Entropy3000

I have come to a place that has helped me out on these situations.

I have defined for myself that inapproprite behavior like this is inherently unfaithful. I think cheating is being unfaithful but in a more specific way. An EA that has begun from an inapropriate friendship and a PA are cheating. A friendship may be crossing boundaries and have unfaithful behavior that becomes an EA.

Unfaithful behavior is behvaior that is literally not fauthful their spouse:

Having secrets from your spouse is unfaithful.

Going to an opposite sex friends house is unfaithful under most circumstances.

Crossing agreed upon boundaries is unfaithful

Anything that works at odds with your spouse best interests and / or the marriage I would say is not being faithfull.

Unfaithful behavior often leads to cheating. But you do not have to have penetration to be unfaithful to a spouse.

Lying is unfaithful.

Having inapropriate contact with someone is unfaithful.

So how does this help me? We usually do not need to find that smoking gun, that proof of cheating to identify behavior as unfaithful.

I see too often people wondering if there is a problem. Then they describe a plethora of activities that are arguably unfaithful and then they ask are they cheating. Well maybe. BUT we know they are being unfaithful. Being unfaithful is enough to lose trust in someone IMO.

For me if my wife went to another man's house in this manner it would be a deal breaker. Is it likely there was cheating in your case? Sure. But I don't think you have to prove that. Her actions were unfaithful. She crossed a serious boundary or three.

The not deleting his account on facebook is a symptom but the bigger deal is that she put herself in a compromising position. She went there in secret ... right?

She is leaving the house and rather than telling you, hey I am going over this guys house, see ya or you going hey hon where are you off to, she just goes.

I in no way think it controlling for spouses to let the other know what they are doing. Now more wife might be out all day shopping and going from place to place. Cool. I don't need to know those specifics. But you what, she will usually give me a call and let me know her plans matter of factly. I do the same for her. Nothing at all to do with trust. But it does promote trust.

If my wife said she was going over a guys house, I just might say, hold up, I'm coming along.

Boundaries. Agreed upon boundaries are a must who are serious about being married.

Entropy3000

Entropy3000

No.

Old lovers / flames are a no no in a serious relationship. Too risky. Ex lovers can pickup where they left off in a heartbeat.

I'll take this further, for some couples not having close opposite sex friends is a boundary.
It was not for me years ago. I found out it needed to be the hard way.

Lets be blunt here. The way you bed a married woman is to first become her friend. Then you start meeting some of her needs and start causing problems in her marriage. And so on.
Not just friends.

jnj express

Your wife has been to this guy's house twice late at nite, and you are focusing on facebook contact----you need to get real here

What do you think she was doing, taking him some soup, cuz maybe he was feeling a little under the weather, or maybe she was out jogging, and his house was on her route, or lets get even more way out there---she went over to play scrabble----WAKE UP---YOU GOT A MAJOR PROBLEM

You are not bothered by the late nite visits---1st off what did she say were the circumstances---you shouldn't believe anything she says---but at least delve into her story, and push for some answers.

You need to find out if she had unprotected sex, if so---you both need testing

If she refuses to tell you what went on with those 2 late night visits, then make her take a poly

Also you better start doing some tracking, cuz she probably has been with him, a lot more than those 2 visits

Robmeofmysecurity

Well, we had a huge fight and she claims nothing happened and it's nothing but still won't delete him. She says she loves me and wants to be with me but she said i treated her like **** for so long and I should be punished like she was. I am pretty sure she hasn't talked to him for two months because the last message I found was from June 8. I know I took her for granted and was combative. I have to accept that I wasn't a great husband or even good at times. I don't think I should end our marriage over this because there is a good chance she didn't have sex. I know they talked for three weeks because I found all old emails and texts. I have a 3 year old to think about too. Any thoughts?

sigma1299

If you agree that you need to some things to improve your end of the marriage I would recommend that you both call it a draw and put down your weapons. Then proceed to marriage counseling. I think you need to give her real commitment to change your end and I think she needs to delete that dude and give up the idea of punishing you to move forward.

Basically if you think you need to and can improve and your comfortable she has maintained no contact for a while you both need to forgive and forget the past and start over. BUT she does need to delete that guy as a sign of respect for you and your marriage.

8yearscheating

Focus on you and what she says you are doing to treat her like ****. She has sent up a flare - take heed. Get the love busters and emotional needs questionaires from the marriagebuilders.com website and both of you feel them out. Then sit down and ask questions of one another. Youa re NOT permitted to question or argue what the other wrote because it is their feelings. You are only allowed to try and understand WHY they feel way and HOW you can change your behavior to resolve that issue. Understand that one OH sh!t or love buster erases 20 atta boys. You both have to focus on what it takes to make each other happy and repair the marriage, not continue down the path of circling your own wagons, protecting yourself and making the other person feel like they and their feelings don't matter. Practice active listening - that is listening and not trying to fix or solve unless you are asked for help. We men always try to fix things and offer advice. Our wive want to know they are heard and listened to not helped. SO try listening and reflecting or parroting back what she says. If she says I fell like the boss at work is not understanding what I need. Respond back with, I understand you don't think your boss undestands your needs, why is that? Try to get to expand what she is saying and understand it. NEVER say "well you should tell him... or you shouldn't let him get away with that". Let her talk out and try to understand her - not fix or help unless she specifically says what would you do. WHat she did was wrong and she should understand she cheated even if it was only talk because she shared a part of herself that should only be for you. That boundary must never be crossed again and she should commit to that. If a marriage is based on fear and getting back at each other, it will NEVER last.

8yearscheating

Oh and I agree, MC is a must with this meeting of another a topic of discussion.

chapparal

She knows your watching her. She may already be hiding communication, deleting texts email etc. Hope that's not the case. Otherwise why should she even care about seeing him on facebook.

the guy

Can she clarify punishment?
Please!!!
I really want to know

Entropy3000

Polygraph

AND she never acts unfaithful again like this. Whether she had sex with him or not going to his place late at night is unfaithful to you. A faithful wife does not do this. I never suggest a polygraph but in your case it makes sense.

Amongst other issues this is a boundary problem. I suggest doing His Needs Her Needs and working through the boundaries. You need to agree on boundaries. Even without a defined boundary a married woman does not act this way if she is faithful.

the guy

I'm all for fixing a marriage, but words like punishment are being used she is heading in the wrong direction of *love* she is indifferent.

That sucks she's mad at you for calling her out. She not mad at you she's mad b/c she can't see OM any more!


Man up and quit fighting, show a confident man that does not fight, but when she settles down and want to discuss this crap at a normal level then the both of you can talk.

Why in the hell did you engage her? DO NOT GO DOWN THIS ROAD.
THIS IS THE OLD YOU COMING OUT AGAIN. WTF!!!!!!!! Look at me yelling....sorry

If you want to fight this infidelity crap then read up, do your research and make a plan.

8yearscheating

Here Guy - a double gentlemans jack on ice!

8yearscheating

Heed Guys advice.

Simon Phoenix

Oh man. This is a classic case of lost lovers.

Let me get this straight. An old flame of hers reconnect on FB. They are communicating with each other, even after you find out. You tell her how you feel about the situation, only for her to ignore you and continue talking with him. Then she decides to go to his place LATE AT NIGHT not once but twice. Yet she tells you that nothing happened and you are the one being paranoid.

My man, don't get played for a fool. She slept with him, plain and simple. A woman showing up at another guy's house late at night, especially the home of a former flame has booty call written all over it. That is one polygraph test I'd love to see her pass. Was there any other reason she could give for going over there not once but twice, other than wanting a repeat performance?

Safe to say that this absolutely, positively UNACCEPTABLE. If you don't want to share her with another dude, I'd strongly suggest setting some boundaries and sticking to them. If she tells you to kick sand, have her served with the papers.

Take it from someone whose WW did the exact same thing almost to the letter. She will not stop until you put your foot down like a man. Or you can buy the goods she's selling and watch her run over you like Earl Campbell. Your choice...
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