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post #121 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 12:52 PM
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Re: Distressed

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I should have mentioned that she didn't want me to leave, tried to get me back from the taxi curb. (Not begging, just saying what was I doing, with a threat that I can't come back if I leave.)

So, I thought, let me get this straight: you have just given me (additional) conclusive proof of your affair, you have smashed my cell phone, thrown my laptop out the window, and whacked me over the head with the tv remote. And you think I am going to stay? Why would ANYONE put up with that, if just to get themselves out of the situation for the night (let alone forever)?
I would get "leave just leave!" then when I would she would call me a POS for abandoning his family.

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post #122 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 12:52 PM
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Re: Distressed

Berlioz, be careful. She just might be going to the cops and filing false reports on you. Get yourself some legal help ASAP. Do not see her alone.
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post #123 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 01:15 PM
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Re: Distressed

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I should have mentioned that she didn't want me to leave.
Berilo, that paradox -- of her blaming you for every misfortune but still not wanting you to leave -- is so characteristic of untreated BPDers that the title of the #2 best-selling BPD book is called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." Because her self image is so fragile and unstable, what she desperately needs is to have a strong personality around who will serve as her "emotional anchor" -- i.e., will ground and center her. Hence, don't be surprised when, in a few months, she realizes that her emotional anchor is easily and quickly replaced -- a process made all the easier by her problems with "object constancy" that we discussed earlier. Also, I agree with Shaggy that it would be prudent to have a witness along if you have to be in the same room with her again.
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post #124 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 01:20 PM
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I should have mentioned that she didn't want me to leave, tried to get me back from the taxi curb. (Not begging, just saying what was I doing, with a threat that I can't come back if I leave.)

So, I thought, let me get this straight: you have just given me (additional) conclusive proof of your affair, you have smashed my cell phone, thrown my laptop out the window, and whacked me over the head with the tv remote. And you think I am going to stay? Why would ANYONE put up with that, if just to get themselves out of the situation for the night (let alone forever)?

Again, sounds like me.
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post #125 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 04:47 PM
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B....
Sorry your going through this......

You need to go ASAP to police dept. to file a police report, not to press charges but to document your side if the event before anything else happens or she beats you to the punch with a made up story that places you in the bad light .... Good you have the VAR but hold that bit of info back until you have to share....

She is not well, not far fetch in my eyes in light of what you shared to see her harming herself and tell the police you did it to her.....she is going to want to get the upper hand back.
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post #126 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

She called me last night, asking to come by and pick me up and take me home.

She didn't say she was sorry, she didn't say we had a lot to talk about, she didn't say "marriage isn't easy", or "I don't think I've been as good to you as I should have", or some other reasonable opener to an honest conversation. She just asked if I was ready to tell her who called me Friday night (on my self-call)! I repeated that it was one of my cells to another, and we could get the phone records to prove it. She said she is not interested in documents. (!!!!)

She then asked to come pick me up. I said no thanks.

This is really weird. Is this pathetic effort at attacking me (again) for a non-existant minor transgression her way of deflecting the conversation away from her grotesquely blatant and serious conduct -- or does she really not see the enormous imbalance here?

Once again, it's like the murderer who, when arrested, tells the cop, "you can't arrest me, you've got a parking ticket!". Have these BPD people no moral compass at all?
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post #127 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 11:20 AM
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Re: Distressed

Some of us do.
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post #128 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 11:22 AM
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Re: Distressed

It's her way of keeping you on the defensive so she is still "in control". In her mind what you did (even though it was nothing) justifies what she is doing. She gets to be what she always sees herself as. The wronged one.
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post #129 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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It's her way of keeping you on the defensive so she is still "in control". In her mind what you did (even though it was nothing) justifies what she is doing. She gets to be what she always sees herself as. The wronged one.
That has to be it, because she has displayed almost zero empathy for me. I don't she understands how my heart sank (again) when I saw those love messages on her phone on Friday. Does she think that is nothing? I have never had an affair, but if I did, and my wife found a cache of love messages from me to another woman, I would feel enormously guilty for the hurt I caused her in just seeing them.

An idea that hit me is that maybe this guy IS nothing, and that she's just torquing him up for the attention from him. The love messages to him have been so emotional and over-the-top that maybe he's just the latest victim of her "love-bombing". Of course he is responding to the attention in a very positive way to her.
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post #130 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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Some of us do.
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Sorry, Pidge. I am sure that is the case. I am just desperate here to understand what is happening and why.

B

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post #131 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 12:04 PM
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Re: Distressed

BPD'ers generally have no empathy for others. Classic symptom/sign. I can't begin to say I know for a fact what she is thinking but, I can tell you what I would be thinking.

Her transgression is not a priority if she even feels she did wrong. Your fake phone call on the other hand just proves to her what she probably felt all along. You would fail her in some way. I'm not saying you did at all, just saying that is how she is most likely justifying it all in her mind.

You will most likely never be able to understand what is happening or why. You will drive yourself insane trying though. I am sorry you have had to deal with such a person.

I am not defending her by any means but, you need to realize if she truly is BPD, she had no choice in the matter. No one in there right mind would want to be a BPD'er. There is nothing you could have done that would have ever been right. It is as Joe put it, a no-win situation. Your wife's actions are not because of you or anything you may have or have not done. Her actions are all on her BPD or not.

I truly hope you can find some peace. Be wary though, it will get worse before it gets better. Protect yourself legally and make sure you keep all texts and or emails from her. If you speak to her in person, carry a VAR. She will get nasty and vindictive.

Take care of yourself.
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post #132 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 12:59 PM
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Re: Distressed

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Have these BPD people no moral compass at all?
I agree with Pidge and Joe. My experience is that BPDers, as a group, do not lack good morals. What they lack, instead, is emotional stability. This deficiency results in their frequently experiencing very intense feelings that distort their perception of your intentions. Hence, when a BPDer is splitting you black, she perceives you to be Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

Moreover, for high functioning BPDers, the distorted perception usually occurs only with respect to her loved ones because they pose a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. In contrast, strangers and casual friends pose no threat because there is no close LTR to be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger engulfment. This is why -- as I noted earlier -- a BPDer can be generous and caring all day long to strangers and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her.
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She can stay out to all hours, but if I have to work past 8:00 pm, she gives me heck. She can talk for hours at the dinner table on her cell to friends and colleagues, but if I take an urgent call I had been waiting for, then I am some awful husband.
The use of such double standards -- one set for her and another set of rules for you -- is typical of BPDers. If they are untreated, their emotional development is stuck at about age four, so they are very limited in their ability to protect their fragile egos. They are restricted to using the primitive ego defenses available to a young child. These include denial, projection, double standards, and black-white thinking.

Although most BPDers I've met are very intelligent people, trying to reason with them goes nowhere because it is extremely painful and shameful for them to acknowledge making a mistake. Hence, when you have them in a corner, they usually will not hesitate to try to lie their way out of it. Reasoning does not work because, when they are arguing with you, they "split off" the logical intellectual part of their minds -- putting it out of reach of the conscious part. You therefore are left trying to reason with the emotional, intuitive part of their minds, i.e., with their "inner child."

Certainly, that is what my exW would do. Yet, if I was really upset with her lies and didn't speak to her for days, her abandonment fear grew so strong that she would eventually collapse into a sobbing, shaking state in which she appeared to be disintegrating, breaking down. At that point, she would admit to the lies and reveal the self-loathing she always kept hidden so well. And she would threaten suicide. Because it was so frightening to see her in such a broken state, I only pushed her to that limit a few times in our 15 years together (e.g., when on two occasions she ran up $5,000 in debt on secret credit cards I found out about).
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She has a "nobody controls me" but "I need to control you" type of attitude. Is this a common feature of BPD?
Yes, as Joe explained, a BPDer has a strong desire to control every aspect of her loved one's life. This is due to her great fear of abandonment, her inability to trust anyone, and her great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., realizing that other people have stable personalities and desires that are reasonably constant over time. To augment that control, it is common for BPDers to try to isolate their spouses from the other family members and friends who would be supportive.
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post #133 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 01:49 PM
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Re: Distressed

Stay strong B- and keep your distance in the hope that soon she will see the bottom of the barrel and seek help.
I know with hope comes disappointment, so distance your self and watch.
My thinking is if you stop engaging her she may find a last ditch effort to repair the marriage and with that it will be under your terms and that pro help and meds will be step one for her.

The thing that sucks is, after reading all of the above replies it seems like a long road or a cold day before she will ever take a desprite approach to do things on your term!
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post #134 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-04-2011, 02:08 PM
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Re: Distressed

Pidge will tell you while I don't condone it, it took me completely checking out and going to another woman before she "woke up".
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post #135 of 338 (permalink) Old 09-05-2011, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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If they are untreated, their emotional development is stuck at about age four, so they are very limited in their ability to protect their fragile egos. They are restricted to using the primitive ego defenses available to a young child. These include denial, projection, double standards, and black-white thinking.
You might have added, throwing and breaking things, one of the key weapons in the four year-old's arsenal. I have never met a woman before who got so violent so quickly over something that merited a cold conversation at best or a shouting match at worse. Her reflex to break, throw and hit was scary to watch, to say the least.

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Although most BPDers I've met are very intelligent people, trying to reason with them goes nowhere because it is extremely painful and shameful for them to acknowledge making a mistake. Hence, when you have them in a corner, they usually will not hesitate to try to lie their way out of it. Reasoning does not work because, when they are arguing with you, they "split off" the logical intellectual part of their minds -- putting it out of reach of the conscious part. You therefore are left trying to reason with the emotional, intuitive part of their minds, i.e., with their "inner child."
In fact, I don't think we've ever had a really balanced, enjoyable conversation since we got married. Of course in the almost two years BEFORE we married, this wasn't the case: she was "love-bombing" me, and scored a direct hit every day. I thought I had a soul mate who understood me. Now, apart from not really engaging in my life, she's ever given me a sincere apology for anything since I've known her. Sure, if she spills coffee on me by accident she'd apologize and clean it up, as the obvious social practice. But if she does something wrong that is more subtle or more profound, I get a perfunctory "sorry, it's done", or worse, "what's your problem? what's this long face about?", and not in a caring way.

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Yes, as Joe explained, a BPDer has a strong desire to control every aspect of her loved one's life. This is due to her great fear of abandonment, her inability to trust anyone, and her great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., realizing that other people have stable personalities and desires that are reasonably constant over time. To augment that control, it is common for BPDers to try to isolate their spouses from the other family members and friends who would be supportive.
I just recently realized this dynamic at play here. All of the other women I have had relationships with in the past were wonderful social people. I really liked that, they tended to keep our social life as a couple on track, always planning meetings or dinners or events with family and friends. I didn't care if the events tilted towards her friends, as long as my friends and family were included in our social circle, and respected for their importance to me. Which they always were with these other women.

Now, I notice that my social life has taken a real dive since I met my wife. I find myself making apologies for why we can't accept invitations or can't give a quick answer. And we tend to stay home way too much for a couple without kids and with two incomes.

She has indeed tried to isolate me slowly from friends and family. I only see this now.

My wife is also downright rude and mercurial. An example. About two months ago, an old close business colleague (not a close friend, but a very nice guy with whom I worked closely on a project for two whole years), came to town on a Sunday morning for a business meeting on the Monday. He called to ask if we coud have brunch on the Sunday. My wife said, sure, let's! And, of course, since we're doing some shopping for the house afterwards, if he wants to walk the mall with us, she volunteered that he'd be welcome to come with us. Well, 15 minutes into brunch she decided for some reason she didn't like this guy (no reason I could see), and texted me that she didn't want him to come shopping with us and wanted to finish brunch right away. Could I please ditch him as soon as I can? I was shocked, and didn't ditch my colleague, which really pissed her off. Why would she offer to bring this guy along and then get me to ditch him right away?
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