Have you ever asked her why she never mentions what she has done to you? Just curious. Many posters, myself included, wonder why many DS ignore that point.
As a BPDer she won't . Anything she has done was Berilo's fault. If he asks she will turn it around and make herself the victim.
I agree that she will never admit her fault at A till the day she draws her last breath. Some people are like that. Just move on with D. She is hopeless.
As a BPDer she won't . Anything she has done was Berilo's fault. If he asks she will turn it around and make herself the victim.
Is this ever true ... I have never in my life experienced something like this, where someone who is at fault for the cheating (and 50% responsible for the marriage) accepts zero responsibility. The closest she has come is that two or three times she has made the blanket statement "I have made my mistakes", before she launches into another torrent of criticism of me. Her "mistakes" are never specified, mine are itemized.
She seems to think that all the love messages and attention with the OM over the past months is nothing, and that I am somehow overreacting, that I am a "jealous husband". I'd like to post some of the love messages to the OM -- they are so lengthy, adolescent, and over-the-top -- and get the forum's views on whether I am imagining something. I find them obscene; no normal woman who is reasonably content in her marriage would ever write that kind of stuff. So she isn't normal, or she isn't happy with the marriage. In either case I/we have a huge problem. She doesn't want to realize that, which is enormously frustrating for me.
Unfortunately, this fits the standard BPD pattern perfectly. Even if she weren't BPD it is a fatal conduct for a happy marriage.
Is this ever true ... I have never in my life experienced something like this, where someone who is at fault for the cheating (and 50% responsible for the marriage) accepts zero responsibility. The closest she has come is that two or three times she has made the blanket statement "I have made my mistakes", before she launches into another torrent of criticism of me. Her "mistakes" are never specified, mine are itemized.
She seems to think that all the love messages and attention with the OM over the past months is nothing, and that I am somehow overreacting, that I am a "jealous husband". I'd like to post some of the love messages to the OM -- they are so lengthy, adolescent, and over-the-top -- and get the forum's views on whether I am imagining something. I find them obscene; no normal woman who is reasonably content in her marriage would ever write that kind of stuff. So she isn't normal, or she isn't happy with the marriage. In either case I/we have a huge problem. She doesn't want to realize that, which is enormously frustrating for me.
Unfortunately, this fits the standard BPD pattern perfectly. Even if she weren't BPD it is a fatal conduct for a happy marriage.
You have to push them into the corner where they have absolutely nowhere to turn but to face it and apologize for it. Even, so you will get somewhat half-hearted apology. It is more of a gradual process of chipping away the hard shell of refusing to face the reality.
For example, if you have the hard evidence of email correspondence, then print them out, even highlight the "juicy" parts, and confront her with them. Make a speculated timeline of progression of A, based on whatever evidence you can find, and try discussing it with her. You have to try not to encourage her defensive attitude when you confront. Maybe somewhat cordial and soft approach may work? Anyway, no matter how angry you may feel, do not berate her or raise your voice at her.
Even so, she will play hard not to face it and apologize for it. Lots of blameshifting and attempting to change topics even. Be consistent without losing your temper everytime you do this. If she asks why you are doing this, what you want, etc., tell her you want a sincere apology. Do not use the word, "remorse". That would sound too over the top that she may not respond so well. You set the bar just high enough for her to be willing to jump over. Once she starts admitting it and saying "I am sorry", thank her for making you feel just a little less resentful. It's like coaxing a little kid to do things without getting mad at them. Also, that first "sorry" statement should be treated kinda like the first tiny speck of ember while trying to start a fire in a desert island without a match.
This was the approach I took with my XGF who I highly suspect was BPDer.
For example, if you have the hard evidence of email correspondence, then print them out, even highlight the "juicy" parts, and confront her with them. Make a speculated timeline of progression of A, based on whatever evidence you can find, and try discussing it with her. You have to try not to encourage her defensive attitude when you confront. Maybe somewhat cordial and soft approach may work? Anyway, no matter how angry you may feel, do not berate her or raise your voice at her.
Even so, she will play hard not to face it and apologize for it. Lots of blameshifting and attempting to change topics even. Be consistent without losing your temper everytime you do this. If she asks why you are doing this, what you want, etc., tell her you want a sincere apology.
Thanks, sadc. The same thing is going on with me.
I actually had the love emails themselves, because I sent them to my own account when I found them on hers. I sent her the three juiciest ones after our big fight last month, highlighting in yellow particularly painful passages for me, and stating only that "It appears from these emails that you married the wrong man. I hope you find happiness."
She hasn't responded to my email. Hasn't even acknowledged it, but she did refer obliquely to it once.
Also, when I talk about not wanting to be in a marriage of three people, she just says "we're not".
I don't get an apology, just blame shifting, gas lighting, and "please come back home, you jerk"!
Tell her, "you can call me jerk or whatever, but the truth is I am deeply hurt, and there is not a day that goes by I don't think about this affair. I am so hurt and still devastated. And, you don't even offer me a genuine apology. What kind of monster of wife are you to have done this and still refuse to say 'sorry'".
"I want to get over this hurt and move on, but I can't, because you refuse to even apologize. If I have done this to you and never say even 'sorry', how would you feel?"
The fact is that she may have said some insincere 'sorry' in a half-hearted way, but by you keep sticking to this and demand she say it more often. Hopefully, the subsequent "sorry"s become more sincere and lead her to open up more expressing her guilt, which I am sure built up deep inside her somewhere.
Also, tell her "the kind of casual 'sorry's you gave to me in the past were so insincere that it was just insulting to me. Those were the kind of casual apology to give to someone who you may have stepped on their shoes or brushed shoulder in the street. I don't want that kind of degrading 'sorry'. This is a husband you have hurt like you can't even imagine. I am bleeding inside right now, and you just don't see it. Please give me some kind of sincere apology to help me heal."
Tell her, "you can call me jerk or whatever, but the truth is I am deeply hurt, and there is not a day that goes by I don't think about this affair. I am so hurt and still devastated. And, you don't even offer me a genuine apology. What kind of monster of wife are you to have done this and still refuse to say 'sorry'".
"I want to get over this hurt and move on, but I can't, because you refuse to even apologize. If I have done this to you and never say even 'sorry', how would you feel?"
The fact is that she may have said some insincere 'sorry' in a half-hearted way, but by you keep sticking to this and demand she say it more often. Hopefully, the subsequent "sorry"s become more sincere and lead her to open up more expressing her guilt, which I am sure built up deep inside her somewhere.
I guess being her means never having to say you're sorry.
We went around the same merry-go-round this morning. She called me early, bent up, wanting to "talk". She says she can't understand why I am acting like this, she never had any affair with the man. I responded that by the many impassioned words she herself wrote (and a few I heard) to this guy over an eight month period, it was entirely inappropriate and disrespectful of our marriage and her husband.
Again (and I am venting), this was no momentary Las Vegas lapse of judgment or just getting too friendly with an otherwise nice co-worker. I don't want to be married to a woman who writes repeated love messages to another man. Period.
Of course, when I dig my heels in about this (however calmly) she reverts to the blame shifting about me abandoning her since the separation, me working too hard, me being uncommunicative, etc. She once again suggested that I seek counselling for an obvious deep-seated trauma of some kind. But when I asked her right after whether we could both seek marriage counselling to deal with this issue of the OM, she declined!!!
I am going to go dark again next week. I need to get off the merry-go-round. This is very wearing on me.
I guess being her means never having to say you're sorry.
If your suspicions about her having many strong BPD traits are correct, obtaining an apology won't mean much even if you get it. There is not much difference between being married to a four year old who occasionally apologizes and one who does not. Either way, you're married to a woman with the emotional development of a young child -- and having no interest in seeking professional guidance on learning more mature emotional defenses.
If your suspicions about her having many strong BPD traits are correct, obtaining an apology won't mean much even if you get it. There is not much difference being married to a four year old who occassionally apologizes and one who does not. Either way, you're married to a woman with the emotional development of a young child -- and having no interest in seeking professional guidance on learning more mature emotional defenses.
Until I hit rock bottom I would never apologize and mean it. I now will apologize and say it with total sincerity. I realize when I'm wrong now and will say I'm sorry. Posted via Mobile Device
I really needed a break, so took off for five days to New York, where I have some friends and could just lose myself in the stores and cafés.
I am feeling a little depressed, and lethargic, but not wholly incapacitated. I bought a few bags full of new clothes from some of the good men's stores there, so maybe at least I'll look ok!
I told my wife I was taking off for a break, hoping she'd leave me alone. Silly me. She has been sending me messages berating me for leaving my phone off, that I am cold, that I have always been an awful communicator, I must have a girlfriend, etc.
Once again (and I am venting), it really riles and hurts me that I seem to get no real respect from her. Any normal person who did what she did would at least respect my desire to get some space and sort things out on my own. The expression "chill out" doesn't seem to mean anything to her. (And I understand why, if she is indeed a BPD-er.)
Of course when I file documents, I will have good reason to block her phone forever, but I am not looking forward to the atomic explosion. I just want a month or two of peace, by myself, as I try to rebuild my life.
This is a wholly unfair situation, but I must recognize that I did get myself into it. A few big "red flags" popped up early in our relationship; I chose to ignore them, blinded by the love.
Berilo, thanks for another update of your marital situation. Venting can be a good thing because, even though you intellectually understand her BPDer motivations, your feelings can easily take many months to catch up to that intellectual knowledge -- at which point you will "feel" it to be true at a gut level (a sign of having turned the knowledge into wisdom). What I found most helpful in closing that gap is to talk about the problems to anyone who will listen -- which last a few weeks before their eyes roll back in their heads -- and then writing about it to folks having similar experiences.
B... even though you intellectually understand her BPDer motivations, your feelings can easily take many months to catch up to that intellectual knowledge .
I think that's exactly where I am. My head understands what is probably going on, but my heart still doesn't.
What if for every nutty text message she sends, you simply reply "You are an unremorseful and unfaithful wife" over and over again? It's not like it is going to get through her head but it just might keep your thoughts and feelings from focusing off the reason why you are divorcing her.
What if for every nutty text message she sends, you simply reply "You are an unremorseful and unfaithful wife" over and over again? It's not like it is going to get through her head but it just might keep your thoughts and feelings from focusing off the reason why you are divorcing her.
However, I also agree with your wife. I do think you should get counseling. Most of all just for your own peace of mind and then tell your wife your counselor says she nees counseling too.
Just tell her if she doesn't get counseling there is no point in talking to her and she needs to quit calling you.
4Likes
Re: Distressed 
Until I hit rock bottom I would never apologize and mean it. I now will apologize and say it with total sincerity. I realize when I'm wrong now and will say I'm sorry.
