the guy

Pack up, you can always move back after she take a polygrph test clearing her of any PA.

Guilty until proven inicent.

Shamwow

Dan, I truly appreciate this sentiment, and would LOVE to be able to employ this course of action, but that would've had to have been two months ago. And I wouldn't touch her with my ten-foot pole right now (sic).

She needs Alpha...I'll give it to her, but not in any way that gratifies her for her recent behavior. Just in the way that shows I don't need her and she should've been lucky to have me, not the other way around.

Anubis

Shamwow,
Yes, by all means, stick to your plans. 8years can't seem to look past his own situation when looking at yours.

Let me offer up mine as a counterpoint lens:

I am a man who DIDN'T Stick to his guns, and backed down from standing up to my ex- (who shares some traits with your wife). The exact story is too long for a post now, but as I said earlier, my failure to act, quickly and decisively, was and is MY GREATEST REGRET.

You just said "I really believe I have to trust my gut and make some s**t happen NOW or I will be kicking myself for years to come." - You are my hero man! Stick to this and you are being the guy I wish I was. And that is coming from a man, whom if you met in other circumstances, you'd likely be very impressed with.

When things exploded in my marriage, my now ex-wife used whatever holes she could find in my armor and resolve and exploited them as much as possible. She attacked me relentlessly, wanting to know what I knew (so she could damage control and trickle truth). She pushed every button of mine she could in an effort to disrupt me and regain and maintain control over me. She would constant tell me that whatever I though I knew was wrong, that my memory was faulty, and that there was an 'innocent' explanation for everything I had caught her in or found evidence for. She would go from ice queen to pouncing on me and dragging me to the bedroom in an instant when she thought that would help her position.

Odd are that your wife will do something similar - she will use her knowledge of you, push your buttons, and use any means she can to defuse you and regain control of the situation (while still not respecting you a bit). Moving all your stuff to safety, and clearing out for a while a smart plan - you are minimizing the window of opportunity she will have to try an exert control over you thru.

I too, consider myself a "nice guy", so in my mind I told myself that I should give our marriage "every possible chance" and keep trying. It turns out that's a bunch of bulllc**p. It hurt me to keep on giving in to her. If someone has no respect for you, and is getting a free ride from you, they WILL exploit the situation for as much personal gain as you will let them, and they'll tell you whatever lies they think will keep the gravy train running.

Remember what your wife said to you years ago? About the guy not having any idea when she was planning her exit strategy? My ex-said something like that to me the first year we were married, too. I mentioned it to her years later, and a few other times after that, and she denied ever saying that each time. When I insisted she did, she would attack me until I relented and told her she must be right.

*whew*

Entropy3000

I totally agree. He may indeed decide on reconsiling down the road. This in my opinion is the most direct route to get there as strange as that may seem.

Shamwow

Anubis, wow...sounds like you married a woman very much like my wife. While there are plenty of rosy memories (as is pretty much the foundation of why any of us marry someone), my wife has always been quick to button-pushing in pressure situations. When I confronted her the night before she left a week ago, she was calm and emotionless and calculated in her responses (as I too was doing...must've looked pretty odd, two people talking some serious s**t with no apparent emotion), countering mine before I even had a chance to finish my sentence. My "planned dialogue" was turned around at each point with something that would diffuse the severity of what I was pointing out. Which would leave me saying, "Okay...but what about...", which would lead her to the next counterpoint. If she said something hurtful, she let er rip as if it didn't matter, and I was wrong for questioning her (holy s**t, that's what an Alpha does...*facepalm*). I think I stood my ground well, considering I had prepared well for the talk, but I left feeling like my points were invalidated before I had a chance to nail them down.

Funny thing is I'm much better at "winning" a debate than she is. But logic does not prevail with her. I can go round and round for hours and make my point perfectly 20 times, but still end up being confused as to whether or not I got the point across. But when the pressure's on she's willing to let loose with whatever will either hurt the other person the most and shut them up, or whatever will confuse their argument and make them question why they're talking to her. (she used to apologize the next day and say she was wrong if she was though) Don't see this side of her often, but it's always been there to some degree. See it a lot more lately since I've been consciously standing up to this recent bs.

I'm guessing since she knew she was covering things up, she had some stories in place to whip out as the need arose.

Which is why I need to drop the big one and show her I couldn't care less about walking, and see if that puts her off guard. If it doesn't, so be it. Why fight for that? If it does and the ball is in my court again...must leave anyway and let her decide what she cares about.

Entropy3000

8,

I think we both want the best for him. So I will tone down my rhetoric. I confess I feel for his situation. It is compelling. He can certainly move ahead with his plans to divorce right now. She needs a wakeup call. He can back off if he so decides.

Notice I have not made comments about using scorched earth with her. There is no point. She is hurting herself. As hurtful as she has been he can take the high road now. Somewhere buried deep inside her, is the woman he once loved. She has run her husband off. Her loss. He does not need to be hateful. There is no need. Now he owes the OM no quarter. But he can deal with him later if he so chooses. Now is not the time for that.

I think we all agree he needs to work on himself. I would actually be thrilled for him if he could get her to turn it all around. She needs that reality jolt in my opinion.

Oh well lets see how this plays out.

Her actions are so hard to believe. Yet having been in an EA myself I know that ones head just is not right. My wife had to snap me back to reality, so at the very least this is tough love. She seems on a self destructive path IMHO. I don't think he fixes this with hugs right now. She needs the proverbial two by four. That worked for my wife with me. I hope it does for her as well.

This stuff really tears me up.

Anubis

That's because to her it's not about finding truth, or being logical. My ex- suffered from what I called "good girl" syndrome. If something could make her look bad or guilty no matter how true it was, it didn't matter and she couldn't allow for it to exist. She would come up with crazy explanations or cover stories and batter me verbally until I gave in. That extended to her never being the one to blame for her affairs (how many she had, I actually don't know, but I know of several). That girl had her own warped reality, and would move heaven and earth to make everyone around her acknowledge it as correct, no matter how many laws of physics it violated.

BenDEBONAIR

Don't you just love it when a person realises their worth?
+1 Mr. Shamwow, +1

Anubis

Shamwow,

Some advice from my own past experiences.

You need to protect yourself for her her return, as she could do some very unexpected things, like trashing your property.

Get everything that you can't deal with losing out of the house tomorrow. Personal momentos, photographs, records, hand me downs and what-nots. And all your records and important papers. All of them go either with you, or to your new storage unit.

If your car is small, go rent a small truck for the day from U-haul. It's VERY cheap. Get yourself a dolly or two, and you can move filing cabinets, etc, very easily.

You probably want to get a video recorder of some sort, and do a detailed walk-through of your house (and garage, and yard) both before, and after your move your stuff out. Perhaps even a video inventory of what you took would be useful. Take video of what you leave behind, including all of her things. The purpose is two-fold. To document the condition of everything in case she goes nuts and damages and destroys things. (This happens WAAAY more often than you would think). The other is to document that you DID NOT take any of her things, nor did you damage or destroy them, in the event she falsely claims you did.

Finally, take the time to go though her things in the house very carefully to see if she has taken anything of yours. My ex- wife had swiped all of my High School year books and stashed them with a bunch of her personal files (WTF?) I swiped them back, along with the 1876 silver dollar from my great grandfather that she got sticky-fingered about. You might also turn up some interesting "evidence" that you want to document, in anticipation of the divorce negotiations.

Your constant posts and updates have kept us glued to our laptops (lord knows there wasn't much on TV this weekend..), but I expect you to be away from the keyboard and very, very busy tomorrow. See your lawyer. Get a U-haul. and Pack. You can pack up a truck in the evening and overnight, delivering the last load Tuesday morning, before heading out to your friends for a well-needed getaway.

Protect yourself, and minimize your exposure to all the c**p she is likely to throw your way.

Shamwow

Thanks Anubis. Have started packing up my office, software, etc, tonight.

This is very hard...

Stonewall

8years,

This is a civil case not a criminal case. It should be decided by a preponderance of the evidence which he clearly has; proof beyond a shadow of a doubt is not necessary.

morituri

Change usually is.

__________________
"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." Robert A. Heinlein

Links

PHTlump

You weren't on the OJ or Casey Anthony juries, were you? Criminal cases are decided on circumstantial evidence every day. And they should be. It shouldn't take video or DNA for Shamwow to conclude that his wife is in a PA. The evidence is pretty damn overwhelming. To the point that there can be no reasonable doubt that she is cheating.

PHTlump

I disagree. A cheating wife does not deserve any warning regarding her husband's plans. SW and his wife have had a long-standing agreement that infidelity means divorce. He reiterated that before she left. And she did it anyway.

Perhaps you think that a betrayed spouse is required to say, "I know you are cheating and this is how I know, so I'm going to give you some more chances to stop or else I will do X, Y, and Z." And I agree that that would be more effective at stopping the affair than vague threats. But, this is a marriage without children where the OP has said that a PA would be a deal breaker. Well, the deal has been broken. So what would be the point of saying, "I know you've cheated for the past week, but I would like you not to cheat this weekend, too."?

The divorce train has left the station with SW aboard. He is under no obligation to inform his STBX about his whereabouts or state of mind.

Halien

Some have great tolerance, which is to be admired, in my opinion. On the other hand, single acts, weighed like a jury, are not what I would make a decision on. The point is would not be whether she had an affair for me. Its the intentional black out of communication, lack of concern for my feelings, and being willing to say that if we aren't much fun, she'll just go have fun alone. Plus, you have financial infidelity at a time when the house is under water. That spells betrayal of the marriage. Personally, I just wouldn't be hung up on whether I had enough proof of an affair. You have a long period of marriage betrayal, which many people have little tolerance for. She's following a personal agenda in her life, and the husband is just the back up bank of money.