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post #136 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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Stay strong B- and keep your distance in the hope that soon she will see the bottom of the barrel and seek help.
I know with hope comes disappointment, so distance your self and watch.
My thinking is if you stop engaging her she may find a last ditch effort to repair the marriage and with that it will be under your terms and that pro help and meds will be step one for her.

The thing that sucks is, after reading all of the above replies it seems like a long road or a cold day before she will ever take a desprite approach to do things on your term!
TheGuy: I do expect that she will crash soon and come back, paradoxically telling me to return to the old apartment as she beats me over the head.

But given what she has done, and more pointedly, the severe psychosis she suffers (whether BPD or other), it would be very hard for me to take her back. I am proceeding firmly on the separation and divorce path. I told her about separation, but haven't spelled out D-I-V-O-R-C-E yet. I want to be wearing Kevlar and have at least one witness present before I inform her of that!

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post #137 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 08:46 AM
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Re: Distressed

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Why would she offer to bring this guy along and then get me to ditch him right away?
More to the point, why are you asking this question? You already know the answer. Because your W has little impulse control and no strong sense of who she really is, she often does not know what she will want to be doing in the next hour, much less the next day. That is how emotionally unstable people behave.
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I do expect that she will crash soon and come back, paradoxically telling me to return to the old apartment as she beats me over the head.
If your W does decide she wants you back, she won't be beating you "over the head." Be prepared to see plenty of love bombing and adoration. If that doesn't work, it likely will be followed by a sobbing, shaking, physical disintegration that will be heart breaking to witness. No matter how angry you are with her, seeing another human being come apart at the seams is simply horrifying. In the 15 years I lived with my BPDer exW, I saw it happen only a few times. What I saw was a four year old girl who was writhing in pain, disintegrating in front of me. Of course, no matter how angry I had been, each time I embraced her and held her tight until she stopped shaking.
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But given what she has done, and more pointedly, the severe psychosis she suffers (whether BPD or other) ....
Actually, you have described nothing to indicate your W is psychotic or crazy. Psychosis occurs when a person loses contact with physical reality, e.g., believing that the news announcer on TV is speaking to her personally. In contrast, a personality disorder like BPD only distorts the person's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. BPDers perceive of physical reality just fine.

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post #138 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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More to the point, why are you asking this question? You already know the answer. Because your W has little impulse control and no strong sense of who she really is, she often does not know what she will want to be doing in the next hour, much less the next day. That is how emotionally unstable people behave.If your W does decide she wants you back, she won't be beating you "over the head." Be prepared to see plenty of love bombing and adoration. If that doesn't work, it likely will be followed by a sobbing, shaking, physical disintegration that will be heart breaking to witness. No matter how angry you are with her, seeing another human being come apart at the seams is simply horrifying. In the 15 years I lived with my BPDer exW, I saw it happen only a few times. What I saw was a four year old girl who was writhing in pain, disintegrating in front of me. Of course, no matter how angry I had been, each time I embraced her and held her tight until she stopped shaking.Actually, you have described nothing to indicate your W is psychotic or crazy. Psychosis occurs when a person loses contact with physical reality, e.g., believing that the news announcer on TV is speaking to her personally. In contrast, a personality disorder like BPD only distorts the person's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. BPDers perceive of physical reality just fine.
Uptown, you are right, I do know the answer to the first question; I was just observing in restrospect, and venting. Thanks for listening.

I really hope I don't see her disintegrating in front of me.

And thanks for setting me straight re terms like psychosis. I should be more careful in my terminology. But I a still trying to understand this stuff about BDPers having a distorted perception of other people, but having a good perspective of reality.
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post #139 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 12:33 PM
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Re: Distressed

Sometimes it takes a divorce for a person to hit rock bottom, this may be one of those situations. Nevertheless, it is unhealthy for you to continue being in such a toxic marriage.

'I'd rather live by a dream, than live by a lie.
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post #140 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 05:13 PM
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Re: Distressed

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I a still trying to understand this stuff about BDPers having a distorted perception of other people, but having a good perspective of reality.
It is very easy to understand because this very same distortion has already happened to you a thousand times. During your childhood, it happened dozens of times a day, every time you got angry. Even during adulthood, the distortion still happens every time you get angry. You are so familiar with it that, by the time you were in your teens, you already knew that you cannot trust your own judgment when you are very angry (or very infatuated). That's why you and I usually wait until we have a chance to cool off before opening our mouths or taking action. And that's why stable, mature people will wait until the infatuation period passes before deciding whether to get married to a new love.

Well, BPDers are pretty much the same as us in that intense emotions distort their perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. The difference, of course, is that BPDers usually don't wait to cool off before speaking or acting. The reason is that they lack impulse control and they experience intense feelings far more frequently than we do. Hence, BPDers do not differ from us "Nons" in kind but, rather, only in degree.

In contrast, a psychotic person loses touch with physical reality and becomes delusional. I once met a young man, for example, who was convinced that people in planes flying overhead were spying on him. He also believed that people on TV were speaking to him personally.
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post #141 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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Even during adulthood, the distortion still happens every time you get angry. You are so familiar with it that, by the time you were in your teens, you already knew that you cannot trust your own judgment when you are very angry (or very infatuated). That's why you and I usually wait until we have a chance to cool off before opening our mouths or taking action. And that's why stable, mature people will wait until the infatuation period passes before deciding whether to get married to a new love.

Well, BPDers are pretty much the same as us in that intense emotions distort their perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations. The difference, of course, is that BPDers usually don't wait to cool off before speaking or acting. The reason is that they lack impulse control and they experience intense feelings far more frequently than we do.
Wow, you've just hit a button here for me. When my wife and I would have an argument that got heated and wasn't going to get resolved quickly, I'd often say something like, "honey, let's sleep (together) on this, have a nice breakfast tomorrow, and talk about things then in a calm, mood once we both can think about it and cool down". She would have nothing of it, and seemed to choose to misunderstand my desire not to let the heat of the moment get the better of us as me avoiding the issue and not wanting to deal with it NOW! This was some supposed character defect on my part, when I thought quite the opposite. She really seemed to relish battle wherever it happened, even over minor things. Not that she picked fights all the time (sometimes yes), she just didn't do what most people do to avoid them, tone them down, compromise, say at least "I regret that that happened" as a way to begin discussion without allocating fault.

And of course, she is always right. When she clearly isn't, the incident disappears from our collective consciousness within seconds.
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post #142 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

I haven't heard from her in almost 48 hours.

I sent her an email last evening saying basically "We are where we are, no point in fighting with each other, let's just be as civil as possible with each other so the transformation doesn't hurt any more than it has to".

No response. Is she celebrating, disintegrating, out with OM to distract herself, trying to outwait me, plotting some counter-attack, or what?

Once again, the weirdness of all this is really wearing on me.
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post #143 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 04:08 PM
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Re: Distressed

Berilo, thanks for the update.
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I haven't heard from her in almost 48 hours.
Please forgive me for being flip but your W -- like my exW -- gives new meaning to the expression, "No news is good news."
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No response. Is she celebrating, disintegrating, out with OM to distract herself, trying to outwait me, plotting some counter-attack, or what?
Does it matter? I mean, seriously? No matter what a BPDer is plotting, thinking, or scheming today, everything can easily change 180 degrees next week -- or even tomorrow. Being unable to control their emotions, they go with the whim of whatever intense feeling is sweeping through their minds at the moment. Instead of challenging that feeling intellectually, they accept it as truth. This is why I always advise "Nons" to not fret and worry about what a BPDer is thinking or planning at this particular moment in time. It will quickly change.

And this is why, despite all their attempts to manipulate and control their partners, BPDers are not very good at manipulation. They are too reactive to their current feelings. For manipulation to be effective, good planning and flawless execution are required -- both of which are usually undone by a BPDer's lack of impulse control. Instead of manipulation, you are more likely to see controlling and opportunistic behavior -- where your W sees an opportunity suddenly present itself that enables her to take advantage of you.
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Once again, the weirdness of all this is really wearing on me.
Yes, that "weirdness" of seeing what-you-believed-to-be-your-soul-mate turn on you and betray you is so familiar to all of us Nons who were in a BPDer relationship. That's why BPDcentral -- at BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - support -- calls its forum "Welcome to Oz." (Another great BPD forum targeted to us Nons is BPDfamily, which I mentioned earlier.) That otherworldly feeling of waking up to find the world turned upside down will rapidly diminish over time, if you heal at the rate I did. In my case, however, it has never disappeared entirely. Instead, the feeling just occurs farther and farther apart. So I still have rare days -- five years post separation -- of feeling that way.
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post #144 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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Please forgive me for being flip but your W -- like my exW -- gives new meaning to the expression, "No news is good news."Does it matter? I mean, seriously?
You are right. No news is probably good news -- certainly much better than her coming over and making a scene or smashing something! But I am very anxious to get this awful period in my life over with.

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And this is why, despite all their attempts to manipulate and control their partners, BPDers are not very good at manipulation. They are too reactive to their current feelings. For manipulation to be effective, good planning and flawless execution are required -- both of which are usually undone by a BPDer's lack of impulse control. Instead of manipulation, you are more likely to see controlling and opportunistic behavior -- where your W sees an opportunity suddenly present itself that enables her to take advantage of you.
I saw this -- even her manipulation was amateurish. (She can't plan anything three steps away.) Control and opportunism were her things.

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Yes, that "weirdness" of seeing what-you-believed-to-be-your-soul-mate turn on you and betray you is so familiar to all of us Nons who were in a BPDer relationship. That's why BPDcentral -- at BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - support -- calls its forum "Welcome to Oz." (Another great BPD forum targeted to us Nons is BPDfamily, which I mentioned earlier.) That otherworldly feeling of waking up to find the world turned upside down will rapidly diminish over time, if you heal at the rate I did. In my case, however, it has never disappeared entirely. Instead, the feeling just occurs farther and farther apart. So I still have rare days -- five years post separation -- of feeling that way.
This is a huge trauma for me. But although my heart is heavier than a few months ago, my shoulders are lighter -- I feel like a big weight has been taken off of them.

And unlike past big breakups I have had in my life -- where I always felt a sense of reget and what-could-we-have-done-better, regardless of who pulled the plug on the relationship -- I know this is 100% the right thing to do. Run as fast as possible. I never want to see my wife romancing another man like that again, let alone look into the eyes of a violent, raving maniac, like I did on Friday night.

Other than the mechanics and costs of the divorce, my biggest problem will be social -- what do I tell other people, especially those who think she is the greatest person around, and that I won the lottery to be with her! I don't want to spread private information, but I don't want to suffer opproprium that shouldn't be directed at me. I am thinking of just saying "She had an affair with another man. I couldn't accept that, so I left."
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post #145 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 10:45 AM
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Re: Distressed

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I am thinking of just saying "She had an affair with another man. I couldn't accept that, so I left."
Which is the absolute truth. You should expose her to others even if you have no intention of reconciling with her.


'I'd rather live by a dream, than live by a lie.
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post #146 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 02:06 PM
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Re: Distressed

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I am thinking of just saying "She had an affair with another man. I couldn't accept that, so I left."
I agree with Morituri that this is an appropriate short remark that is true. I would avoid telling casual friends you believe she has strong BPD traits because the affair itself is sufficient reason for leaving. In my case, however, I did tell casual friends about my exW's BPD traits -- because she had been telling them that I was violent and a frequent liar and she had to have me arrested and thrown into jail for her protection (the having me arrested part is true). Because high functioning BPDers typically show their dark side only to close loved ones, it is common for a Non ex-partner to lose most of the couple's common friends. None of them can imagine that the BPDer would ever lie about such things. But, then, you won't lose any of your true, close friends.
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post #147 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-09-2011, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

She called me this morning, wants to talk. We fixed a time for Sunday afternoon, but I made sure it is in a public place.

I don't know exactly what she wants to talk about. Certainly we have a few "business" items to discuss -- for me, it will be a test of how amicable this split is going to be.

I will avoid being drawn into any replay of last week's drama, but let's see what she will do. Certainly, I will be ready to bolt from the public place if things get difficult.

Any advice on how to handle it? I don't want to assume she wants to be aggressive, or wants to try to save the marriage, until I see. Maybe with luck she'll agree on the way forward and we can both exit stage left and right, respectively, at a minimum of hassle and expense. But I am not hopeful, somehow ...
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post #148 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-09-2011, 09:35 AM
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Re: Distressed

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She called me this morning, wants to talk. We fixed a time for Sunday afternoon, but I made sure it is in a public place.

I don't know exactly what she wants to talk about. Certainly we have a few "business" items to discuss -- for me, it will be a test of how amicable this split is going to be.

I will avoid being drawn into any replay of last week's drama, but let's see what she will do. Certainly, I will be ready to bolt from the public place if things get difficult.

Any advice on how to handle it? I don't want to assume she wants to be aggressive, or wants to try to save the marriage, until I see. Maybe with luck she'll agree on the way forward and we can both exit stage left and right, respectively, at a minimum of hassle and expense. But I am not hopeful, somehow ...
Put a VAR in ur pocket so if she do anything this time put her in Jail
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post #149 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-09-2011, 05:27 PM
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Re: Distressed

Berilo, I agree with Sam that a voice activated recorder will be a wise purchase if you don't already have one. Just carry it in your front pocket. Choosing a public place was very smart. Best of luck to you!
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post #150 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-09-2011, 11:04 PM
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Re: Distressed

B-
Were ever you go, make sure there is no TV, more importantly, no remote :-)
Good luck stay focused and journal, it will help organize your thoughts in a time when you can be all over the place (emotionaly).
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