sigma1299

Most of the regulars will know I'm a recovering wayward husband. In the process of basically going through self counseling trying to figure out why I had an EA while married to a wonderful woman who I deeply love I have come to the conclusion that my parents are human - shocking I know. I always believed growing up we were the Cleavers, my friends and even my wife joked about it. As it turns out my family is as twisted as anyone's. So I've realized that they may have not set a good example of what a successful and loving marriage is supposed to be and I'm trying to re-write my programing on it to be a better husband and have a better marriage. In trying to do so I've decided I'd love any thoughts or input about my parents marriage and how it may have affected me. There is infidelity in this story - I promise I'm in the right forum. So if you're willing to read a little and do some retro active marriage counseling read on - it may be lengthy. A little back ground...

Growing up I idolized my parents but especially my father - nothing unusual in that, but I really believed he was infallible. Both of my parents are the products of pretty twisted childhoods. My mother's mother ran off with another man and it was so scandalous that my grandmother, her OM (who I consider my GF) and my mother had to move over 1,000 miles away. (side note - my mother HATED her father and blamed him for the divorce of her parents. I never really thought about it before but after my time here I find it really ironic that her mother ran off with another man and she hates her father. I guess she got the re-written version of the marital history) My GM and GF were very happy and stayed married until he died, not a statistic everyone here in CWI wants to here, but it is what it is. Anyway, it really affected my mother and she swore she would never let her children go through what she did. My father grew up with a passive aggressive and master manipulator mother who controlled both him and his father. As an adult my father despised her until the day she died last year at 98. He swore that he would make sure his children had a stable loving home.

So I grew up believing I was a Wally Cleaver (I have one younger brother so I had to be Wally). My parents were happy, loving, provided a wonderful home for my brother and I, life was great. I remember a dark period where my father was always angry, never did anything and things just being very tense and not very happy. I remember being worried about my parents getting divorced to the point I asked them about it. I think this went about two to three years. As an adult I wrote it off to my father quitting smoking during this time (he went from 4 packs a day to cold turkey), a bad hurricane that hit and his buying a business around this time. I never really thought about it through my late teens and twenties. As I got a little older and time went on my parents relationship seemed to deteriorate. Not horrifically, they primarily seemed like they weren't in love with each other any more and didn't respect each other. It got kind of uncomfortable to watch, but who was I to judge they'd been married 30 years at that time, a successful marriage right? So time goes on and their marriage doesn't get any worse, but it doesn't get any better. I remarked to my wife once that I thought my father may have had an affair at some point. She asked me why and I told her that every time they fought it was like they hit some invisible barrier and he just shut down. My father doesn't shut down from anything or anyone. He is absolutely not afraid of confrontation and usually will try to win a fight at any cost to a fault. I told my wife that the only thing I could imagine that could do that between them was his having had an affair or something of equal consequence. That was the end of that conversation other than my wife noticing the same thing periodically and saying I may be right. As before my parents marriage didn't get worse but didn't get better. Skip ahead.

So six years ago another hurricane hits our area - a bad one. It's a disaster - literally. Everyone is stressed to their limit trying to get their worlds back together. Were about two months after the storm and my father says, "I need to tell you something." I'm thinking it's something about the storm and our business. He says, "about 25 years ago I had an affair that went on for 18 months." Without retelling the whole conversation it was a full on EA/PA. He told me it was the most emotionally damaging and draining thing he had ever done, and that he eventually told the OW he was going back to his wife and went home and confessed to my mother because he was about to have a nervous breakdown. He went on to say that he told me because my opinion of him was very important to him and that I couldn't have an honest opinion of him if I didn't know his deepest darkest secret. I told him, that it wasn't my position to have an opinion, he and Mom had clearly worked it out, that everyone made mistakes and that I love and respect him very much. End of conversation. End of back ground.

So in trying to work through what I did I have come to believe that my parents never got over my father's A. I think my mother just swept it under the rug and didn't deal with it, likely committing to herself to "stay together for the kids." I believe that in the 30 years since his A she has silently held it over his head and slowly punished him for it. She has not been an affectionate wife to him and I know their sex life has been an issue as in non-existent (not a fun thing to know about your parents -eew). I believe my father withdrew and accepted my mother's behavior as his penance and that he also committed to himself to "stay together for the kids" and also that he felt he wasn't entitled to a divorce. If my mother took him back I think he believed he had to stay. With these positions adopted my parents went on through the next 35 years, resentment building, loving each other but certainly appearing to not being in love with each other, and basically each having to much invested with each other to leave. I think today they are next to miserable. They have next to nothing in common that I can see, they don't appear to enjoy spending time together and they just don't seem happy. They aren't particularly nice to each other, it's like neither has any respect for the other. My father can be down right insulting to my mother and my mother is neglectful of things she knows are important to my father. Post my affair and through our reconciliation my wife and I have both repeatedly said we don't want to become like my parents. I have recognized that despite the tenure of their marriage it is not necessarily successful. They have now been married 44 years I think and they will stay married until one of them dies, but I can't say their marriage is a real love story - at least it doesn't appear to be. So I wonder if they should have stayed married? Did they pay too big a price in the name of "staying together for the kids?" Don't get me wrong, they provided a great home to grow up in - they really accomplished their mutual objective of providing a good home for their children. But as an adult, able to understand and see their relationship as a marriage between a man and woman and not just as my parents, I wonder if what I saw and learned was a good example? I wonder if they should have divorced? I can't imagine my life if they had, but I wonder if they would be happier?

Well as with all therapy the most productive part is simply processing what's in your head enough to say it or write it - so a thanks to TAM for providing a venue. If you made it to the end I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments you may have, either about my parents marriage directly or how it relates to me and what I did.

Oh and someone tell me where I need to send the $300 for this hour.

morituri

Sad tale sigma. I hope that one day your parents find some peace in their lives.

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sigma1299

Thanks morituri. Their marriage has really become an enigma to me. On one hand they did provide a great home to grow up in and have been married almost 45 years. Other than my father's one serious indiscretion they have really stuck by their vows, at least the better or worse or part. On the other hand they just don't seem to particularly enjoy or respect each other, which seems an awful way to spend one's life. I actually asked my father at one point why he didn't just get a divorce if he was unhappy. He said something to the effect of it's just not worth it/it's too late. Part of me wonders if that's just what marriage is after 45 years. I've seen several couples that seem to suffer similar issues, but I've seen others that don't. Growing up with them did lead to a tendency for me to treat my wife more like a child than my equal, which she let me get away with. It was one of the things that contributed to my susceptibility to an affair. Post D Day I figured out I didn't want to be married to someone subservient but rather to an equal, and have changed the way I treat my wife; along with some other changes it has done wonders for our marriage. Now I'm just trying to identify the dysfunctional parts of their relationship and take steps to either correct or avoid the same issues in my own marriage. Thanks for reading.
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lovesherman

My take on this is that they did not understand the reconciliation process. I can't say exactly where they went wrong, but your father should have shown true remorse, sent a no contact letter, provided total transparency for his whereabouts, and done everything he could to show your mother that he was committed to the marriage.

It is also possible that even if he did these things, your mother would not be able to get over the hurt and forgive him. Some people are not capable of this. In that case, yes, I think they should have gotten a divorce and made a new life for themselves.

borninapril

I completely understand what your going through and how strange it is to see your parents marriage in a different light. I'm not going to even try to go into detail about my parents, but the easiest thing to say is they shouldn't have married or tried to stay together for the kids. I do understand the motives for much of what they did. But the funny thing is, now talking to my Mother she doesn't remember half the things my brother and I remember. She's almost rewritten our childhood to be "Cleaver-esque". I would almost buy it too if my brother and I didn't have a lot of the same memories.

disbelief

Wow there's a perspective.
Is the way they handled it and handling the product of the time?
The no divorce generation vs our no fault divorce drive through generation.
We here who fight for the save according to stats are in the minority and
I can rt now think of 5 couples who have dealt with A's and to my knowledge only done traditional mc
when I see them together u can detect the tension.
So assuming in my social circle I am one of 6 searching for the above and beyond way to best fix this we are the minority.
It is obvious in divorce stats.

After this year I can see how a couple can happily or resenfully stay together like everything else it is a choice.
Pls excuse my rant.
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Runs like Dog

Maybe they would still be equally miserable with different partners anyway. Maybe they realized they were broken. Maybe it was religion. Or shame. Or indifference. Or maybe being miserable was the only thing they had in common.

The point is, your parents don't live for your appreciation or understanding. Everyone's parents relationship is somewhat more entangled and complex than what their children think they're witness to. And make no mistake your emotional understanding of your parents rarely grows beyond what children understand. It's a child's view of the world.

A veritable goldmine of Freudian compulsions.

Jellybeans

He says, "about 25 years ago I had an affair that went on for 18 months." Without retelling the whole conversation it was a full on EA/PA. He told me it was the most emotionally damaging and draining thing he had ever done

That seems to be the recurring outcome of affairs.

Remember, you and your wife are not your parents. You need to be open and honest with her and her with you. I've no doubt she has a lot of resentment towards you because of your affair, Sigma.

Are you guys in MC?

sigma1299

There's no doubt they did not handle the reconciliation process right. I was 9/10 years old when it all went down I think so I have no idea of the details. However, it's pretty apparent to me that 1. he did at some point go NC and 2. that they massively rug swept the whole thing and did not deal with it - I think this is where a lot of their issues today come from. It's like they stuck it in a box and it built this wall of resentment between them that has now been there so long they don't know how to have a relationship without it. Of course I could be all wrong - may be they're not as unhappy as they look to me. It's their marriage and certainly not mine to judge. I guess now that I'm a member of the infidelity club to I have a new perspective on their marriage and want desperately to avoid the situation they now appear to be in.

I certainly understand that my parents marriage is theirs, that they don't live any part of it for me or my brother - but they did - that's what "staying together for the kids" is. I think that when my brother finally grew up and moved out the reason they had stayed together moved out to and they were left with a marriage that they may well should have ended all those years ago. I think today it's just not worth the effort to separate for either of them. Honestly I wouldn't really care either way as long as it was amicable. I can today see their marriage as an adult, not as their child, that's how and why I posted here - to get some other opinions and find out if how I see it now has any validity.

Jellybeans

True. What's done cannot be un-done. That is the thing that sucks about infidelity. You can never go back to that innocence in a relationship after it happens.

Pit-of-my-stomach

It has validity. It's your perception, it's changed.

Life, situations, circumstances,... Everything is perception.

Your perception has new colors.

Your childhood was painted with one palette of colors, your adult life and your experiences have painted it with all new tones and shadows... Im fairly confident it was never as bright as it was through the pure colors of childhood, and not as dark and gloomy as your own experiences and guilts have colored it now.

You know the saying about seeing things through rose colored glasses? People that see things like that by and large dont even know that they are looking at things like that. Same goes the other way I think, Maybe life has put dark tinted, smoked over glasses on you when you weren't watching? I know that I have to reach up and feel my nose pretty often to see if I have those on... I've worn them for awhile without realizing it.

Im just thinking outloud obviously, but I recognize that my experiences have colored everything in the world a darker more sinister color and I hate that I see things like that. Sometimes I don't even realize it. But, Im trying very hard to wash some of these colors out of my eyes.

Almostrecovered

I disagree


You did cheat on your wife, yes?

It's very possible you learned the wrong relationship dynamics from your father. It wasn't conscious by him but it happened all the same. And now at least you're learning from his mistakes.

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sigma1299

JB - I hope she doesn't harbor resentment toward me. We have been as honest as we know how to be over the last year since D Day and I think are well on our way to a successful reconciliation. We have both done a very good job (IMHO) of communicating and working through my affair. Her in really putting her faith back in me that my efforts and remorse were genuine and me in doing whatever she needed to find peace of mind again. I have no doubt that there are still issues to work out and deal with. I don't think we're done dealing with this - we may never be totally done with it - but I hope that she's to the point where resentment is not an issue. Re: MC, no we are not, we have worked very hard at communicating between us and feel that we have been and are successful. MC has always been an option for either of us to invoke if the need is felt. I'm more than willing to go, I have suspected though that IC for me may be more appropriate.

Yes I did have an EA, can't hide from that, but I'm not sure any relationship dynamics I learned from my parents had anything directly to do with it - indirectly yeah probably but like Runs like Dog said there's a whole plethora of Freudian compulsions there. The most direct link I suspect is the pattern I learned that led to me treating my wife more like a child than an equal. That in turn led to her not being able to meet all of my emotional needs because I had marginalized her as my wife. I didn't realize any of this had happened and when my AP showed up in my life and responded to me emotionally as my equal I was taken by surprise at the emotional hole she exposed in me and responded by drawing closer to her and further from my wife. Everyone is a product of their experiences and parents and upbringing are a huge part of that but I can't lay any fault for my behavior at the feet of my parents. In many ways they are now doing me a favor in that I have an example of what I don't want to be to help me identify mistakes before I make them.