I don't know what would be the right title - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 10:51 AM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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Originally Posted by Graywolf2 View Post
This is classic. In fact I’ve developed a profile or list of risk factors.
1. Around 40
2. Empty or about to be empty nest
3. New job or went back to school
4. Reconnected with old boyfriend or runs with a younger crowd
5. Married young. Limited or no sexual experience with other men
6. Lost weight. Has a trainer
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Originally Posted by aine View Post
i fit 5 out of 6 of these but have no intention of cheating. it is normal when your kids grow up that you turn attention to yourself as the H is usually still engrossed in whatever took his time before, i.e. work, golf, hobbies etc. So unless you make all women whose kids have left stay locked up in the house as housewives it is almost certain they will do something such as go back to school, work, lose weight etc as they have time to focus on themselves. I think you should add another factor

7. a husband who has for the most part been neglectful and preoccupied with other matters for most of the marriage (unless when he wants to be fed or have sex)
I agree. My profile is a warning for husbands to keep their eyes open and maybe step up their game. My previous post also included a player describing how to seduce married women. It’s good for husbands to read to get an idea of how to treat their wife. I did and it worked great.

Attention = happy wife. Happy wife = sex.

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post #77 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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You mentioned the two of you hav identical phones. Do you get one bill ? Can you get access to the bill that number will show up on?

Standard Evidence Post. Review this link.


Do not let your WW's action define you. Let your response define you.
How could I have missed that. All phones are on a family plan, one owner, shared Internet allowance. Just got to the office and downloaded all in excel. Plethora of call to a from a certain mobile number with sharp decrease (but still quite a few) after the discovery day. Also a huge increase in Internet traffic.

Thanks to everyone else who responded, but I'm not in a position to respond individually ATM.
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post #78 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 04:09 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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Just got to the office and downloaded all in excel. Plethora of call to a from a certain mobile number with sharp decrease (but still quite a few) after the discovery day. Also a huge increase in Internet traffic.
Bingo. Hopefully the other phone is not a burner phone.

Make sure you notice the times of day. First thing in the morning, end of the work day, and just before bed time - would be typical for a cheater. Also times when you're not there at home with her.
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post #79 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 04:13 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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Originally Posted by Hantei View Post
How could I have missed that. All phones are on a family plan, one owner, shared Internet allowance. Just got to the office and downloaded all in excel. Plethora of call to a from a certain mobile number with sharp decrease (but still quite a few) after the discovery day. Also a huge increase in Internet traffic.

Thanks to everyone else who responded, but I'm not in a position to respond individually ATM.
She's likely moved from traditional talking and texting to using apps to communicate... and that's even if she's still talking and texting.

For example, she could be using Skype or FaceTime to talk and WhatsApp or SnapChat to text.

But hey, at least you have the guy's number now.
Posted via Mobile Device

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #80 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 04:17 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

Don't forget lunch time,

But so what. You know what's what. Her actions do not define you, your actions going forward will. Regardless exposure is a must


Exposure *101

Exposure 101*

Exposure is simply your most powerful weapon against an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure can be ruinous. Exposure is no guarantee, but it is your best bet at killing the affair and making it possible to save your marriage. YES, we know your spouse will be furious, but the goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all cost. Your marriage can survive his/her temporary anger; it cannot survive an ongoing affair. Read up on why exposure is so effective: When Should an Affair Be Exposed?*

Originally Posted By: Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."


Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."


Dr Harley tells a betrayed husband he is an "enabler" for not exposing his wife's affair: radio clip*

Dr Harley tells BTinTrouble to "expose the heck out of his wife's affair" [exposure saved their marriage, btw] radio clip here*

Exposure targets
Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the affair partner, pastor. Facebook friends of affair partner.*

Exposure Timing
Exposure should be done immediately. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. There is never any “perfect” time to expose, so don’t delay while looking for an imaginary perfect time.*

Expose on the SAME DAY – or as close as possible – in order to achieve a tsunami effect. The affairees should be completely taken by surprise. Doing this creates a powerful hit on the affair and prevents the affairees from pre-empting you

Exposure Tactics

Spouse of affair partner- Give your full name, phone # and email address. Tell the other BS all about the affair, offer to share all evidence with him/her. Offer to follow up to ensure that contact is truly ended and ask the other BS to do the same. The other BS will be shocked when you tell him, so be sure and give your email address and phone # for follow up questions. ALWAYS GIVE THE OTHER BS YOUR WS'S PHONE # IN CASE HE/SHE WANTS TO CALL.*

Parents, close family, friends – Tell them about the affair, giving them names, general timelines, etc. Explain you are attempting to save your marriage and would be willing to forgive your WS if he/she ended the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the WS to end her affair. A way to save time is to call both sets of parents and send an email to the other close family and friends. Template letter posted below

Parents of affair partner. Give your full name and explain why you are calling. Ask them to use their influence with their son/daughter to persuade them to leave your spouse alone. It might also help if the PARENT of the WS calls them too.*

Workplace exposure: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee’s supervisors using the template letter posted below.

Facebook exposure: Should be done to the affair partner’s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the AP’s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM’S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below.


Send the Evidence! Provide the evidence via email to your exposure targets. One ideal way to do this is to start up a website, upload your evidence and send out the link to everyone. This prevents the WS from denying there is an affair.

The Fallout
Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!*

The goal is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs.

Just say, "I am so sorry you are upset.. Can I get you a potato chip?" *

Common Exposure Mistakes

Telling the WS that you got the idea to expose on the internet rather than taking ownership of your actions. Then the discussion becomes “who???” When the WS is told it was Marriage Builders, the WS is forever jaundiced against Marriage Builders, which harms future recovery chances. You need to OWN IT. Saying somebody told you to do it does not work for 5 year olds and it won’t work for you!

Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.*

Doing trickle exposures. Meaning exposing to just a few people but not to everyone that could have an influence. Trickle exposures are a disaster because they are not enough to kill the affair but just enough to infuriate the WS enough to come after the BS. So the exposure essentially only served to beat down the already beaten BS for no benefit.

Eliminating exposure targets because that person “has no influence over my WS” even though this is a person with long history over the WS. Such as a mother or father. Such targets cannot be dismissed on such a subjective basis because the BS CANNOT PREDICT WHO WILL OR WON’T HAVE AN INFLUENCE OVER THE WS. Sorry, but unless you are psychic and your name is Madame Cleo, you don’t know. Many WS are estranged from a parent, sibling, pastor but that is not a knock out factor.*

Threatening to expose. Using exposure as a threat only serves to forewarn the affairees and cause them to go further underground. All you have achieved is to give the enemy your battle plan so they can come back and kick your rear tomorrow. It also gives them an opportunity to pre-empt you and tell others you are “crazy” “jealous”. Then then when you do expose no one will take you seriously. Threatening to expose is the equivalent of giving your battle plan to the enemy. Don't do that!

Deleting or throwing away evidence after the affair is killed. DO NOT DO THIS! You will need this in case the affair starts up again or if you get divorced. Yes, we know you don't want to be triggered. Fine. Then bag up the evidence and put it somewhere for safekeeping. Do not throw it away!

This is from mb here is the link. Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums
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post #81 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 04:18 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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Originally Posted by GusPolinski View Post
She's likely moved from traditional talking and texting to using apps to communicate... and that's even if she's still talking and texting.

For example, she could be using Skype or FaceTime to talk and WhatsApp or SnapChat to text.

But hey, at least you have the guy's number now.
Posted via Mobile Device
Or on a pro-cheater website, perhaps, getting trained in covert adultery techniques?

http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk
http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk...-cheaters.html (Be afraid UK cheaters! CheaterVille has come to the UK!
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post #82 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 07:36 AM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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These women want to prove that they still have it. Sometimes these women have no intention of ever leaving their husband. Your wife obviously does.

Your wife does love you but it’s like a brother. You even grew up with each other. She considers you an old friend and doesn’t want to hurt you. She values the stability and security you offer but it’s boring.

What’s simple for you at this point is that there is only one way to go. Divorce talk will make it real for her. She’s like a monkey in that she wants to grab a new branch before she lets go of the old one. She’s not sure it the new branch will support her weight.


There is an old saying that men give attention for sex and women give sex for attention.
This is really good stuff right here. It's clearly what happened.

And this is why you cut off your branch. If the other one can support her weight (and usually it cannot), she holds onto it and you know that you were certainly Plan B. If the other one snaps and she falls, she'll come crawling back to you, sobbing, snots bubbling out of her nose, on her knees, begging for your forgiveness. And at THAT point, you have all control of what happens next.
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post #83 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 12:04 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

Even if she decided she wants you, would you still want her? It sounds like you are working on getting an attorney, so that's a good step. Just go ahead and file. Take the decision away from her and stand on your own feet.

"You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!" Victor Von Frankenstein
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post #84 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

@Graywolf2, @Gabriel - this is scarily close to the reality I'm afraid. All of 3 paragraphs. I'm saying that because the number was not a burner phone, and using only the information available to the public I have managed to learn a bit about this guy. And - I don't have any reason to lie to myself - looks like the only differentiator that could lead a happily (as per her own words) married women and mother to sleep with that guy is a simple fact that he is not me.

Basically he is some sort of salesman however unlike what wife's told me before (not a lot I should say) he does not work for any of the blue chip/multinationals. Looks like he is either solo/on commission/one-man business or part of a small business. So if he's lucky he is in the same income band as I am. He's definitely no younger or fitter than I am (looks older), married or in a relationship with at least one kid and looks like that typical salesman that tries to sell you that miracle workout device over the free air TV channel when you get a free DVD if you call within next 24 hours. He could very well be a prince charming when you are in the same room with him, but I don't know that.
What gets me totally confused is the fact that I cannot think about any way my wife could cross paths with him. No common friends, no work-related interactions, nothing. Total stranger to me yet he has bedded her.

I also think she's is getting ready to move on - with our without him. Nothing specific, just her MO and mood in general. Feels like she did not want to declare this on her own (e.g. to initiate a separation) but since I'm going down that path she seems to be playing along. Calls have been stopped but she could use any other way of communications available - social media, messaging apps, whatever. I don't see any opportunity for her to see him in person these days - at the same time I have been fooled about this anyway so who knows. Definitely no remorse and any desire to fight for the marriage. In terms of moving on - don't know if she's planning to do it with him (feels like it) or not- in any case she works; that job alone could not sustain her (definitely not the lifestyle of a comparable level) but her parents are doing well and she is really close to them so she'll be alright in any case.
One more thing - working on exposure (don't feel like it but why not be ready if I can) I have not told her all the details I know but in a moment of anger I let her know I have his name (in a context of "I wonder if he [name] would be able to maintain his charisma if we are to meet face to face"). Guess what - she jumped to his defence asking me not to do "anything stupid". Of course she claims this is to protect me from legal troubles but I'm finding this hard to believe.

I opened a new savings account and new credit card on Friday and will start transferring funds, income and recurring payments to these today.
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post #85 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 03:21 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

The truth is she is in the fog right now. People in the fog are capable of things you would never expect. Don't say they will never, they already did when they jumped in the sack with the other person. If I have not posted before embrace the 180. The 180 is to help you detach, not get her back. She may try to come back but that is an occasional by product.


Liove shack 180*


There continue to be more and more arrivals to our LS section on Divorce and Separation. Often, I find myself technically challenged when it comes to citing links, or just general recall sometimes. As well, I many times repeat my reading advice to posters. As a contributor to this section, I thought it might be useful to us and our newcomers to get all of our reading materials in one place, rather than citing and re-citing.

Perhaps others will join me in posting helpful relevant material and cites -- on this new thread I am trying to begin. Can some please post the most current "No Contact" draft that is available so it will come up in the second post of the thread?*

Theefore, please of our find our most popular reference below:*

THE 180's:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)*

So here's the list:*
Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

Here is the link Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums

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post #86 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 03:29 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

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Originally Posted by Hantei View Post

Basically he is some sort of salesman however unlike what wife's told me before (not a lot I should say) he does not work for any of the blue chip/multinationals. Looks like he is either solo/on commission/one-man business or part of a small business. So if he's lucky he is in the same income band as I am. He's definitely no younger or fitter than I am (looks older), married or in a relationship with at least one kid and looks like that typical salesman that tries to sell you that miracle workout device over the free air TV channel when you get a free DVD if you call within next 24 hours. He could very well be a prince charming when you are in the same room with him, but I don't know that.
What gets me totally confused is the fact that I cannot think about any way my wife could cross paths with him. No common friends, no work-related interactions, nothing. Total stranger to me yet he has bedded her.
She made a concious decision to do this. Who it is with is not really relevant in terms of your relationship. It is all on her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hantei View Post

I also think she's is getting ready to move on - with our without him. Nothing specific, just her MO and mood in general. Feels like she did not want to declare this on her own (e.g. to initiate a separation) but since I'm going down that path she seems to be playing along. Calls have been stopped but she could use any other way of communications available - social media, messaging apps, whatever. I don't see any opportunity for her to see him in person these days - at the same time I have been fooled about this anyway so who knows. Definitely no remorse and any desire to fight for the marriage. In terms of moving on - don't know if she's planning to do it with him (feels like it) or not- in any case she works; that job alone could not sustain her (definitely not the lifestyle of a comparable level) but her parents are doing well and she is really close to them so she'll be alright in any case.
I imagine you are seeing contempt in her eyes. That is awful.
She has already replaced you. You were just not informed of it



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hantei View Post
One more thing - working on exposure (don't feel like it but why not be ready if I can) I have not told her all the details I know but in a moment of anger I let her know I have his name (in a context of "I wonder if he [name] would be able to maintain his charisma if we are to meet face to face"). Guess what - she jumped to his defence asking me not to do "anything stupid". Of course she claims this is to protect me from legal troubles but I'm finding this hard to believe.
Expose him to his wife (if you can find her). She has a right to know. My Ex fell for the same salesman type who also threatened me ( her) with legal action if I contacted anyone.
It took me a long time to find his wife but it was well worth it. This guy needs a reality check. Your wife needs a reality check. If you you can tell his wife as soon as possible.
It is quiet the spectacle when you do. Just stand back and watch the sh1tstorm


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I opened a new savings account and new credit card on Friday and will start transferring funds, income and recurring payments to these today.
This may not feel like it but it is a positive step. It is you reclaiming your life
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post #87 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 03:30 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

You also need to revise your will to name your son as your heir.

Get that exposure done now! The longer he is involved with your wife the more entitled and the greater her demands become. They are feeding of each other telling each other how much the deserve. F-102 wrote a post to show how an E/A starts which in your wife's most likely occurred before the P/A here is the link Emotional Affairs and the Sob Story

Also @marduk has a great how to guide
A strategy*

Author: MEM
Editor: Marduk

If you are reading this it's because the most important person in the world - betrayed you. Sorry you're here. The good news is that you are the product of thousands of generations of clever, resourceful, tough ancestors who navigated flood, famine and ice age and consequently much stronger than you realize. You might love and want your partner, but you don't need them. Accept that and allow it to inform your actions to maximize your outcome. Conversely, choose to believe and act as if you need your spouse, and bring your worst fears to fruition. Love is your friend, need and neediness are your enemy.*

From the point of discovery forward you ought to focus on regaining your emotional equilibrium. It's hard to do because you naturally feel disoriented. Your primary human anchor just pulled up. Pick a trusted friend with a balanced view of your marriage and talk to them. Exercise is critical. Sleep may be tough. Catch up on weekends if possible. Try to prioritize this stuff until you've gotten through the worst of the disorientation. Avoid alcohol, drugs and opposite sex entanglements.

With that as prelude, the guidelines below are intended to help you navigate the Rapids:
- Assess the overall marriage
- Confirm that your spouse feels the same way
- Execute either an ALL IN reconciliation or the cleanest possible extraction from the marriage

I'm going to write this gender neutral - with one exception. Physical intimidation is not only maritally toxic - it may come back to bite you hard in family court. Pretend your spouse is recording, nay videotaping every conversation.*

Assessment: The goal is to search your soul and/or your gut to decide whether you think the marriage worth saving. Might help you to ask yourself some tough questions. Thing is, most folks feel some amount of love when they marry. And love is a beautiful thing. But for the long game, and marriage is the ultimate long game - compatibility rules. Love sans compatibility is the worst pairing of all. Virtually guarantees unhappiness. No oath, no vow will stop an unhappy person from cheating - either via a continuation of the affair or a brand new one. So roll back to just before you 'think' the affair started and answer the following queries.*

1. From that vantage if you could choose all over again, would you marry this person?*
2. How would your partner answer that question had they been asked it pre-affair?
3. Do/did you love each other?
4. Are you compatible?*
5. How much did my spouse accept and/or seek my company?
6. My non sexual touch
7. Sex*
8. Overall did they do a good job of making me feel loved/important?
9. Did I do a good job of making them feel loved/important?
10. Was your partner overall trustworthy, reliable and focused on you? 11. Or did they have a wandering eye, a flirtatious posture towards others.*
12. Did they let you marry them, or want to marry you?*
13. Do they feel sick about betraying you?
14. Or only sick they have been caught?
15. Or only sick at the prospect of being exposed to friends/family?
16. Or only sick at the thought of having to end the affair?*
17. Have they cheated on prior partners?*

After answering those questions you ought to have a good feel about recon or divorce.*

If you want to reconcile, it is time to discover what your partner wants.*
1. Do they want to stay married/try and reconcile?
2. Why did they cheat?*
3. What are they willing to DO to rebuild trust and heal?
4. Write a no contact letter?
5. Make a no contact call in your presence?
6. End the affair without one last get together for closure?
7. Provide transparency via phones and passwords etc?
8. Resume (if the affair interrupted it) a normal sex life with you?
9. Provide you with whatever details you want including a timeline of the affair?
10. Transfer departments or change employers entirely if their AP is from work?*
11. Take a test for STDs
12. Take a pregnancy test

Regarding (2), listen carefully. Might learn stuff ends up improving your marriage. The responses to (2) range from: we had a good marriage and I behaved selfishly and that is entirely on me. To you are the worst spouse since Henry the eighth and that is the ONLY reason I cheated. What they say might however, have real merit. For instance: you stopped sleeping with me years ago, or you consistently rejected my requests to spend time together. If you were the primary cause of a weak marriage, you need to decide if you can fix it. And you should acknowledge that and commit to fixing it.*

Confirmation: This phase is mostly about observable behavior. Words and in this case vows - are cheap. Actions WILL confirm or contradict your assessment. Is their primary emotion remorse or resentment. The stuff they committed to doing up above - are they doing it without pressure. Or is it you dragging them along. Considerate and kind about your heightened anxiety level? Or accusing you of being controlling?*

Execution: If you've both decided to try to recon, it's critical to accept the following:*
1. The more needy you seem, the less lovable you will be. This is every bit as unfair as it is true.*
2. People use the following phrase all the time: I was crying and begging them to stay
3. Crying is ok. It's about the loss of something you prized. It shows love.
4. Begging may be the single most toxic thing a betrayed spouse typically does. Crying means: You love them and are sad at the thought of losing them. Begging means you don't love yourself very much.*
5. If their affair partner is married or living with someone, you ought to contact that person and let them know what's been happening. There are several benefits to that, the best one is this. If your spouse has truly committed to NC, won't be a big deal. If they are still prioritizing their AP, you will get an angry reaction.*
6. If their AP is a coworker they frequently interact with, that's an inherently difficult situation. The focus should be on their prioritizing a transfer/company change.
7. Your perception of time is now different. Before Dday - you likely weren't nearly as impacted if they were running a bit late and didn't call. When it happens after Dday, you feel a lot more anxious. Thing is, if you call or text them every time they are officially one minute late, they will love you less. Doesn't mean you ought to be a doormat. If they are routinely way late without a call - that is a very bad sign. At minimum it means they are comfortable knowingly causing you intense distress.
8. Sex is a great litmus test for whether the recon is genuine. A WS who, upon discovery abandons, or continues to abandon the marital bed, is likely insincere.
9. Some folks advocate a zero tolerance shock and awe approach to demanding they stop the affair. This is a: choose right now one way or the other approach.*
10. Others are willing to compete with the AP over a period of time when faced with a WS who openly refuses to stop the affair. This is more likely a good strategy if you believe your pre-affair conduct was a significant contributor to the affair and want your spouse to see the 'new and improved' you before insisting they choose. And in some cases, this approach results in their choosing to end it of their own free will. Most folks find this competition period intensely stressful. If your partner is either selfish or has weak character, they will string this out as long as you allow. And will constantly move the goal posts for what you must do to win them back. This path MUST have a bright line end date.*
11. There are many paths to successful recon. However, a partner who continues a sexual relationship with their AP, while refusing to sleep with you, rarely reconciles. They tend to totally lose respect for you for tolerating it.*
12. Last but not least. You may be tempted to employ some extreme tactics in an effort to recon. These include your use of third parties either to advise of shame your partner. See examples below.*

Option 1: Attempting to cripple your partner so they CAN'T leave. If you go this route, eventually everyone you know will know that - you've turned into a psychopath - including your children and the family court judge. Good luck with that.*

BS: I just called the last of our friends and family and sent an email out to them as well. I told them what you did to me and the children. And asked them to contact you and tell you how wrong it is to destroy our family for a few cheap fvcks. I also contacted your employer and made a big fuss. I think they're going to fire you. And when I spoke to your AP's spouse, they told me they are going to try and work it out with your AP. And I also called the minister at our church. So go ahead and divorce me. Just know that you have no friends, your family is on my side, you will shortly be unemployed, you are unwelcome at our church and your AP is likely going to dump you. One last thing, I told the kids too. They were spitting mad.

Option 2: AKA - the voice of reason approach
BS: Picks one person who knows and loves their WS. Swears that person to secrecy and asks them to reach out to the WS and try and support them through the fog. The message to the friend is short and practical. I believe we had a good marriage and can recover. WS is lost in the fog. If you believe WS will end up regretting a divorce, maybe you can support me in helping them navigate out of the fog.*

Obviously there are many points on the spectrum between option 1 and option 2. A small modification to option 2 is to disclose to the partner of your spouse's AP. That person is in the same boat you are. That's actually a very effective step.
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post #88 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 03:55 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

Do not leave the home. She leaves !!!!!!
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post #89 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 05:11 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

As a fellow aussie myself. Mate i'm truly sorry. It is vital that you seperate all joint bank accounts without telling her. Book an appoitment with a good family law firm find out your rights and take it from there.

From someone that has been through this and knows the family law system pretty well due to my employment she will most probably try for single parent payment. You do not move out of the family home and you contest with centrelink that you are in fact looking after the children yourself. This will not immediately enable her to get Family Tax benefit for any kids to herself as Centrelink will investigate first.

If reconcilation is your main goal you need to make this as difficult for her as possible. Also do not agree to pay any form of private childcare arrangement. I have seen plenty of mothers go back on their word then you will have to repay the proper amount even if you have agreed to something more than you shuld be paying.

In fact no child support whilst you are still living in the house and providing for the kids.

Good luck mate and keep coming back here you will get some good advice
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post #90 of 1809 (permalink) Old 02-28-2016, 05:23 PM
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Re: I don't know what would be the right title

Actually you should file first to get custody and tax credits. Keep her off balance.
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