I'm looking for feedback from the forum b/c I've had a terrible feeling in my gut all week that my wife is in the very early stage of an EA. I could either be completely paranoid/jealous/crazy OR I could be right. I'd much rather be the former in this case. The question I'm asking is: is there such a thing as 'too early' to suspect an EA?
LONG Background -- my wife and I have been married for 7 years. She is 34 and I'm almost 41. We have three young children under the age of 5yrs, 3yrs and she stays at home while I commute 2 hrs each day and travel quite a bit for work.
Our marriage has been on shaky footing for a while, mostly b/c of (full disclosure) a sexual addiction problem I had which came to a head in March 2007 -- she found evidence of me looking at internet pornography. I told her I would quit, and did, but I did not make any concrete outward steps to recovery until Sept 2009 when I finally went to a christian-based recovery weekend...and followed up with a year long recovery group. Since then I've worked more on my spiritual side, made very overt acts of contrition, and just generally tried to dig myself out of the hole I put our marriage in. I do not deny to her that I was wrong and that it was my fault.
Still, over the last 4 years she has become increasingly withdrawn from me, and tells me that it's due to her continued disappointment in my ability to function in the marriage (I don't know how to love her, I don't listen well, I don't know how to be married, I don't cheerfully contribute around the house, I suffocate her, etc. etc.). She also told me in a discussion earlier this week that she really hasn't let go of the betrayal she felt... she "forgives me" but can't move on. It's to the point where she doesn't love me any more. She rarely looks me in the eye anymore, rarely even kisses or hugs me, and obviously we're in a really dry patch of intimacy (1 failed time in the last two years). Clearly our marriage needs healing.
Now over the last 3+ months she has decided that she's "going to take care of herself b/c no one else will." This coincides with her finally being free of nursing a baby. That means that she found a gym for us to belong to where she can take classes/workout. (she was never really into working out over the last 7 yrs, but I take it on good faith that she's trying to get her body back from giving birth to and nursing 3 kids in 5 years). She also is reading more books, reaching out to friends more, taking time for things like nail jobs and haircuts, buying some more clothes to get away from her worn out maternity clothes. She recently had some cosmetic surgery to remove some things from her skin that she hated to see. And she's even talking about having more serious body-sculpting surgery. Every one of these things on their own have merit, and perhaps even all of them together. But I still worry that she's looking for something she can't find. (I have a good friend whose wife did both the surgery and fitness, and their marriage ended in an EA...so my radar is up). I also worry that by "working on herself," there's even less chance for us to relate. Perhaps I just need to man up and stop being so needy!
Now, on to the present day...
Last weekend my wife went to a wedding in her hometown where the bridal party were all good friends of hers from high school. It was kind of a reunion, and I again supported it b/c I encourage her to find some time for herself to be something besides "mom." But, the one major twinge I had was that she was going as the "date" of the best man (B.M.). The B.M., the groom, and one of the groomsmen were all very close friends of hers who spent lots of time in her parents' house growing up, and by all accounts the relationships were platonic and they were stand-up guys. She's had mostly spotty contact over the last 10+ years with those guys until recently. Now in 2011 the B.M. is 1 year removed from an ugly divorce (which was the result of an affair) and he is living a less-than-ideal life. This is another red flag for me. He has two young kids of his own, and is living with his parents again and is saddled with a lot of debt from his 1st marriage. But, he knows my wife very well and she obviously really likes him as a friend.
She went to the wedding, stayed out until 4am with the group, B.M. drove her back to her car, and then she crashed at the house of a girl friend (who was out of town on vacation). The next day I saw her when I drove the kids up to meet up with her. She was really elated having seen her old H.S. friends, and was texting quite a bit throughout the day. On the other hand, she was very depressed that we don't live closer b/c she wishes that those people were more a part of our daily life. She even took a look at real estate ads on the drive home to see if a cheap place could be had for us to go to periodically on weekends. (that might have just been an in-the-moment thing).
Meanwhile, we get home Sunday night and she calls her mom... at one point I overhear her saying that B.M. mentioned that he has another wedding to go to later this month and she could go with him. Her response was that it wouldn't work b/c we are going on vacation the next day. It wasn't "oh, that's not the right thing to do."
Right away my radar is on 100%. I had difficulty sleeping Sunday night. And by Monday I was going nuts... I needed some proof that I wasn't crazy... and so I did something that I really shouldn't do-- look at her phone and email. The phone had far fewer txt msgs than I thought it should have (based on how many she seemed to send on Sunday) and it showed a 38 minute conversation with B.M. that she had after we stopped halfway on the way home for me to pick up my car. Her email, which I could only look at briefly, had a few VERY long, largely inocuous messages traded between them. Some of the content was iffy, like him talking about the types of girls he was trying to date. But, what caught me really off-guard is that she offered to go to a college football game with him which she has tickets for and also to see him when he comes into town this fall with a college team he coaches. The football game isn't going to work b/c of his coaching schedule, and the visit to our town she brought up later to me as a chance for us all to meet him. But still... it feels like they are working out ways to see each other and undoubtedly more will come.
Those things were enough to cause me a full night without sleep on Monday. And really the rest of the week hasn't been any better. I've lost appetite, had a knot in my stomach, and been very anxious. I can't help the feeling that I want to know if there is more going on. There was even another 20 minute cell phone call yesterday from her to him. I have serious suspicions that she's contacting him through Facebook and email -- (1) we sleep in seperate rooms b/c I snore and last night she took the computer upstairs to bed, and (2) on Tuesday or Wed night she quickly closed a browser window when I came downstairs into the living room. And yesterday a copy of P90X DVDs came in the mail from him, since he told her he's been doing it and she should too.
I know enough already from some conversations I've initiated with her that she's going to do all the things people say over and over in this forum. I won't even be able to bring it up without her exploding at me. She's even informed me that she *does* intend to take more trips back to her hometown to re-establish contact with all of her old friends, both male and female. I'm worried that all of this is leading to her coming much closer emotionally and physically to this guy (B.M.)
Am I on my way down the road that so many of you guys have gone down? Or am I completely looking for a tempest in a teacup? If it is the former, what should I do? I don't want to keep snooping b/c it is wrong and it only makes me feel worse. But I don't want to get blindsided. I'm contemplating talking to her dad just to feel him out...but that may backfire too.
You are way, way over your head and this is way further than it should have gotten. You are NOT cathcing this early.
There are so many issues I don't know where to start.
I don't persoanlly wish to debate porn. All I will say is that porn in general is no where near equivalent to dating other people falling inot an EA and then to a PA. Some may disagree but I think they are wacko. Maybe your porn got inot some webcam stuff .... But while there is definitely part of a bigger problem that needs to be resolved, you have bigger fish to fry.
hold off on talking with her father for now but do put on your detective hat and start looking for concrete evidence of anything. How does she act when she gets a phone call? Is she open and casual speaking on the phone and will she talk with you in the room or does she take the phone and hide? Can you get access to her phone to check call history and text messages? If not, you can go to your carrier and request a print off of the past month (or beyond) of all phone records. Does she often talk about this man? As in just bringing him up casually in conversation? And the biggest red flag of all---has she ever called him "just a friend"? If she has used those 3 words, the odds are very high there is something stinky going on. Also, with her new gym routine, while I understand people want to be in shape and look good, is there anything strange about her working out that does not fit her normal behavior pattern? Such as does she wear make up to the gymn or does she fix her hair first? (why would someone who is just going to get sweaty fix their hair and make up first?) Can you associate this man to the gym at all? As in, does he have a membership there?
For your snoring, you can buy nasal strips. My ex was a snorer too and those little nasal strips really work. Go buy some and crawl in bed with your wife tonight. Watch her reaction. Is she happy to have you there or does she get defensive? Oh and next time she "intends" to go back to her hometown, let her know you intend to go with her. You after all, her husband.
You are way, way over your head and this is way further than it should have gotten. You are NOT cathcing this early.
There are so many issues I don't know where to start.
I don't persoanlly wish to debate porn. All I will say is that porn in general is no where near equivalent to dating other people falling inot an EA and then to a PA. Some may disagree but I think they are wacko. Maybe your porn got inot some webcam stuff .... But while there is definitely part of a bigger problem that needs to be resolved, you have bigger fish to fry.
Got a meeting now but will post more afterwards.
You are going to need to act today on this.
The porn was just run-of-the mill passive. No webcams.
The porn was just run-of-the mill passive. No webcams.
Ok, I will concede that for many women porn is an issue. I guess they can feel how they feel. BUT you have addressed it. Again your wife can feel how she feels.
I think we should just say that this is part of a root cause in your marriage for issues that you guys need to work out.
Wife vulnerable to an affair due to marriage issues --- check
hold off on talking with her father for now but do put on your detective hat and start looking for concrete evidence of anything. How does she act when she gets a phone call? Is she open and casual speaking on the phone and will she talk with you in the room or does she take the phone and hide? Can you get access to her phone to check call history and text messages? If not, you can go to your carrier and request a print off of the past month (or beyond) of all phone records. Does she often talk about this man? As in just bringing him up casually in conversation? And the biggest red flag of all---has she ever called him "just a friend"? If she has used those 3 words, the odds are very high there is something stinky going on. Also, with her new gym routine, while I understand people want to be in shape and look good, is there anything strange about her working out that does not fit her normal behavior pattern? Such as does she wear make up to the gymn or does she fix her hair first? (why would someone who is just going to get sweaty fix their hair and make up first?) Can you associate this man to the gym at all? As in, does he have a membership there?
No, he's not at our gym. He lives 2hrs away. But, she does get her hair pulled back and wears smart yoga clothes. That's not a big red flag to me, only b/c she in general doesn't like to go anywhere looking shabby.
I haven't heard her saying he's "just a friend" b/c I've been *very* cagey so far about zeroing in on this one guy. I've discussed it with her more in the light of "I don't want us to grow apart even further if you spend even more time away from me." So far this week she has been pretty open to talking about him... I'd be even more worried if she clammed up. And that might happen soon anyway. The thing is that I don't think this particular relationship has been going on for a long time. Perhaps it has been hit or miss via Facebook over the last few years, but now I really think it has ramped up 1000%.
I can't pull her cell records b/c her phone is on her Dad's family share plan. That is why ultimately I feel like I'll need to go to him for evidence. I highly doubt that she will ever call this guy while I'm around. She can do that while I'm at work or travelling or she is in her car running errands.
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For your snoring, you can buy nasal strips. My ex was a snorer too and those little nasal strips really work. Go buy some and crawl in bed with your wife tonight. Watch her reaction. Is she happy to have you there or does she get defensive? Oh and next time she "intends" to go back to her hometown, let her know you intend to go with her. You after all, her husband.
I've tried the nasal strips before and mouthpieces and sleep studies. No cure-alls. And I've been in the guest room for a long time by now. I brought it up the other night and she said, "I need my sleep and I can still hear you snoring from down the hall."
Regarding her hometown visits, I've made it very clear that I want to go, so I can "get to know her friends back there."
I thought this would be similar to my situation. My h was constantly talking about a coworker, but never had a negative thing to say. I dug deeper and found that he sent funny emails to her (no one else) called her nicknames a few times, and felt comfortable saying an innapropriate joke. I talked to my H and her. They both claim innocence, and I think that's possible, but they were getting far too comfortable with eachother. Even if their ease into inappropriateness was unconscious, she pulled a stunt yesterday that let me know she was missing the attention she used to get.
Your situation is way beyond a beginning EA. Your wife disrespects you and tells you how it's going to be. Your feelings no longer concern her. She's already gaslighting and blameshifting. You are actually comfortable saying she went on a date. She's managed to guilt you into being submissive. Gather your evidence and confront ASAP. Let her know that you won't be in an open marriage and follow through with actions. If you remain scared for much longer it might be too late. Posted via Mobile Device
So with all these red flags, you feel that snooping is wrong? Then prepare to be blindsided.
My comment about it being wrong is based on lots of other things I've read on other blogs... that it's a betrayal of trust, and a landmine for dealing with the EA (if it exists). Believe me, I'm torn on whether I believe that, but I know that if I'm wrong in the long-run on the EA, and yet I show that I don't trust her, then I may do irreperable damage to the marriage. She says over and over that loyalty and trust is a huge thing to her.
These two are both good and RED FLAGS for you. When you couple this with her statement that she is going to start taking care of herself, I actually see this as a threat to go find intimacy with other men since she has issues with you.
Her motivation for these changes is important. They may not have been undertaken for one reason only but getting her sex rank up on purpose to attract men would be a big problem. Let us assume for the moment that this was not her intention. Her sex rank has been raised anyway and she will attract more men and hotter men whether that was her intention or not.
If you were to rate your sex rank and her sex rank before she did this improvement on a scale of 1 - 10 what would your ranks be:
If you were to evaluate these now what would they be.
The above is a serious question and it does matter.
For men to improve their sex rank significantly take much time and effort. Yes a man can dress better. But beyond that he would need to do what she has done as far as working out. Or he can get a promotion and so on. Takes time and effort.
On the other hand, above and beyond what your wife has done already to improve her sex rank women can up their sex rank immediately by one or two points by the way they dress and by their interest with a man in a sexaul way. So if she starts dressing more sexy, showing more skin, change her undergarments or goes sans under garments ( going braless for example ) and in general is bringing attention on herself due to hewr sexual attraction. Improves her makeup and so on. A women is more sexual during ovulation.
Was your wife ovulating last weeked. Sounds creepy to ask but it matters. Cheating with women occurs much more when they are ovulating. Not a requirement but if you are trying to determine if they had a PA last weekend it matters.
My comment about it being wrong is based on lots of other things I've read on other blogs... that it's a betrayal of trust, and a landmine for dealing with the EA (if it exists). Believe me, I'm torn on whether I believe that, but I know that if I'm wrong in the long-run on the EA, and yet I show that I don't trust her, then I may do irreperable damage to the marriage. She says over and over that loyalty and trust is a huge thing to her.
Your wife is going to be mad and blameshift. She WILL call it a violation of privacy. That is typical fog behavior. Posted via Mobile Device
Your situation is way beyond a beginning EA. Your wife disrespects you and tells you how it's going to be. Your feelings no longer concern her. She's already gaslighting and blameshifting. You are actually comfortable saying she went on a date. She's managed to guilt you into being submissive. Gather your evidence and confront ASAP. Let her know that you won't be in an open marriage and follow through with actions. If you remain scared for much longer it might be too late. Posted via Mobile Device
Well... I'm not comfortable saying she went on a date. Maybe I should say she accompanied him as his "guest" to the wedding and that was how it was sold to me. But now it feels like more than that.
The other thing is that he really was not brought up in our conversations prior to this wedding 1 week ago. And there's a part of me that thinks whatever "it" is that has developed over the last week is just that.... brand new. She was ripe for the picking -- no doubt -- and this wedding may end up being a catalyst for something she was set up for emotionally. That's why I'm feeling like this is *early* in the actual manifestation of two people interacting inappropriately.
My comment about it being wrong is based on lots of other things I've read on other blogs... that it's a betrayal of trust, and a landmine for dealing with the EA (if it exists). Believe me, I'm torn on whether I believe that, but I know that if I'm wrong in the long-run on the EA, and yet I show that I don't trust her, then I may do irreperable damage to the marriage. She says over and over that loyalty and trust is a huge thing to her.
There are no secrets in a marriage. It is a betrayal of trust to not look out for your partner. Your are not snooping for your own benefit. You are snooping for the relationship AND to stop your wife from making a horrible mistake.
Get over this now or just hand your wife to this other guy. It is that simple.
You should not be biindly trusting her. You have reason to check. She should not have reason to hide anything from you.
Short story. I was in an EA with a co-worker. My wife saw the signs. She snooped. She called me on it and saved our marriage. If she had not my marriage would have been destroyed. I love her no end for doing this.
Seriously get over this attitude, stand up and fight for your marriage or just give away your wife.
Well... I'm not comfortable saying she went on a date. Maybe I should say she accompanied him as his "guest" to the wedding and that was how it was sold to me. But now it feels like more than that.
The other thing is that he really was not brought up in our conversations prior to this wedding 1 week ago. And there's a part of me that thinks whatever "it" is that has developed over the last week is just that.... brand new. She was ripe for the picking -- no doubt -- and this wedding may end up being a catalyst for something she was set up for emotionally. That's why I'm feeling like this is *early* in the actual manifestation of two people interacting inappropriately.
Another man escorted your wife. It was a date. She was with him becasue she is a women and he was a man. If they were not opposite sex they would not have been together as a couple. Period. Your wife should not be dating other men unless your are into being cuckolded.
This was a date. There is ahuge chance this went physical already. It may not have. It will get there though as this is a full blown EA right now.
Weddings are hot and sexy. Opportunities for fantasy and intimacy you cannot match. See movie Wedding Crashers. Funny movie and all that but there is some real truth here.
The fact that he wants her to go with him to another Wedding is an over the top RED FLAG.
I guess you said he had an affair that broke up his marriage. UFB.
Anyway -- Instigate, Isolate, Escalate
Ok these are the three phases a predator uses to take your wife.
We see all three already.
Instigate -- The instigatation was for her to be his escort and frankly we know that really this occurred well before and even this first date may actually be a phase of escaltion. This may have been through, Facebook or whatever.
Isolate -- Her primary male ( you dear sir ) was isolated from their presence during the wedding and later activities. She had her own place to sleep and could share that with him. It is likely he came over to visit at least if not having actual relations. Perhaps some kissing. 100% sure? No just very likely. Start snooping ... now. Who knows what happened as you were isolated. So he got you isolated and she helped. You are isolated by having to snoop on her emails and facebook. No secrets in marriage remember? Your wife and thus guy have secrets. She has secrets with another man not her husband.
Escalate -- Inviting her to another Wedding. Facebook, emails and texts. He is wanting to move the affair on to new levels.
How early to suspect an EA? 
