Distressed - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #1 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Distressed

I am at my witís end and need some help to assess what is going on in my marriage and what I should do about it. My wifeís behavior over the past three or four months has been very strange and erratic. She has a stressful professional job and works 10 hours a day, but she is successful at it, and I have seen no signs of any professional trauma. There are also no obvious other bad things happening in her life that I can see Ė no problems with friends or family.

We have been married for two years. She is 38 and I am 47, first marriage for her and second marriage for me. We donít have any kids. Fortunately, we donít have any major financial or health or family issues to deal with.

We used to get along wonderfully. She was so sweet and thoughtful and supportive. I tried to be the same. We were so into each other. We rarely fought, always made up. We had what I thought was a fulfilling sex life.

Move forward a year, and although I donít think I have changed, she sure has. I donít recognize her any more: she is moody, not so affectionate, and gets angry at me for no apparent reason at all. For example, last week we were installing two new major appliances at home, the tags for which state should be installed by a professional for reasons of safety and warranty. She wanted to get out the tool box and install them ourselves. I said calmly that we should probably not do it ourselves but press the installer a little harder to come back next week. She blew up, calling me all kinds of names like slow and lazy and she hates people who donít take initiative. Clearly she has some bigger issue here because I am anything but slow and lazy and lack initiative Ė but I do prefer to be methodical and do things properly. But this is an example of how I canít seem to do anything right any more.

She says she canít talk to me any more. When I say letís sit down and talk now, or sleep together and talk tomorrow, or go away for the weekend somewhere quiet where we can talk, she dismisses this and tells me I ďdonít know how to talkĒ. She then walks away coldly. I try to tell her that in ďtalkingĒ, we both need to try to understand the other personís perspective, whether we agree with it or not. She is always very judgmental of me and my situation. I donít seem to be able to get a fair hearing.

There has been a double standard going on too for some time: she can come home from work very late without calling, but if I am an hour delayed because of a client call, she gets angry. She talks frequently on the phone during dinner without apology, but if I once a week need to send an urgent e-mail, she gets up from the table in a huff.

I think she is a bit of a control freak. We went away for a weekend to another city and spent much of it with some of her friends there. (They are nice people, so I donít have any problem with that.) But when I want to have my friends over for dinner, she protests about the inconvenience. Itís like I only get one time a month to socialize. (She is very pleasant and charming when we do, but it sometimes seems like an act rather than a desire.)

Last night, she came home late, walked right by me (when I had my outstretched arms open for hug), took a shower and went to bed. She turned her back to me. I gave her a hug and asked what was wrong and she said ďnothingĒ.

Thatís when the light went on in my head. I connected the ugly recent dots. She has been very secretive with her cell phone and computer for the past few months. Two months ago, I observed a few too many calls with a certain male co-worker. When I commented on it, even half-jokingly saying I was a little ďjealousĒ, she warmed up nervously -- and we had great sex that night. I checked the cell phone and there is no record any more of this guy calling, but there are two names of men whose names I hadnít heard before and who call way too much, and out of business hours. I fear these are fake names for the same guy.

Last week, late in the evening, I came out of the bathroom half-way through my shower because I needed the new shampoo I had purchased. I overheard her on the cell-phone, talking in affectionate, hushed tones to someone. I didn't let on I had heard.

We left for work a little late yesterday in her car, and she had her personal cell phone on hands-free. One of the two "names" called (it was displayed on the dashboard) and she hung up twice, without answering. Minutes later, her business cell phone rang, and she pretended that the male caller was a formal business contact, but the info she gave him and the really quick sign-off suggests anything but. She didnít say who it was but turned rapidly so sweet and nice to me (like old days), asking if we should ďgo out for dinner tonightĒ.

I am not a perfect man, but I have been a good and loving husband, and I deserve better than this. Her family and colleagues seem to like me a lot; I certainly do them. I have tried numerous times to get her to talk about ďusĒ and how we can improve our marriage and communication, but itís always about her Ė unless someone is at ďfaultĒ, in which case itís all about me.

I donít have any hard evidence about an affair, so nothing conclusive to confront her with. But my gut is screaming otherwise.

Even without the affair, this pattern of self-centered and controlling behavior is very distressing.

Anyone have any advice?

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post #2 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 10:33 AM
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Re: Distressed

Plant a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car, and get a keylogger for the computer, also there is more snooping software for her cell.

You diserve to know what is going on and privacy is for the bath room, there are no secrets in a marriage so there is nothing wrong with validating your wifes loyalty and respect.

She is cheating and you need to investigate and gather the proof needed to confront her and bring her affair to the light of day were she has no way out but to admit her affair and make the choice to stay married or move on.

With out the proof she will continue to deny and make you look like the bad guy. So quitely investigate her actions so you can have a confrontation that will be effective in dealing with the issue.

With this proof you can also expose the affair to others if she desides to continue in her affair. with out this proof she will rewrite your marriage again making you out to be the bad guy.

There is is alot to this infidelity crap, so start by going stealth and put together a solid game plan for the confrontation, b/c confrontation is one of the biggest steps in dealing with this.

Don't even talk to her about this....they (cheaters) all lie. Go about your day as normal and when she feels you have backed off on your suspicion, she will start to make more mistakes, there by giving you more oppertunity to get the proof you need for a confrontation.

Again with out the proof alls you will get is "we're just friend" or "it was just a joke". Remember you need the undeniable evidence for her to face the reality that she is about to lose her marraige if it continues.

#1 important thing to do is never beg for your marriage, it will only empower your wife and leave you looking weak. Show some confidence that you can move with out her and she will for sure second quess her choices.
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post #3 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 10:37 AM
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Re: Distressed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
My wifeís behavior over the past three or four months has been very strange and erratic.

We have been married for two years. She is 38 and I am 47, first marriage for her and second marriage for me. We donít have any kids. Fortunately, we donít have any major financial or health or family issues to deal with.
I see she married late, at 36 yrs old. You have no kids together and in good financial shape. But you have noticed a sudden change in behavior in the last 4 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
Last night, she came home late, walked right by me (when I had my outstretched arms open for hug), took a shower and went to bed. She turned her back to me. I gave her a hug and asked what was wrong and she said ďnothingĒ.
RED FLAG. Google signs of infidelity, and you will find this is a red flag. Often cheaters who have just come from a sexual tryst with their AP will come home and head straight to the shower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
Thatís when the light went on in my head. I connected the ugly recent dots. She has been very secretive with her cell phone and computer for the past few months. Two months ago, I observed a few too many calls with a certain male co-worker. When I commented on it, even half-jokingly saying I was a little ďjealousĒ, she warmed up nervously -- and we had great sex that night.
THREE RED FLAGS. Too many calls to an unknown number, guarding her cell phone and secret computer use.. She then gave you sex to throw you off the trail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
I checked the cell phone and there is no record any more of this guy calling, but there are two names of men whose names I hadnít heard before and who call way too much, and out of business hours. I fear these are fake names for the same guy.
Because she thinks you suspect, she's now using an affair phone, which she already has a ready made one - her business cell phone. This is where there communications will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
Last week, late in the evening, I came out of the bathroom half-way through my shower because I needed the new shampoo I had purchased. I overheard her on the cell-phone, talking in affectionate, hushed tones to someone. I didn't let on I had heard.
Not unusual, but taken in context with the other red flags, this does become suspicious behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
We left for work a little late yesterday in her car, and she had her personal cell phone on hands-free. One of the two "names" called (it was displayed on the dashboard) and she hung up twice, without answering. Minutes later, her business cell phone rang, and she pretended that the male caller was a formal business contact, but the info she gave him and the really quick sign-off suggests anything but. She didnít say who it was but turned rapidly so sweet and nice to me (like old days), asking if we should ďgo out for dinner tonightĒ.
RED FLAG. Another sign of an affair. Receiving calls, but quickly hanging up when in your presence. Then fakes being nice to you to throw you off the track.

You have unwittingly found the way you are going to catch her. More on that later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
I donít have any hard evidence about an affair, so nothing conclusive to confront her with. But my gut is screaming otherwise.

Even without the affair, this pattern of self-centered and controlling behavior is very distressing.

Anyone have any advice?
  1. Sudden change in behavior that started 4 months ago
  2. Heading straight to the shower upon coming home
  3. Secretive computer usage
  4. Secretive phone usage
  5. Calls to/from a strange number
  6. Quickly hanging up cell phone in your presence

All the red flags point to an affair, most likely not just an EA, but a PA because of the red flag about heading straight to the shower. Since she has a business cell phone, the OM may be a coworker - the most common affair is the workplace affair.

Right now you don't have the evidence to confront. If you confront now, you will be gaslighted, made to think you're just crazy and jealous. Time to gather your evidence. Install computer monitoring software on the computer. This will allow you to obtain her passwords and find out what's going on with the OM, possibly how often they have sex and how long its been going on. Here's some good examples.

Best Computer Monitoring Software 2011 | Reviews, Ratings & More

Since she guards her cell phone and is probably using her work cell phone as the affair phone, you may not be able to install phone monitoring software. Here's some software IF you are able to access her phone:

Mobile Spy - Monitor SMS Text Messages, Call Info and GPS Locations on iPhone, BlackBerry, Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian OS Smartphones. Spy Software for Monitoring your Cell Phone

MobiStealth | Mobile Spy Software, Cell Phone Spy Monitoring, GPS Location Tracking App For $39.99 | iPhone, Blackberry, Android, Symbian/Nokia Spyware

IF you aren't able to access her cell phone or her affair phone, then you will have to try a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). Like I said earlier, you stumbled on the way you are going to catch her. You can get a VAR, and stick it under her drivers seat in her vehicle with industrial strength velcro. If there is one place cheaters feel safe talking to their affair partners, its the vehicle. People in this forum have had good success with VARs. Here's some example of VARs

Philips - Voice Tracer Digital Voice Recorder - LFH061227

Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players

Its a bad sign that she's already cheating so early in the marriage. And she has already exhibited controlling tendencies. You need to find out exactly whats going on before DDay.
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post #4 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 12:05 PM
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Re: Distressed

Get a VAR and stick it in her car.

The signs are there. She may be having an affair.
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post #5 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 12:08 PM
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Re: Distressed

Trust your gut instinct. You KNOW. So, do something about it, actively, as discussed here. And as you're collecting the proof for your confrontation, build two plans -- one for working toward reconciliation, and one for going your separate ways. This way you've already thought through options and plans, and can be prepared for either response you may get from her. You'll also be prepared of you hear deal-breaker things you cannot accept, and be able to follow through methodically while under great duress and emotionally very angry.

Whatever happens upon confrontation -- do not beg or plead with her to stay with you, if that is what you want. You cannot make her stay, you can only offer the opportunity. Remember she will be in a fog, a high of chemical bodily reaction, will re-write your marital history, claim it is your fault, rug sweep, and/or attempt to play it off as nothing ("just friends"). Trust your evidence and your gut over anything that comes out of her mouth. Read all you can about the script, because you will experience some of it, guaranteed. And remember that cheaters lie, and liars will only admit to what they feel they must because they're caught... expect to NOT get the full truth for some time, if ever.

Search your soul for what you will do if it is infinitely worse story than you believe it to be. Know your options, and take care o yourself first & foremost.

Sorry you are here and now in the club we never wanted to belong to. You've got a tough road ahead either way -- good luck & stay strong.
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post #6 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 02:45 PM
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Re: Distressed

I have an issue with keyloggers and VARs.
Suppose they gave you all the juicy details? Would it help?
Does the person using them think that what they already know is not cause for concern?
I simply am unable to see the benefit of going so far as to obtaining additional evidence. If one were to use the VAR to protect himself from a false temporary restraining order, thats another story.
But please please dont fall into the daily quagmire of bludgeoning yourself over further evidence.
It is what you expect it to be. Its a tall hurdle and you need to give yourself permission to walk around it if need be for your own health. Its freaking fly paper, and will stick you to a place you dont want to be.

The "whats next" is what to consider. A plan, once the issue is addressed with her, and what you will do about it all. Where will you go, shore up your finances, cover your bare spots.

It sure is a bad place to be in, and in one way or another we all have been there and are going thru it.
As much as I thought gathering more evidence was the key, i found myself with volumes of information and weeks of sickness about it all during and after, that I had already honestly known in the beginning.

His delay, is not a denial.
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post #7 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 03:07 PM
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Re: Distressed

S-
The thing is getting to the "issue". So many DS deny and minumize the affair, that IMO it's not about details, its about the proof that the WS is behaving inapproprete, and that the LS has enough information to justify their stance in ending the marriage if the affair continues.

Again its not about details, but once enough evidence is revealed that an affair is for sure occuring, then this information can first be used to confront, and if need be used for exposeure.

In addition the information gathered protects the LS spouse from looking like the bad guy from family and friends and inabling the DS to rewrite history.

I believe the right amount of proof/details helps make the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable to continue. It may or may not stop the affair, but it will for sure give the LS and others the knowledge that the one they love is in an unhealthy relationship and also guild others in supprting the marriage. Were as with out the proof some my believe to support the DS b/c the LS is such a bad person that the DS had to leave the marriage.

With proof you can expose the reality the marraige is getting destroyed by an affair, not some made up BS the DS spreads around.
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post #8 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 03:15 PM
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Re: Distressed

Shoo, I think in the case of reconciliation it may be important in some cases to be a helpful measure of rebuilding some trust. It is also useful if the LS is still making assumptions about the extent of the affair. As for divorcing it may also be helpful in jurisdictions that don't fall under a no fault system, or in cases where infidelity may expedite the process in while the DS refuses to sign an affidavit of their adultery. But otherwise I agree with you that knowing the details may definitely hurt the BS' ego even more than necessary.
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post #9 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

Thanks, everyone, for such prompt and thoughtful advice.

I really don't want to engage in espionage, nor do I want to generate pages of transcripts for some future hearing. And I certainly don't want to hear too many hurtful things about my marriage or about myself.

But as was pointed out above, I do want to know the basic truth about what is going on, so I can make some real and critical assessments and decisions. I can't live in this twilight zone for very long; it's hurting enough as it is.

Unfortunately, I have little confidence that my wife has the conscience to "come clean" with my mere triangulation of curious facts, "coincidences", etc. She will almost certainly tell me I am imagining things, I am jealous, I am blowing it out of proportion, etc. And I don't think a general, sincere declaration from me of "I love you, let's work on our marriage" will stop this train.

I will do some closer "observation" over the next week.

As for next steps, I'll start to think of them too, as Plan A and Plan B.
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post #10 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 03:03 AM
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Re: Distressed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berilo View Post
Unfortunately, I have little confidence that my wife has the conscience to "come clean" with my mere triangulation of curious facts, "coincidences", etc. She will almost certainly tell me I am imagining things, I am jealous, I am blowing it out of proportion, etc. And I don't think a general, sincere declaration from me of "I love you, let's work on our marriage" will stop this train.

I will do some closer "observation" over the next week.

As for next steps, I'll start to think of them too, as Plan A and Plan B.
If that's the case, then all you're going to get are denials and gaslighting. Your observation isn't going to amount to much unless you do some real investigating as I outlined above. She's already taken the affair underground. But that's up to you if you're too afraid to know the full truth. Oh, and Plan A hardly ever works. All it does is continue to validate their feelings and their affair and make you appear weak. See if you can find many stories here that shows if Plan A works.

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post #11 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

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Your observation isn't going to amount to much unless you do some real investigating as I outlined above.
I didn't say I wasn't going to investigate. Stay tuned.
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post #12 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 07:42 AM
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Re: Distressed

I'll add to two very important things to look at. Check cell phone records and lok for repeating numbers. If you can get her phone long enough, download a copy of the address or contacts list. If she has an Iphone - google reading deleted texts iphone and textpad. Just remember the last backup sync is written over everytime the phone is synced so read the backup first then sync.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - whatever you find or however you find it DO NOT REVEAL EXACTLY WHAT YOU KNOW AND HOW YOU FOUND IT!!! If you do, she will block all of your access and shut down those methods. Check email accounts and facebook etc if you have access or do it after you get the passwords from a keylogger. I know yuo don't start keeping records, but remember as soon as you confront her, everything you see will disappear. Even though you probably can't use it in court if it gets ugly, her not knowing whether you ahve anything or not will make her more likely to be reasonable no matter which way it goes. You may also need to notify his spouse in wich case SOME proof prevents him from covering his tracks. It can also be helpful if your wife decides to reconcile (R) and this guy refuses to give up. You are now holding some significant cards to both protect her and shut him down. Think ahead my good man. You are not going into a war with your wife but you may be with him!

Last but not least, she may have other email accounts your not aware of and a pay as you go phone from a big box that you won't know about. You may want to check credit card statements for hotels and other purchases that don't make sense. Oneof the members here even had her husband give a loan to the other woman (OW or OM).

Protect yourself. Tehre is no doubt in anyones mind here she is in an affair. All of her behavior and actions say she is.

Keep us posted. Were here for you whether you decide to move on without her or reconcile. Follow your gut, not your heart.
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post #13 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 07:48 AM
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Re: Distressed

Last but not least - I agree with Shooboomafoo on one thing. Do not delve into ALL the gory details when you confront. They create triggers and mental movies that make it harder to get through the trauma. You MUST be calm and contain your anager and what you say when you confront and for all the future if you hope to reconcile and not have it be even more difficult. She WILL lie to you and let out the truth slowly (trickle truth). She WILL give reasons for it as being your fault and the problems in the marriage until she can face herself and what she has done which takes a long time. If you feel yourself getting angry, take a time out for yourself before you run your mouth. ALWAYS - engage brain before mouth.
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post #14 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Distressed

Thanks, 8yc. I will try to keep focused on what is important and do things in a measured way. It won't be easy, but I understand what you are saying.

It doesn't necessarily matter to the path forward, but I am utterly shocked by two things in her behavior:

1. How she can find such fault with me and our marriage. From my perspective, nothing had changed much since we met four years ago and got married two years ago. Sure, the "honeymoon" phase of the relationship faded as it always does, but I thought we were replacing that with a deeper, more profound love of living a happy life together. (Wrong!) I think I have been a good husband, tried to be attentive to her needs, always available to help and listen. Certainly we haven't suffered any marital trauma or turbulence before. How can she find -- and express -- such fault with me so suddenly? Am I not the same person she married? What's that all about?

From the fragments of emails and messages I have now seen, she is complaining to this guy about me, my real and supposed shortcomings, why she isn't happy. Naturally, that just emboldens them to spend more time together and get in league against me, "the bad guy". (As a semi-objective reading, this is just a conspiracy of the two of them -- her family and friends I know have been nothing but warm and friendly to me to date.) Surely she must realize that she is feeding a monster if she dishes on me in front of him.

If someone wakes up one day and decides s/he married the wrong person, isn't the decent and honorable thing to do to show some remorse, and make it less hard for the other person? I really would prefer to hear something like, "You are a great guy and I know you tried to be a good husband. I am sorry, but for whatever reason, this isn't working for me -- I need space and want to be single again. I hope you find someone who can commit more than I can. I feel awful about this and will try to make it as easy as possible on us." I wouldn't like that, of course, but it would be clear, show some responsibility and basic feeling, and respect for the person being let down. What she is doing is piling disrespect onto irresponsibility. I married this woman?

2. I shake my head at the amateurish, adolescent nature of this affair. Does she really think I won't notice her inattentive demeanor, frequent passive-aggressive conduct and furtive behavior? It's become screamingly obvious. It's almost like I don't exist, my needs/concerns don't matter a damn, while she's on some emotional trip that I am supposed to pay for but not participate in? She doesn't see how awfully transparent this is. What's that all about? Can't she even be smart about how she has an affair or manages the break-up, or whatever she's doing? Is she trying to provoke me? (I haven't bit, yet anyway.)

I have never been in this situation before and it is really sad and troubling. I know I might never get answers to these nagging questions, but I would like to try to understand what is going on so I can get my bearings and do the right thing, whatever that might be. Certainly I have to prepare myself for the realization that my marriage -- which I thought was so happy three months ago -- might be over.
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post #15 of 338 (permalink) Old 08-03-2011, 10:06 AM
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Re: Distressed

As you read more about how affairs happen and the dynamics of affairs, you will see that they follow a certain pattern.

It's a myth that affairs only happen in problematic marriages. Many times it's that the wayward spouse starts an innocent friendship that gradually crosses marital boundaries into the affair, the so-called slippery slope. It was nothing you did.

Another aspect is that the wayward spouse (her) begins to re-write the marital history in her head and she and her affair partner demonize you. This is so she can justify the affair to herself. They almost all do this.

Again, you could be the most perfect husband in the world, but if she is in the affair, she will literally invent things and see her marriage as terrible, just so she can justify her cheating in her mind.

The adolescent behavior you speak of is called being in the FOG of the affair. A very similar situation when teenagers fall head over heals in love with someone. This state of mind is fed by the secretive nature of the affair. That it's taboo. They get off on the thrill of sneaking around and deceiving you and others. While in the fog, they experience the endorphins secreted in the brain, and the rush. It's quite addictive, and because of this, they very rarely stop an affair on their own.
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