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Am I Crazy? Or is this the Smoking Gun?

79K views 140 replies 53 participants last post by  turnera 
#1 ·
Married for nearly 14 years. The last year has been absolute Hell. When my wife's brother died unexpectedly she changed a great deal. She pulled away from me. She detached. She routinely lies now about where she's been, who she's been with, what she's been doing. I know this because I've caught her in some real whoppers.

She never acted like this before. I truly believed we were happy as a couple. I know I was. Key word: was. The past year has been horrific. When I joined this forum last night, I read a few posts from people who did some checking on their wives (I guess you could call it snooping). In some cases they found the "smoking gun." In other cases, they weren't sure. I'm in the second category. I'm not sure.

My wife was once my very best friend. We confided in each other about everything. We traded notes 20 or 30 times a day. Now? I don't hear from her at all. She's just stopped all communication with me.

I found this email thread between her and a gentleman I know. There were several of them to be honest. They were not in her email inbox. They were not in the trash section, which she routinely cleans (deletes). Nope. She forgot to clean out one other section of her email: the "sent" file. This is where I found them -- the exchanges. They will email each other 10-12 times in the space of four hours.

Now -- what you're about to see is just one of these exchanges. The names and places have been covered up to protect the innocent. TAM moderators? I need your help. I've never been through anything like this before. You, on the other hand, have seen a lot of this. What's the deal?

(9)
People
The Male
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 7:14 AM
Think this is a job I could stomach?

https://www.employment.ucdavis.edu/applicants/jsp/shared/position/PrinterFriendlyJobDetails_css.jsp

Sent from my iPad
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My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 9:08 AM
The link won't open. In (a city) today. You aren't serious about leaving (your place of employment) though unless they invite you to leave, right?

Sent from my iPhone
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The Male
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 11:02 AM
Seriously looking, yes. I need an intermediate step out of state worker coverage so that my options are more open. Ina position where I need more than a hobby job (I.e. Pension, even if measely)

Sent from my iPhone
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My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 11:58 AM
This seems really rash, but I'm a little in the dark and don't want to be unsupportive. still can't open the damn link. Take a few breaths though.

Sent from my iPhone
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The Male
To:
My Wife

You are right. I need to calm down. Good advice. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 9, 2016, at 11:58 AM,

Feb 9 at 12:07 PM
My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 12:23 PM
Don't give into the Latin drama queen, she said from the Cuban restaurant

Sent from my iPhone
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The Male
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 1:05 PM
No. Sound advice. I will disclose more later, but as you prolly realize, personal life is turned inside out. Has me reevaluating a lot of things, including my job and how it feeds my insatiable ego. Plus, I have zero security if I wind up going forward alone. I like what I do, but it may be a job I can no longer afford.

Having said that, I'm not in a good place to decide **** right now. So I need to sit tight, calm down and wait.

Sent from my iPhone
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My Wife
To
The Male

Feb 9 at 1:54 PM
Don't be so hard on yourself. Whatever; whenever, I'm here.

Sent from my iPhone
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The Male
To
My Wife

Feb 9 at 1:59 PM
I know. Thanks

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#2 ·
I don't see a smoking gun in the email exchange. But the fact that she is freezing you out and appearing to concentrate on the Other Man is not good. She could just be advising him on his career path, however, lots of Emotional Affairs can start that way. A traumatic event, especially the death of a family member, can cause a sudden change in behavior.

Plus, if she is attempting to hide the communication with him from you, then she knows it is inappropriate for a married woman.

You have ample reason to keep investigating. Get a couple of VARs put one in her car. And one in the area of your home where she goes alone and takes her phone.
 
#3 ·
Bill, Your wife might be involved in an emotional affair with the other man. People often change after a significant death and start re-evaluating their life. If there is a void - either emotional or physical - they seek to fill it outside the marriage.

Does she work with the other man? Is he married? How do you know him and how long as your wife known him?

I read your other post and looks like classic EA.

You are not crazy.
 
#4 ·
The male is a reporter. My wife is an Information Officer. So, yes, they deal with each other professionally. Even I have to deal with this guy from time to time in my course of work.

What gets me is the number of exchanges between the two. This wasn't the only one. There are probably ten that I've discovered so far -- and each exchange is 10-12 messages each.

Again, there's no smoking gun except that his personal life is a wreck, which can be caused by infidelity. And the one line that she wrote back to him which concerns me a great deal: "Whatever, whenever, I'm there."

I keep going back to that line. It gets me. It really strikes at the gut. If she's seeing this guy, it would explain a lot of her behavior in the past year.

This is my second marriage. I met my second wife in the process of pulling away from my first one. She wasn't the cause of the problems in my first marriage, but she certainly accelerated the breakup.

And I know, from experience, that once you step out on a spouse and do the deed, it's over. The love dies. You can't get it back. You don't want it back. You're ready to move on.

So, yeah, I know what this could mean. If it means that.
 
#12 ·
Honestly? What do I want? I want my wife back.

But, if my suspicions are correct and she's stepped out on me, I realize that is never going to happen. I'm old enough to know this isn't some Disney movie with a happy ending.

Where does one purchase a VAR? She doesn't run off and have conversations in a private room. But her car is a different story.

I want evidence that this happening or not happening. If it is happening, then I need to take steps to look out for number one.

Thanks for your advice everyone. I do appreciate it.
 
#11 ·
I have learned from my many years of military experience that some problems require you to meet then head on. I suggest you sit down with your wife, look her in the eye and ask, " Do you still love me? Are you still IN love with me? Are you happy with me?" If you get a "yes" to these questions then you need to tell her how you feel about the last year. If you get a "no" then the next question should be, "Is there someone else?" A man and a woman can't fix something in their relationship unless they TALK to each other and be honest in their feelings.
 
#14 ·
Did that. I've been seeing a marriage counselor for about the past six months. She wanted me to bring my wife for one of the sessions and I did just that. The counselor put it to her straight: Do you want this marriage to continue? Are you willing to make it work? Her answer was yes to both.

But -- I don't put a lot of stock in that. I also said the same thing to a marriage counselor when I was with my first wife. I told him the same thing that my wife said. Only later, after my wife had left the room, did I tell him the truth. The answer was "no" because there was someone else in the picture. That someone else is my current wife.

Perhaps this is just karma coming back to bite me in the keester. I put someone else through Hell. Karma has a way of paying you back, in spades.
 
#16 ·
this isn't a "smoking gun"....rather its a gun that just hasn't been discharged yet.

red flag #1.....there is distance and loss of intimacy in your relationship

red flag #2.....you are unable to communicate feelings, either of you, empathetically...and if you did, they would fall on deaf ears.

red flag #3......she is opening up, sharing inappropriate and often one sided personal details of your marriage and her personal life. this is the BIGGEST red flag.

what you have here is the plain old text book definition of an emotional affair. she may not be shagging him, but you can't rule that out. if it hasn't happened yet...it will soon.

you are in a tough spot because if you call her out for what you know....she will lie, minimize, deflect, make you feel crazy and its all YOUR fault.

That in itself is your answer to how deep your marriage troubles go.

some here would say wait, gather more intel, catch her red handed. and to a certain extent I agree. another strategy would be to print these emails out, sit here down, tell her this behavior is unfaithful to the marriage, and its OVER.

if she does anything other than begging you for forgiveness, coming 100% clean with the truth and doing anything other than what you ask for reassurance (passwords to phone and PC, no contact letter to said person, change jobs) then its a total loss anway and bding your time to just catch her in more damning behavior is just a waste of effort and your time.

good luck. sorry you are here.
 
#20 ·
Fair question. The answer is no. I tried, she wouldn't let me get near her until the first wife as long gone. That relationship was pretty screwed up to begin with (the first marriage). I was young and stupid and broke two Cardinal rules.

1. Don't make any life-changing decisions after a family member dies
2. Don't marry any woman (or man) that relies upon daily medication to keep them sane and in check.

In my case, I was so broken up when my mom died, I reached out to my first wife. I was 27. Mom was the last connection I had with any type of home. My father died when I was just a child. I knew, deep down, that I should not have married her, but she offered warmth, happiness and a home that I could be a part of. I really didn't think much about the medication part, nor how she had been hospitalized twice for Schizophrenia. She was fine. But I didn't know that in California, you can quit that medication at any time. Nobody can force a mentally unstable person to continue to take their daily pill. If they decide to stop, oh well, you're up bat**** creek without a damn paddle. I wasn't made aware of this until AFTER she quit taking her meds, which was three years after we tied the knot. Suddenly, the woman I loved vanished and was replaced by a raving lunatic that scared the crap out of me. This is no joke. When I found that butcher knife she was keeping underneath the bed, I don't think I ever stayed another night with her. That and the waking up in the dead of night screaming that there was a snake in the bed or someone was in the house (there wasn't) -- was enough to drive me out.

It was at that point when my current wife walked into my life. My marriage was disintegrating and she offered a path I could follow out. But the sex would wait and wait and wait until the divorce papers were filed. The ex-wife and I hadn't seen each other for six months. Is it still cheating? Technically, I suppose. But it's not quite what you might think.

There are no other email chains that I've discovered that are as damming as the one I first pasted. The best I can tell is that these email chains with this other guy started last October. There are about 10-12 total, each with about six or seven responses between the two. To be dang honest, most of it is work related. They do not work together. They do not work for the same company. The wife is an Information Officer. Her email buddy is a reporter. By the way, both of us are former reporters. This is what former reporters do when they get old -- they become Information Officers for companies, school districts, government, etc.

I have never seen a brother and sister who were as close as my wife and her brother. They had something really special going on there. She supported her brother without question, her brother returned the favor. She did not like her brother's wife -- and still doesn't. In response, after the brother died, his wife cut off all communication with her brother's children, which are my wife's God children. So -- my wife not only lost her brother last March. She also lost all contact with her God children. Add to that the untimely death of her parents, and I really do think she just went off the edge. That's what the counselor thinks. But I also think she's pulling away. She also lost a bunch of weight and adopted a yoga routine two months ago. My wife is 46 and looks like she's 36. She's a former TV reporter. I'm not going to lie to you. She's eye-candy. You don't become a TV reporter if you're not eye candy.

So -- that's where it stands. She actually came out and did a little gardening today, which was nice. We loved to garden together. Absolutely loved it. But she's slowly pulled away from that activity as well. She spends a lot of time now with a new friend she made after her brother passed. They are similar in age and experience. The friend is married, but to a man who is 30 years her senior. They are vino partners. They are Yoga partners. I don't interfere, but I know this new friend has far too much influence over her. If she were to tell her to jump off a cliff, she just might. But -- so far nothing like this has happened. They do spend a great amount of time together though.
 
#24 ·
You are best to be the aggressor here, regardless of what you want. To me the biggest red flag was "if I go my own way" which I assume referred to your relationship. She'll lining up a new job to have financial security to dump you, is my read on it.

If you wait for things to unfold you will have no hand. If you assert yourself now and detach yourself, you may shake her into coming around.
 
#25 ·
Bill, you did cheat on your first wife.

So, you are sort of expecting your second wife to be a cheater, because you were one yourself.

There is no smoking gun in the exchange but there is a clue. A clue that tells me she is not having an affair with the journalist (well, who'd want a relationship with one of them, right? :rolleyes: I am a journalist! :D).

But she does consider that she may be moving on without you.

You need to address the issues with couple's counselling.
 
#28 ·
Bill there are definately red flags you should be concerned about. You need to start discreetly investiagting ASAP.

Aside from her withdrawing emotionally how are things in the bedroom. I presume the frequencey has dropped?

As instructed buy two good quality VARS place one under her car seat strapped with Velcro and Lithium batteries and another in the house in a spot you think she will most likely talk in.

Additionally try and get access to her phone. Does she keep that under lock and guard?
 
#29 ·
First, forget that cheated on first wife stuff.

She got off her meds, and you was 6 mo's gone.

Sorry guys, just don't compute.

Now, you say it's been a year. Don't know if she is seeing someone else, but it don't seem to be him.

I would take a closer look at the new friend.

Why? New friend has an older hubby, and LOT's of free time. She may be the AP, or the wingman.

The pulling away is the biggest red flag. She is investing emotionally somewhere else.
Also, you wouldn't be the first BS here who's wife left for another woman.
Also can't see her leaving you for her, if it's her. That chick sound like she got it all.
Old man that give her all the toys and freedom she want. So she won't rock that boat.
Hell, she may bring him playmates,,, "your wife".

On here, we have seen it all.
From ww's taking wedding dress across country to make vids with internet ap, to ww leaving BS to join swingers groups.
So we are not surprised much here.

What I think you need to do, is take some time and decide what you want from your wife.
Once you have those, set her down, TELL her, "not explain" that you are not getting these, and see no reason to continue the marriage if things don't change.
Explain how in the past you guys was best friends, but now it seem as you are no more than a roommate.

I think you get the idea. but I would also put a VAR in her car before approaching her.
You may not even have to have that convo.

Sorry you here, but you did find the right ppl to see you through this.
 
#30 ·
If your at the point in your mge, where she picks/complains a good % of the time---it is time to have a serious conversation, about where the mge., is going, and what is to be done. If she refuses, then you need to do something to move her one way or the other, either toward working out the problem, or looking at D.----you do not want to continue on living in the misery you are now in.
She seems from prior dealings to be straight, in that she wouldn't get involved sexually till you had a D.----that may well be the case here, and she may be in an EA, or starting up an Exit A., the last, are also major reasons for you to have a serious sit down, face to face, and get it all out on the table.
Usually when a cheater is cheating, they will also try to satisfy their partner, to deceive the partner as to what is going on, here that doesn't seem to be the case----from what you describe she is just plain unhappy with something or things, again you need a sit down face to face, and get it all out in the open.
Does your wife work for/with the school of Veterinary Medicine there at Davis, the Large Animal Clinic Director is a friend of mine, also the prior director, use to be my Vet. at the racetrack, they are both good people, and knowing them as well as I do----they are not the type of people to allow, their staff members to stain the reputation of the school. Hang in and do what you need to do, but no matter what do something to force this out in the open!!!!!!
 
#31 ·
Bill,

A few questions

1. How supportive were you when your W's brother died? Did you lend her support or let her handle it alone
Just wondering because she seems to have pulled away after that. A woman will pull away if she feels she is not supported and loved in a crisis such as this.

2. The emails are not really a smoking gun, though she is investing time in another male which could lead to an A

3. YOur biggest worry is her pulling away from you, something triggered that. You should talk to her, be open and honest about how your feel and ask her what is going on.

4. In the mean time VAR her car, check the computer, phone, etc when you can.
 
#32 ·
I suppose it's time to be really open with all of you. I didn't want to discuss this, but when you read this, I can guess what your reaction is going to be. However, what I'm about to tell you is the truth and nothing but the truth.

It's been a sex-less marriage for about the past 3-4 years. Not her fault -- mine. Not totally my fault, but medical issues beyond my control.

Since most of the people I'm speaking to are guys -- I'm sure -- at some point -- most of you have seen the film Black Hawk Down, about American involvement in Somalia. There's a scene during a particularly ferocious battle, where a soldier essentially bleeds out and dies. It's because the artery in his leg has ruptured, and the field tech trying to save the soldier's live can't reach it to stem the bleeding. End result, the soldier dies. This was a true story. This really happened. This artery that runs through the leg is also real. I know, because surgeons have opened mine up three times since I turned 39 (I'm 52 now). This was the original procedure to insert a stent into an artery near the heart that had become blocked. The surgeon would make a small incision in the leg near the groin, open up the artery, stick a tube in to open up the artery and then stick another tube inside the first one. The second tube contains a camera. The surgeon pushes this tube up through the artery to the heart muscle, shoots in a bunch of green dye, and takes a bunch of vacation photos. When and if they find a blockage, another tube is inserted into the artery. This tube contains a mesh metal stent. The surgeon guides it to the blocked artery, inserts the stent and springs a trap to open it up. The first procedure, to take pictures of the heart, is called an angiogram. The followup procedure, to insert a stent, is called angioplasty.

I know this sounds harsh, especially if you haven't been through it. But it's a far better option than cracking open the chest for open heart surgery and a double, triple or quadruple bypass. That's serious (as serious as a heart attack).

That procedure, which took place when I was 39, went well. I felt great. The leg healed in a day or two. I went on a weight loss routine and life was even better. The sex was great. But the real problem developed when I had to go in for another procedure about five years ago. My blood pressure had suddenly gone through the roof. I have great health insurance, and since I had this problem with a blocked artery before, the physicians though (rightly so), that another one might be blocked. That would explain the increase in blood pressure. Again -- I was admitted to the cardiac unit for an angiogram. This is where things went horribly, terribly wrong. I knew something wasn't right when the attending nurse began the process of removing the tubes from the artery once the procedure was finished. It hurt. It's not supposed to hurt. It's not comfortable, but it's not supposed to hurt. This one did. Bad. As the pain began to increase, I asked the nurse to stop. She responded that she had to get the tube out of the artery right away, or I could bleed to death. She continued to tug and pull until the point where it got so painful that I started screaming bloody murder. That got the attention of a nearby cardiologist, who figured out pretty quickly that the tube in the artery had somehow got stuck. Worse yet -- the nurse had ripped it WIDE OPEN. I was gushing blood. The rip, I was told, was about six inches.

I was rushed into surgery where a series of injections were made into the area where the rip had taken place. The idea was to thicken the blood, make it congeal, and let the artery heal on its own. The procedure did work. They kept me awake the whole time. And, after about 30 minutes of shot after shot, the bleeding had pretty much stopped.

But that was just the start of an even larger problem. About a quart of blood had leaked out of the wound and into the leg. Because the blood in the artery congealed, the blood in the leg near the groin did the same. Imagine a water balloon in your groin. And there was nothing the doctors could do to get it out. It was simply too dangerous to go digging around near that artery again. I was told the blood bubble would eventually go away on its own. It did -- it took months -- but sex was never the same after that. It was INCREDIBLY painful, especially when the wife was on top. You can imagine her grinding down on that blood bubble. Sex still felt good, but man it was painful.

But, slowly, through the years, I began to lose my ability to get an erection of any type. The doctor prescribed Viagra, but that just made me feel like I was having a heart attack. Plus -- the resulting experience was anything but satisfying. I would satisfy my wife -- but I got absolutely nothing out of it. There was just no feeling there.

So -- sex today is whatever I can do for her with my fingers, mouth or toys. But I feel embarrassed -- less than a man. I mean -- if you cannot get or sustain an erection -- what kind of life is that? Pretty soon, it started to affect my self-confidence. I just didn't want to go through the motions anymore.

My wife is as sexy as she's ever been. I continue to be attracted to her. But, at the same time, I don't act on that attraction anymore. Worse yet, when some surgeries on my back and achilles tendons from "exercise injuries, it brought and end to working out and losing weight. I still eat healthy. I still walk around the neighborhood for daily exercise. But the days of hitting the weight room hard are pretty much over for me. I just can't go through the pain of another back surgery for spinal stenosis again.

So -- that's it guys. That's the whole story. Funny that I would reveal this to you, when it is a deep, dark secret that I am terribly embarrassed and depressed by. This lack of being able to please her (she is six years younger) is probably the reason why I'm losing her.
 
#45 ·
But, slowly, through the years, I began to lose my ability to get an erection of any type. The doctor prescribed Viagra, but that just made me feel like I was having a heart attack. Plus -- the resulting experience was anything but satisfying. I would satisfy my wife -- but I got absolutely nothing out of it. There was just no feeling there.

So -- sex today is whatever I can do for her with my fingers, mouth or toys. But I feel embarrassed -- less than a man. I mean -- if you cannot get or sustain an erection -- what kind of life is that? Pretty soon, it started to affect my self-confidence. I just didn't want to go through the motions anymore.
Two things:
1) See a good urologist - get your TLvls checked and plumbing looked at
2) Penile implant. Start researching that today



Worse yet, when some surgeries on my back and achilles tendons from "exercise injuries, it brought and end to working out and losing weight. I still eat healthy. I still walk around the neighborhood for daily exercise. But the days of hitting the weight room hard are pretty much over for me. I just can't go through the pain of another back surgery for spinal stenosis again.
.
You need to shift your paradigm about working out.

Can't lift weights - change your approach.

Get a sport wheel chair - there are ones with variable resistance for wheelchair athletes to help build strength and endurance.

Use that to build upper body strength and endurance.
Do leg lifts and planks to build your core
Do wall sits and weight free squats and lunges for back and legs

It's all in how you approach things.
Positive thought breeds success.
Negative thought breeds failure

Fix the low hanging fruit first - start your paradigm shift to change the extremely simple things about you that don't like.

Move on to more difficult issues with help of specialists (MC for example).

Always look to the positive.
 
#33 ·
Damn.

It's not a deep, dark secret. It's a story of medical negligence and catastrophe, which you are doing your best to deal with.

Inspirational rather than embarrassing.

Have you been as open with your wife about this situation and your feelings about it?

BTW, as a journalist I have got used to people telling me their life story. Maybe that's what happened with your wife and the journalist? :scratchhead:

I don't know why, it just happens. :D
 
#34 ·
So...because you haven't (I assume) gone to therapy to deal with your new feelings of inadequacy (not being a real man), you now assume you are worthless and any day now she's going to realize it and leave you.

Is that about right?

If so, what are you doing to FIX those feelings of inadequacy?

You know, instead of becoming hypervigilant on catching her cheating?

Women fall out of love with insecure men. In fact, they grow to dislike them. Even distance themselves from them. Maybe what you're experiencing is that.

This lack of being able to please her (she is six years younger) is probably the reason why I'm losing her.
And so you know, you described above ALL THE WAYS in which you satisfy her. And yet here you say you don't. What you REALLY mean is that you feel you're not satisfying her because you are using YOUR metric - a man's metric - for what satisfying means. And being six years younger? Just another symptom that this is all about your low self worth; as in, why would a hot YOUNG THING be interested in an ugly old man like me?

Time for therapy. And take her with you so she can be your PARTNER.
 
#35 · (Edited)
So...because you haven't (I assume) gone to therapy to deal with your new feelings of inadequacy (not being a real man), you now assume you are worthless and any day now she's going to realize it and leave you.

Is that about right?

If so, what are you doing to FIX those feelings of inadequacy?

You know, instead of becoming hypervigilant on catching her cheating?

Women fall out of love with insecure men. In fact, they grow to dislike them. Even distance themselves from them. Maybe what you're experiencing is that.

And so you know, you described above ALL THE WAYS in which you satisfy her. And yet here you say you don't. What you REALLY mean is that you feel you're not satisfying her because you are using YOUR metric - a man's metric - for what satisfying means. And being six years younger? Just another symptom that this is all about your low self worth; as in, why would a hot YOUNG THING be interested in an ugly old man like me?

Time for therapy. And take her with you so she can be your PARTNER.
Unless she thinks Bill doesn't really love her any more?
 
#37 ·
Go to a urologist about the ED.

Check with your cardiologist about taking something along the lines of Cialis. You might be surprised at how that can help.

The days of sex like a 30 year old are gone - accept it. You cannot measure you performance against that. But you might get back enough to keep you both satisfied if your wife is understanding and willing to help you through this. Open and honest communication with your wife is a must. Tell her how you feel and tell her you expect the truth from her and for her to not try to protect you from getting hurt.

I am talking from personal experience here. A big problem is your low self worth from the changes and fear of failure. What have you got to lose? The talk I had with my wife helped beyond measure and our sex life has improved.

Edit: I tried Viagra early on. Felt like I was having a stroke. The pain in my head sometimes stopped me right in the middle of having sex.
 
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