They will be here for the party. I'm not trying to be a conflict avoider... I just know that our argument patterns mean that she will shut me down (by leaving room, by flying off in a rage) if we are alone. At least if her parents are there I will have someone else to hear me out. They are an integral part of our lives and are up-standing people. I think they want to see their grandchildren brought up in a house that is not broken. And I think if they heard what I have to say they would support me (us). Posted via Mobile Device
But the opposite happens! Your in-laws will support their daughter. In effect you would be asking them to side with you, to see and take your point of view. They will take their daughter’s side. One of the reasons is that there’s no way will they ever risk alienating their daughter such that they never see their grandchildren again. And of course after their daughter tells them just how miserable and unhappy you made her over the years (her reasons for her affair), they will want their daughter to finally be happy. They will though tell you just what a Very Nice Guy they think you are!
"Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS."
It is beta behavior. Not only that, remember the old saying is almost always true, blood is thicker than water. They may be upset at what your WW is doing, it may even be disgusting to them, but when push comes to shove, they will support her. YOU are just the son/brother in law, and you are lower on the totem pole compared to their daughter and grandchildren.
There is no way in hell I would go on a business trip and let her go to her friend's without me. That will be the END of your marriage, my friend. Is that business trip worth it?
There is no way in hell I would go on a business trip and let her go to her friend's without me. That will be the END of your marriage, my friend. Is that business trip worth it?
There is no way in hell I would go on a business trip and let her go to her friend's without me. That will be the END of your marriage, my friend. Is that business trip worth it?
I agree, Turnera. If HurtAndLost goes on this business trip, and especially if he doesn't accompany his wife on her outing, wherever she's really going, it will send a strong message that he's already checked out of the marriage and that his wife is up for grabs. The message will be a strong one to the wayward wife, and an even stronger one to the other man (because guys always get it, even when women sometimes don't).
HurtAndLost, even if you think the business trip is important, is it more important to you than your marriage? I hope not. Your most important business right now should be preserving your family, and going with your wife and kids to visit her old college roommate should be fun and a step in the right direction, at least, if that really is where she's going.
I find it amazing but this is absolutely true and a big recurring theme in these things.
Entropy3000, you always get it! Even if it wasn't prearranged, I just picture the OM getting the idea to travel to the same town as the WW's college roommate. That way, he can check into a hotel and the roommate can watch the WW's kids while the WW comes over so they can "reconnect."
A hell of a lot of drama to pretend you're going to get back someone who's clearly put a huge investment in planning this out and skulking around to pull it off. She wants something different/better/whatever. Help her pack and send her off with a blessing and godspeed.
Update:
I got my wife alone late yesterday afternoon to basically say to her "I'm having a hard time handling this friendship you have with O.M., and I need to know what's going on." The conversation went around and around, with me trying to focus on how much I think it could damage our chances of getting back on track as husband and wife. She said, "you're trying to control me," to which I said, "I never control you... YOU control ME. And on this one thing I'm simply having a hard time with it." I think she's tired of me continuing to have relationship-centered conversations. So, I have to push through them. But the problem was I didn't have a gameplan. I think I just wanted to raise the red flag to her, and at least have it out there. That's b/c I don't feel like I have a strong enough case. (must be my insecurity). And I'm still not 100% sure that her friendship with this guy truly has escalated.
Anyway, I kept prying with her asking how much she had talked/emailed/texted with him since the wedding. She told me she's traded emails, but hadn't talked to him since last Sunday when he returned her sunglasses to her. I know that's a lie b/c she had talked to him at least twice on her cell phone (38min and 20 min conversations). And I wanted to know how many things she had planned to do with him. She had mentioned last Thursday that she wanted all of us to see his girls vball team play when they came into town, and I figured that was ok since we'd all be there. Well, she mentioned during our discussion that she was talking to him about meeting up at our local zoo with his kids and my kids (but not me). That was news to me and hit me in the gut... but she completely left out something: that she had invited him to the college football game that she had an extra ticket for. (I knew this b/c of a txt message I saw from him saying he couldn't make it) So, lie #2.
At that point I was furious. If she had copped to everything I knew, then I'd take it as a good sign. Instead, she lied about two pretty big things. And so I reacted. Badly. And said, "That's Bull****. You're lying."
She immediately blew up and ran out of the room, downstairs, and outside to where her parents and my kids were. This, of course, in hindsight was completely poor tactics on my part, but I had no other time to bring it up with her. I was thus completely disadvantaged with her support group around her. And the thing is that she can appear to be the victim b/c I challenged a core value of hers... honesty.
I've opened up Pandora's box now and am not sure where things are going to go from here. I ended up going on my trip b/c I think we need some distance. I'm willing to take the risk that she'll amp up contact with the O.M. I don't think it's going to escalate to a P.A. while she's visiting her college roommate. And, again, I already know just based on my behavior at the point of blowup that I'm my worst enemy... that I immediately felt bad (even though i was right) for having called her a liar. How messed up is that? Maybe it's best that I'm away and not contact her.
One problem I see with my approach is that I didn't have a strategy, and didn't go "all in" once a couple of lies were revealed. I only when halfway, but didn't tell her how I knew. Now I'm in a special circle of hell where I look like the jerk. And in my own mind I'm not convinced that there is an EA right now. I am convinced that left unchecked it would steal whatever threads of re-connection are still out there. She already admits she doesn't love me. And she has already checked out. And I told her this guy is a threat, whether she sees it that way or not.
I'm at a point where I'm in my own fog. I'm scared that I've turned a corner with her that I can't go back around. She's going to focus on me calling her a liar, and will never let me forget it. I could call her on it by revealing the truth of what I know, but then I will have the fallout of having to explain why I snooped... which would really shut her down. And I'm just not ready emotionally to think about what happens if everything breaks apart.
All are Beta behaviors. After all the posting and reading I've done on this forum, I now can say with all clarity that I am a Beta, and have been for a long time. I don't even know how to be Alpha. And she has said as much for a long time, that I need to man up or "sack up," that I need to say what I mean and mean what I say, and tons of other things. My problem is that I always believed she didn't want an Alpha in the house b/c she is 100% Alpha. We'd kill each other if we were both the same. I guess I'm wrong. I guess now is one of those opportunities to stick to my guns. If she ends up not talking to this guy anymore, she will hate me for it...and I think that wedge will be huge as well.
I feel for your situation. The part where she has stated she doesn't love you and has checked out of the marriage....BIG PROBLEM. As a DS myself I can tell you this, it will progress with her and this "friend". Good luck to you. Posted via Mobile Device
I feel for your situation. The part where she has stated she doesn't love you and has checked out of the marriage....BIG PROBLEM. As a DS myself I can tell you this, it will progress with her and this "friend". Good luck to you. Posted via Mobile Device
Just to clarify... she didn't state she has checked out. But, that's what she's done. When tell her over and over again that we don't talk enough or spend quality time together, she says, "I'm doing the best I can." Which I translate to her saying she gets up every morning, takes care of the kids, pays the bills, etc. etc.
And so I know that we have been on really bad footing for a long time. Even if this thing doesn't turn into an EA, I know that she's looking for newer and newer avenues to make herself happy. It may be as innocuous as spending more time with her girl-friends or picking up new hobbies, etc. I've gotten no indication that she wants to work on "us." She threw me a bone a couple of weeks ago by lining up a babysitter so we could go see a movie.. but just a movie. First date in a long time.
Additional info: I'm a child of an alcoholic, and know all about co-dependency. I'm reading HurtinginTN's long post and realize that I have been an enabler in my marriage for a long time. Especially after she got the goods on me (=porn) that she could hold over my head. Breaking out of the Beta and enabler cycle is a major mountain to climb, but others here have done it. However, I am 100% tortured by the picture of divorce... because of my 3 kids who I love very much. I never imagined in all my life that I'd end up playing a role in a broken home, since I swore that I would not put my kids through what I went through. It's to the point that I've rationalized and largely accepted my own suffering is worth minimizing the suffering on these three sweet young creatures. I have been playing peace-maker for so long with my anger-challenged wife to shield the kids, and to keep things together. And in the process have become a shell of a man.
Update:
I got my wife alone late yesterday afternoon to basically say to her "I'm having a hard time handling this friendship you have with O.M., and I need to know what's going on." The conversation went around and around, with me trying to focus on how much I think it could damage our chances of getting back on track as husband and wife. She said, "you're trying to control me," to which I said, "I never control you... YOU control ME. And on this one thing I'm simply having a hard time with it." I think she's tired of me continuing to have relationship-centered conversations. So, I have to push through them. But the problem was I didn't have a gameplan. I think I just wanted to raise the red flag to her, and at least have it out there. That's b/c I don't feel like I have a strong enough case. (must be my insecurity). And I'm still not 100% sure that her friendship with this guy truly has escalated.
Anyway, I kept prying with her asking how much she had talked/emailed/texted with him since the wedding. She told me she's traded emails, but hadn't talked to him since last Sunday when he returned her sunglasses to her. I know that's a lie b/c she had talked to him at least twice on her cell phone (38min and 20 min conversations). And I wanted to know how many things she had planned to do with him. She had mentioned last Thursday that she wanted all of us to see his girls vball team play when they came into town, and I figured that was ok since we'd all be there. Well, she mentioned during our discussion that she was talking to him about meeting up at our local zoo with his kids and my kids (but not me). That was news to me and hit me in the gut... but she completely left out something: that she had invited him to the college football game that she had an extra ticket for. (I knew this b/c of a txt message I saw from him saying he couldn't make it) So, lie #2.
At that point I was furious. If she had copped to everything I knew, then I'd take it as a good sign. Instead, she lied about two pretty big things. And so I reacted. Badly. And said, "That's Bull****. You're lying."
She immediately blew up and ran out of the room, downstairs, and outside to where her parents and my kids were. This, of course, in hindsight was completely poor tactics on my part, but I had no other time to bring it up with her. I was thus completely disadvantaged with her support group around her. And the thing is that she can appear to be the victim b/c I challenged a core value of hers... honesty.
I've opened up Pandora's box now and am not sure where things are going to go from here. I ended up going on my trip b/c I think we need some distance. I'm willing to take the risk that she'll amp up contact with the O.M. I don't think it's going to escalate to a P.A. while she's visiting her college roommate. And, again, I already know just based on my behavior at the point of blowup that I'm my worst enemy... that I immediately felt bad (even though i was right) for having called her a liar. How messed up is that? Maybe it's best that I'm away and not contact her.
One problem I see with my approach is that I didn't have a strategy, and didn't go "all in" once a couple of lies were revealed. I only when halfway, but didn't tell her how I knew. Now I'm in a special circle of hell where I look like the jerk. And in my own mind I'm not convinced that there is an EA right now. I am convinced that left unchecked it would steal whatever threads of re-connection are still out there. She already admits she doesn't love me. And she has already checked out. And I told her this guy is a threat, whether she sees it that way or not.
I'm at a point where I'm in my own fog. I'm scared that I've turned a corner with her that I can't go back around. She's going to focus on me calling her a liar, and will never let me forget it. I could call her on it by revealing the truth of what I know, but then I will have the fallout of having to explain why I snooped... which would really shut her down. And I'm just not ready emotionally to think about what happens if everything breaks apart.
All are Beta behaviors. After all the posting and reading I've done on this forum, I now can say with all clarity that I am a Beta, and have been for a long time. I don't even know how to be Alpha. And she has said as much for a long time, that I need to man up or "sack up," that I need to say what I mean and mean what I say, and tons of other things. My problem is that I always believed she didn't want an Alpha in the house b/c she is 100% Alpha. We'd kill each other if we were both the same. I guess I'm wrong. I guess now is one of those opportunities to stick to my guns. If she ends up not talking to this guy anymore, she will hate me for it...and I think that wedge will be huge as well.
You need to tell her ASAP. Call her right now on the phone. You need to calmly but firmly tell her that the relationship she has with this guy is not acceptable to you and it must stop right now with full NC immediately. That she is not to see this guy while you are on this trip ... period. Stop beating yourself up and blaming yourself for anything. She is the one who breaking her vows with this other man. You should have said this to her face to face but clearly if you wait any longer she is as good as gone. It may already be too late. You should not have gone on this trip.
See how she used the word controlling. That is validation. You don't think she has been physical and will not escalate for one reason only. That rerason has nothing to do with trust. She has shattered that. It is because the thought is abhorrent to you. You can;t deal with it so you want to believe eberything is ok. BAD IDEA DUDE.
You do not have to prove anything. Every hour you wait the further she is from you. Distance is not what you need right now. You are giving her space for her to escalate the affair. It appears that you wish to wait for her to consummate with the OM and continue to biond with him in emotional ans sexaul ways. Every intimat moment. Every intimate secret and yes every orgasm she has with this guy is bonding her to him.
Just to clarify... she didn't state she has checked out. But, that's what she's done. When tell her over and over again that we don't talk enough or spend quality time together, she says, "I'm doing the best I can." Which I translate to her saying she gets up every morning, takes care of the kids, pays the bills, etc. etc.
And so I know that we have been on really bad footing for a long time. Even if this thing doesn't turn into an EA, I know that she's looking for newer and newer avenues to make herself happy. It may be as innocuous as spending more time with her girl-friends or picking up new hobbies, etc. I've gotten no indication that she wants to work on "us." She threw me a bone a couple of weeks ago by lining up a babysitter so we could go see a movie.. but just a movie. First date in a long time.
Additional info: I'm a child of an alcoholic, and know all about co-dependency. I'm reading HurtinginTN's long post and realize that I have been an enabler in my marriage for a long time. Especially after she got the goods on me (=porn) that she could hold over my head. Breaking out of the Beta and enabler cycle is a major mountain to climb, but others here have done it. However, I am 100% tortured by the picture of divorce... because of my 3 kids who I love very much. I never imagined in all my life that I'd end up playing a role in a broken home, since I swore that I would not put my kids through what I went through. It's to the point that I've rationalized and largely accepted my own suffering is worth minimizing the suffering on these three sweet young creatures. I have been playing peace-maker for so long with my anger-challenged wife to shield the kids, and to keep things together. And in the process have become a shell of a man.
Dude, your wife is in a full blown EA at the very least. It is highly likely it has already gone to a PA. The OM and her now have you isolated because you are gone on a trip. Not to freak you out but who is to say they are not together today or will be. This week was your crucial test and you are failing right now .... badly.
If you do not want a divorce you need to tell her that she must go no contact with this OM who is taking your wife from you as each hour passes. You have to be willing to lose a person in these cases to have any hope of keeping them. If you do nothing she is gone. She will either sue you for divorce after killling your soul and emasculating you further or she will cuckold you. Ultimately this will break you apart and you will lose your home, have another man raise your kids and be left to pick up the broken pieces of your life.
Stop with the porn cr@p. You continue to blame yourself over silly stuff. This has nothing to do with that. Your wife has the hots for another man. True the porn thing may have influenced you into losing any Alpha apeal from your wife. The way you fix that now is to stand up and be a man .... right f'ing now.
You are F'ing up. Stand up for yourself, your marriage, your children AND your wife. Do it for your kids if no other reason.
You would have shown real backbone ... rather balls if you had canceled your trip to work this out with her. You not fighting for her validates you are the man for her.
I am hitting you hard here because I think you need. I wish you luck ... heading out on a week long business trip myself. I hope you decide to fight for your marriage.
Re: How early to suspect an EA? 
