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post #31 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 02:39 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Yep.
Some want to call it a drug.....my old lady called it a band aid.
My wife said the exact thing in counseling. The "band aid" I later found out is a term that MC are taught regarding affairs.

Pure mumbo-jumbo...


I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying... Andy, Shawshank Redemption.
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post #32 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 03:31 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

@Vinnydee : Admittedly, you're talking about 20+ years ago... when cheating was far easier to get away with and your wife was more likely more dependent on YOU.

Once caught cheating which is easier to be caught nowadays (and easier to hide at the same time) - the cheater has two choices : continue telling lies and partial truths or tell the WHOLE truth.

I can kind of understand the "old days" of having a stupid "oops moment" like getting drunk and stupid and giving someone a blow job and nobody will ever find out. I can see letting that one go, if that person never ever ever did it again. But thats not the same as an affair - which is continued deception & cheating. Once found out and the cheater wants to really CHANGE -then that person has to be 100% honest and actually do make changes.

Hell, my own mother got a sense, saw something of my WW and the OM do something - but wasn't sure. But she didn't want to tell me about it for the wrong reasons. Because she saw things I didn't two months before we had our blow-out. That bit of information would have changed how I would have handled things. Oh well.

I'll stand by the statement of Pros and those on TAM: once caught - tell the truth, period. Both the WS and the BS.
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post #33 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 03:51 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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same thing with my sister. MArried a year, he died in a plane crash, she found his love letters a couple months later. Confronted OW, she admitted it. Awful.
Ugh.
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Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #34 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-05-2016, 03:57 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

Forget about all the other BS (my SO would be crushed if they found out I cheated, I don't want to hurt them, etc...) if you cheated you were willing to pass along an STD (something that can not only impact your SOs health permanently but also impact their ability to get into other relationships if need be). Not telling them you gambled with their health is just pure cowardice.
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post #35 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 06:49 PM
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Forget about all the other BS (my SO would be crushed if they found out I cheated, I don't want to hurt them, etc...) if you cheated you were willing to pass along an STD (something that can not only impact your SOs health permanently but also impact their ability to get into other relationships if need be). Not telling them you gambled with their health is just pure cowardice.
If you are the WS and you are attempting to R after ending the A, couldn't you just abstain from sex for 6 months while you are working on yourself in the marriage?
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post #36 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 07:57 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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If you are the WS and you are attempting to R after ending the A, couldn't you just abstain from sex for 6 months while you are working on yourself in the marriage?
Well, if the WS doesn't want to give away they are cheating, they may try to act normal in their marriage which could mean continuing to have sex with the BS. I would not trust a WS with using logic such as "better not touch the BS b/c I could have an STD"
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post #37 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 08:46 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Having not told for close to 3 years, I did not tell #1) because I didn’t want to hurt him. That part IS true. I couldn’t live with what I did, I didn’t want him to have that pain. But #2) because it would end my marriage and I couldn’t face that.

So yes, selfishness.
I hope you don't see this post as an attack on your character since I know that you now see how selfish your motives were back then, but your post perfectly illustrates in my mind why WS who claim they are remorseful and yet plan on taking it to their grave are only fooling themselves and I just wanted to use it as a jumping off point for my thoughts on the subject.

It's both sickening and sad to read posts from the WS who are still actively engaging in the cover up and their attempts to ease their own conscience with overstated(and sometimes nonexistent) altruistic motives. WS who refuse to confess almost universally claim that they don't want to hurt their BS and I believe some of them are sincere when they say that, but very few of them will acknowledge that the underlying motive for their lying is just self interest(keeping their marriage, image, job etc.) more so than any concern they may have for their BS well being.

My question to them is usually this "Why now are you so concerned and willing to be the martyr, where was this overwhelming concern for your BS while you were committing adultery?" I simply don't believe in their newly found moral compass since if they truly had changed to such a degree that their main focus is now their BS welfare, even if it comes at their expense, then being honest and transparent with their BS would be a given. You don't repeatedly lie to somebody you love more than yourself.

There can be genuine shame, guilt and sadness without confession, but there can be no repentance. Repentance means tuning around and going in the opposite direction of the path that you've been on, if you're still actively lying and deceiving your spouse then you have not repented at all. (Not you specifically LH.)

There are so many valid reasons for telling the truth, but each one of them pales in comparison to the simple fact that every person deserves to make their own life decisions with all of the cards on the table. Just think of all the different choices a BS might have made in their life if they only knew that their spouse had cheated on them. How many BS would never have moved to that new town, or taken that particular job, or given up that particular friendship if they weren't being left in the dark about their own marriage. Each major life decision they made while under the false assumption that they had a marriage based on love and honesty was in actuality the WS robbing them of their own volition.

The truly reprehensible cases I've seen(other than paternity fraud) are when the WS guilts their oblivious BS into marital counseling. Imagine the hubris it takes for a cheater to sit there and double team their BS with the counselor, going over just about everything the BS has ever done wrong, every perceived slight against the WS all while knowing what they've done to them. I've seen multiple WS who claim to be remorseful for their affair and yet deny their BS the truth while making them jump through hoops to "win" them back while the BS is completely unaware that they're now competing with the AP's "ghost".
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post #38 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 10:40 AM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Originally Posted by Vinnydee View Post
The reason is that the one confessing is being selfish. He or she wants to get rid of their guilt by rocking their spouse's world in a negative way. Even psychologist do not recommend telling your spouse and why do you feel that you are correct? Did you ever tell your spouse that you cheated? I did and she went from happy housewife to a suspicious wife whose stomach would knot up every time I was late or went away on business trips. You can forgive but you never can forget. How do you believe someone who just admitted to you that they are capable of lying? How do you believe that the reasons for them cheating will never happen again and that if she feels like she is being taken for granted, her solution will be to cheat again. BTW, a person's past behavior is a pretty good indicator of their future behavior.
Illogical.

One of the reasons for an adulterous person to disclose the affair would presumably be to help them ensure that an affair does not happen again if they reconcile.

It is also not selfish -- most people seek to avoid pain, and disclosing is painful. That's what drives the continued lying -- to avoid that pain, and avoid the possability of losing the relationship and the reputational impact.

This is a spectacularly weak arguement.

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I do not know you credentials but there is no upside to telling your spouse except your own relief of guilt. He or she does not need to know. We do not tell our spouses everything we do that will make them feel bad or sad. My wife was going crazy worrying if I would cheat again that she actually asked her girlfriend to have sex with me and then moved her into our home so that I did not have to stray to have sex with another woman. It worked and worked well but not many wives will do that. The point is that telling my wife changed our relationship. Just the other night she reminded me that I cheated on her. That happened 45 years ago. You can forgive but never forget. Do you tell you kids that there is no Santa Clause because you should not lie to them? Let's see, would I rather live my life happily with my wife or have her tell me that she found another man sexier or better than me and is sorry for doing so. I think ignorance really is bliss and by sparing your spouse the lifelong problems that will result by telling them to cheat simply because the guilt is eating you up is not only selfish but servers no purpose whatsoever. Do you think the spouse is going to be happy after being told? Do you think he/she will view their spouse in the same way. Ya think that the spouse will not feel anxious and jealous when his wife is gone for a few hours or on a business trip?
How about giving her the opportunity to decide if she needs to get an STD test?

How about giving her the opportunity to decide if you're still the right person for her?

How about giving her the opportunity to help ensure that the causes and conditions for the affair don't happen again?

This is an immature and irrational arguement that you've made.

Quote:
My first thought when I was told is that once a cheater, always a cheater, because that is what I saw happening with my friends. Turns out that I was right. My ex married the guy she cheated on me with and then cheated on him for 20 years before leaving him to marry her girlfriend. I also dated cheating wives and almost all of them had told their husbands or were caught and went into the speech about never doing it again speech. Some also made their husbands feel that it was their fault for ignoring some need they had which instead of telling him about, felt that banging his best friend was the proper way to treat her problem.

If you cheat and feel guilty, just suck it up and resolve never to cheat again. That is much harder to do than take your guilt on dump it on your spouse to deal with.
Again, irrational. First you say 'once a cheater, always a cheater,' then you say 'suck it up and don't do it again and keep lying about it.'

These two cannot be reconciled within the same framework. This is a non sequitur.
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post #39 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 10:54 AM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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I don't agree with this totally, but there is some validity to this statement. There are those who confess to clean their soul. It's done out of selfishness, to make the confessor feel better. It's not loving. It's not caring. It's dumping a stinky bucket of dirt.

Every situation is not the same and I don't believe that there is one answer. Do I think that honesty is the best policy? Yes. Some people may need to save that confession for when they feel safe, such as talking in front of a counselor, when the reasons can be hashed out, when it can be dealt with.

Funny, I have been told by many a person that if I chose to have an affair, it would be justified. Why? Because my wife has withheld sex from me for over a decade. But even that is not a justification to cheating. It is likely a justification for divorce, but not to cheat. Once again, honesty is the best policy.. and so is communication.
If you don't feel the physically safe enough to tell your spouse you're having sex with someone else, then you should have divorced them long ago.

In your situation, you should have had a critical conversation with your wife 9.7 years ago. It should have gone like this:
Wife, you get to pick:
A. Divorce.
B. I get to sleep with other women.
C. We start to have sex.

I prefer c, but will not accept
D. I will be celibate forever because you won't have sex with me.
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post #40 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 11:32 AM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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My wife said the exact thing in counseling. The "band aid" I later found out is a term that MC are taught regarding affairs.

Pure mumbo-jumbo...

My wife is a clinical psychologist. Through her I have been acquainted with many other psychologists, clinical social workers, LMFT, etc. I can only think of maybe 2 who were still married to their first spouse at the time I knew them (and one was a young couple in their mid 20's). Most are divorced. A few are in a second or third marriage.

People don't generally become a psychologist or counselor accidentally. They have some underlying motivation. It isn't an easy path into the profession. Many have childhood traumas or grew up with seriously dysfunctional families. From my observations, infidelity within the ranks of counselors'/therapists' marriages is higher than average.

Psychology is a new field, and not a hard science, especially related to "normal" psychology such as dealing with marriages (as compared to dealing with schizophrenia, bipolar, etc). Most marriage therapists were taught by those who kind of invented MC. And those people grew up and were trained in a very different culture where infidelity was a big stigma. It could seriously affect one's entire career. A woman could be ostracized socially whether she was the WS or the OW.

The traditional approach of ICs to tell cheaters to not confess is based on all that baggage and history in the profession. The standard approach of MCs to rugsweep and work on fixing bad dynamics in the marriage is similarly based on that baggage and history.

When it comes to any issue within a relationship other than infidelity, the professional advice is to be honest. Professionals should be looking at why they have this inconsistency.

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post #41 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:43 PM
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I think the main question is do you withhold information that is hurtful/disappointing to a spouse? Does it make a difference whether withholding it temporarily or forever?

Examples:
Yes you look fat in those pants.
I forgot to pay that bill.
I got a speeding ticket.
Wasting time online instead of getting housework done.
Telling a spouse that is horrible with money management that the account is empty, when really there is money available.
Medical diagnosis that is not good, but may change.
Family members you can't stand.
Vasectomy/tubal ligation.
Clinic visit for VD.
Fired from job.
Spending money on things the spouse wouldn't like.
Shopping addiction.
Smoking/drinking.
Gambling.
Playing video games instead of watching the kids.

Last edited by MAJDEATH; 03-07-2016 at 01:48 PM.
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post #42 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:56 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
I think the main question is do you withhold information that is hurtful/disappointing to a spouse? Does it make a difference whether withholding it temporarily or forever?

Examples:
Yes you look fat in those pants.
I forgot to pay that bill.
I got a speeding ticket.
Wasting time online instead of getting housework done.
Telling a spouse that is horrible with money management that the account is empty, when really there is money available.
Medical diagnosis that is not good, but may change.
Family members you can't stand.
Vasectomy/tubal ligation.
Clinic visit for VD.
Fired from job.
Spending money on things the spouse wouldn't like.
Shopping addiction.
Smoking/drinking.
Gambling.
Playing video games instead of watching the kids.
"No those pants don't make you look fat" is always acceptable. It's probably the only lie you can ever be justified in telling your SO lol.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #43 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 01:57 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Originally Posted by MAJDEATH View Post
I think the main question is do you withhold information that is hurtful/disappointing to a spouse? Does it make a difference whether withholding it temporarily or forever?

Examples:
Yes you look fat in those pants.
I forgot to pay that bill.
I got a speeding ticket.
Wasting time online instead of getting housework done.
Telling a spouse that is horrible with money management that the account is empty, when really there is money available.
Medical diagnosis that is not good, but may change.
Family members you can't stand.
Vasectomy/tubal ligation.
Clinic visit for VD.
Fired from job.
Spending money on things the spouse wouldn't like.
Shopping addiction.
Smoking/drinking.
Gambling.
Playing video games instead of watching the kids.
If your spouse is an adult, you don't get to decide these things for them.

If your spouse is not an adult, you should probably be in jail.

I question your motives.
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post #44 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:10 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
"No those pants don't make you look fat" is always acceptable. It's probably the only lie you can ever be justified in telling your SO lol.
You forget "That tastes good" or "It is perfectly normal for chicken to be that dry"
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post #45 of 159 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:16 PM
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Re: Why truth of cheating is better than not being told

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Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
You forget "That tastes good" or "It is perfectly normal for chicken to be that dry"
Oh God, I forgot that one! A girl once cooked me a meal and it wasn't very good. When she asked me how I liked it I said "It was edible."

Hell hath no fury...

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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