too needy for reassurance. I knew this when I married her - and I do take some responsibilty because I should have given her that extra care all this time. I didn't think it would bite us in this fashion.
It's horrible that this happened to her, and may help understand some of the underlying mindset that led her to see nothing wrong with investing emotionally with another man, but make no mistake: it doesnt EXCUSE her behavior. She still made a choice to emotionally give herself to someone else.

And, I'm not just spewing rhetoric here. My wife's parents essentially abandoned her, sending her to live with her grandmother when she was 4 and they divorced. So, she's got abandonment issues. Both of her parents are alcoholics, so she's prone to addiction; while she goes to great lengths to avoid alcoholism, her addictive personality has seemed to manifest on an addiction to sexual/romantic attention. Her parents divorced because of her mother's serial cheating, so she has that as a behavior example growing up. And, as a freshman in HS, she was repeatedly date-raped by her boyfriend, giving her quite a few issues regarding sex and the power it wields. None of that, however, changes the fact that SHE chose to carry on an extended EA with someone who saw himself as the chief rival for her affections when we first started dating. SHE is the one who chose to have sex with someone she'd known for 3 weeks, after telling a close friend she wasn't going to because she didn't want to cheat on me. Like you, I own my contributions to any distance that had grown between us, but SHE is the one who decided to go outside our marriage, emotionally and physically.

Quote:
She demanded to see the OM's response to my goodbye email to him, and also my rebuttal. She wanted to see the exchange. I asked why. She said, "I want to see the exchange. I'm already never going to talk to him again, now you're not even going to let me see this?" So I opened my computer and let her read it. I had nothing to hide. I told her I wanted to be done talking about the OM and move on. My fear is that by them not meeting, she will never feel any closure, and will never move on. But now that I demanded that, I can't go back.
She wanted her "fix" of the OM...she wanted to see how he fought for her...how he fought for their relationship. When my wife sent what will be - one way or another - her final NC email to her EA partner, he emailed her back, ignoring it. She told me. I emailed home (and blind copied her) firmly telling him that he needed to go away and stop disrespecting our marriage. He replied (copying her...we figure he decided that I sent the NC through her email and she was unaware of what was transpiring), and tried to bait me into a heated response to him. I *almost* took the bait, but thought better of it. I just responded to his comment that if I saw him as a threat, he didn't know what to say, and simply told him: "You only need to know how to say one thing: goodbye. Forever." We then blocked him from all email and chat access.

On short, pardon my bluntness, but...screw "closure." All the "closure" that she will get is, "We can't communicate anymore. Goodbye." No "I'll miss you. You've always been there for me." Allowing such "closure" sends the message that you agree to the relationship's importance.
Posted via Mobile Device
Grayson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 10:58 AM   #70 (permalink)
Member
 
Gabriel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,082
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Well, what's done is done. I'm not backing up and saying for her to go ahead with a meeting anyway. And I flat out asked her if that's what she was asking me to do. She said no.

It's funny, the stages.

Upon discovery, I was the one bawling and coming to her and feeling awful and needing to know everything. And yes, she blamed me for driving her there, but she did acknowledge that what she did was wrong. She acknowledged that my failures didn't make it right what she did, and the better move would have been to wait longer for my changes or divorce me. She beat herself up pretty good.

Now with the OM cut off, she's the angry/depressed one that wants to know what I said to him, his response, etc. She's the one hurt. She's reluctant to use the word affair (like affair only meant if they had sex). She said given the "punishment" she might as well have gone all the way - like she got no credit for her restraint in that regard. And I'm the one sitting back, the more emotionally stable one.

Just quite the process, isn't it?

I thought about what I consider to be 3 basic types of affairs, and their relative severity.

1) EA only, like mine
2) EA that turns PA
3) PA only

#2 to me, would be the worst. You gave the OM/OW your heart, and it got so intense you decided to give up your body too. If a #2 happened, I dont' think I could ever recover. And wouldn't expect someone to recover if I had done it.

#3 to me, would be the easiest to withstand. Like a drunken one night stand because you were horny - or you like a girl's ass and banged her in the bathroom. Or even a prostitute or something. This is a primal thing we all battle and I think easiest to forgive.

#1 is in the middle somewhere
Gabriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:00 AM   #71 (permalink)
Member
 
Jellybeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19,145
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

They are all bad. But I think EA and PA = the worst, like someone else said.
Jellybeans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:06 AM   #72 (permalink)
Member
 
Undertheradar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 348
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
Well, what's done is done. I'm not backing up and saying for her to go ahead with a meeting anyway. And I flat out asked her if that's what she was asking me to do. She said no.

It's funny, the stages.

Upon discovery, I was the one bawling and coming to her and feeling awful and needing to know everything. And yes, she blamed me for driving her there, but she did acknowledge that what she did was wrong. She acknowledged that my failures didn't make it right what she did, and the better move would have been to wait longer for my changes or divorce me. She beat herself up pretty good.

Now with the OM cut off, she's the angry/depressed one that wants to know what I said to him, his response, etc. She's the one hurt. She's reluctant to use the word affair (like affair only meant if they had sex). She said given the "punishment" she might as well have gone all the way - like she got no credit for her restraint in that regard. And I'm the one sitting back, the more emotionally stable one.

Just quite the process, isn't it?

I thought about what I consider to be 3 basic types of affairs, and their relative severity.

1) EA only, like mine
2) EA that turns PA
3) PA only

#2 to me, would be the worst. You gave the OM/OW your heart, and it got so intense you decided to give up your body too. If a #2 happened, I dont' think I could ever recover. And wouldn't expect someone to recover if I had done it.

#3 to me, would be the easiest to withstand. Like a drunken one night stand because you were horny - or you like a girl's ass and banged her in the bathroom. Or even a prostitute or something. This is a primal thing we all battle and I think easiest to forgive.

#1 is in the middle somewhere
The above statement concerns me, and sounds as if she's preparing herself for a counter attack.
She's looking for an excuse, and she might be trying to give herself one.
Just my opinion.
Undertheradar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:28 AM   #73 (permalink)
Member
 
The 13th_Floor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 298
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Yep, the #2 blows. I should know. My D-day was February 18th, and I'm not even remotely close to the stage you're at...
Posted via Mobile Device
The 13th_Floor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:30 AM   #74 (permalink)
Member
 
ArmyofJuan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 712
Default Re: Wife had EA only, but I'm having trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
My fear is that by them not meeting, she will never feel any closure, and will never move on. But now that I demanded that, I can't go back.
She would had NOT gotten closure from meeting him, usually just to opposite happens.

I stupidly let my wife get "closure" by letting her meet up with the OM at a restaurant to talk. By "closure" I mean "her leaving me 2 weeks later and promising to marry the OM and filing for a divorce".

Dollars to donuts this is far from over.
ArmyofJuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:35 AM   #75 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,763
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
Now with the OM cut off, she's the angry/depressed one that wants to know what I said to him, his response, etc. She's the one hurt. She's reluctant to use the word affair (like affair only meant if they had sex). She said given the "punishment" she might as well have gone all the way - like she got no credit for her restraint in that regard. And I'm the one sitting back, the more emotionally stable one.
That one always makes me shake my head in wonder...that the DS views being held to the vows they made to their spouse, that having to end an inappropriate relationship, that having to face the consequences (such as loss of trust) that come from their betrayal is all a "punishment." in my anger and disbelief, I didn't feel like speaking to my wife for a few days. He exact question to me was to ask how long I was going to treat her "like a leper." As if I had a switch that could turn off the anger and resentment a being disrespected in such a way and speak to her as if nothing happened.

And, no...she DOESN'T get any "credit" for "only" having an EA and not letting it get physical. Take what comfort you can in knowing she's sti following the proverbial script. Many spouses who engage "only" in an EA refuse to acknowledge it as an affair for the very same reason your wife doesn't. It took quite a lot of time, turmoil and reflection for my wife to accept that term for her EA.

You've had several books recommended to you. Allow me, if I may, to add to your reading list: "NOT 'Just Friends.'" unfortunately, I can't recall the author, but I think it might fit your situation well.
Posted via Mobile Device
Grayson is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wife having trouble with orgasm... keeper63 Sex in Marriage 18 09-14-2012 12:08 PM
Wife and Her Ex-Fiance Keep Causing Trouble Shadowboxer Coping with Infidelity 83 05-26-2012 08:57 AM
Old man young wife in trouble .... ts185 Considering Divorce or Separation 2 05-18-2012 10:48 PM
Trouble talking to my wife.. conker512 General Relationship Discussion 3 09-30-2009 06:34 PM

Member Area

Find a Therapist:


Sponsor Ads


Sponsor Ads




Get The Family & Marriage Counseling Directory Help Guide via Email:
Name:
Email:




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 PM.



Copyright 2007 - 2013 © Talk About Marriage