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post #136 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 10:33 PM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by sidney2718 View Post
Perhaps it is the response of the TAM regulars that keeps them from posting here. For a typical example look at EI's thread:

how-much-detail

Given that we know how it all worked out, read the vicious attacks on EI. A measure of her strength is that she did not stop posting on TAM.
Perhaps those" attacks" played a role in her , finally, accepting full responsibility for the cheating. She seemed pretty entrenched in justifying, initially.

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post #137 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-13-2016, 11:32 PM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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I have nothing against them.

If you check the link, you will discover that nearly everything she posted is gone. None of her own threads remain. I could not have made up such a story. It was written about in the banned members thread, though I do see that she is not banned.

In any case, I merely wanted to point out that comment that brought them up as a couple in reconciliation, listed them as an example of a rare reconciliation. My reply was that there marriage was not conventional.

I don't believe I mixed them up with other posters. But if I did I will certain apologize.

Returning to the topic, an example of an imperfect reconciliation would be Racer. He stayed with his wife but he never found her capable of genuine remorse. He stayed in any case. I think he felt irritation and discomfort.

Another example of imperfect reconciliation was the music teacher married to the art teacher. She had an affair with a student. She trickle truthed him and was in false R for period. She was sorry and I believe she genuinely wanted to have her old marriage back but it was gone. If they stayed together I hope that they managed to reconnect. Her husband was also on TAM.

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post #138 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 12:20 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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She's one helluva woman in my book.

Thank you very much, 3putt.

ETA- And B1 is one helluva man as well.

Yes, he is!!!
It's almost 4 years later and I still feel like I'm living a dream with B1. His goodness, mercy, compassion, and ability to not only forgive me, but to love me the most, when I was the least deserving of his love, just astounds me. He continues to step up every single day, to be the best possible husband and father that he can be. He went from being a shell of a man, due to his, then, Testosterone deficiency, to being the most incredible man I have ever known.

I don't know if our situation is really that rare, or different. I often believe that it isn't, but that too many can't withstand the initial TAM Welcoming Committee, so their stories are never fully shared. A decades long marriage cannot be summed up in just a few posts. I know that had B1 not started posting here within a few days after I made my first post that I would not have stuck around. It was just too difficult. Posting our story here, together, as it was unfolding, helped bring us back together. Though our marriage was in complete shambles, it created an us against the establishment type of dynamic.

For me, (after the first few confusing and difficult months for both of us) doing the heavy lifting, making amends, and working to make B1 feel safe, and able to trust me, again, wasn't a terrible burden, nor should it have been. It wasn't something that he had to constantly push me to do. If a BS feels like their fWS isn't "getting it," or isn't at least trying to give them what they need to heal, then they need to just stop and walk away. If a fWS genuinely wants to help their spouse heal, if they are genuinely remorseful for their choices, and for pain that their BS is in because of their actions, then they won't have to be cooerced into making amends. They will desire to do it.


It was emotionally draining, at first, for both of us, but the rewards have been beautiful. During that time, we became closer than we had ever been in our entire 3 decade long relationship. And, we continue to grow closer every day. Loving B1 is the easiest thing I've ever done in my entire life. Being loved by B1 is the greatest blessing I have ever received.

BTW, I want to give a little shout out to some of my favs on this thread. It feels like a mini-reunion. Bandit, sidney, 3putt, larry.gray, Philat, and Gus, you guys are some of the very best of TAM. Your collective wisdom here is invaluable. B1 and I both count ourselves as beneficiaries.

Take care,
~ EI
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post #139 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 12:29 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

Unfortunately EI you are an exception not usually the rule.

Glad you're doing well
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post #140 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 01:57 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Perhaps those" attacks" played a role in her , finally, accepting full responsibility for the cheating. She seemed pretty entrenched in justifying, initially.
The "attacks" were not helpful for either of us. The tremendous amount of guidance, along with compassion, that we received from B1's Reconciliation thread gave us both the tools, as well as the support, that we needed to survive, then thrive. 2 x 4's aren't the appropriate tools if reconciliation is the desired goal of both parties, and for all of the right reasons. At least, not in my opinion. It sounds very cliche to say this on TAM, but our marriage truly was over before my A began, and we both knew it. I had worked very hard to save our marriage long before my A began, but B1 was not able to respond to my efforts, at that time, due to his (then) extremely low levels of Testosterone. Eventually, I gave up, told him of my plans to divorce him within the next two years, and told him that I would not wait for love if an opportunity came my way. B1 remained detached. And, just to be clear, I had not begun my A, nor did I have anyone in particular in mind. I had not yet even been in contact with the man who would soon become my AP. What I did not do was tell B1 when my A began. I had finally become detached, myself, and I no longer felt any respect or love for him, and I didn't feel a sense of obligation to welcome any potential unwanted conflict from B1, whose only genuine interest in me, at that point, was in maintaining the status quo. Reading this now is like reading about someone else. It was me, but it was me at the lowest point of my life.

The early "attacks" on Tam were pretty brutal and nearly drove me away from here on more than one occasion. You won't find them in our old threads because the mods had to clean them up on multiple occasions. It isn't a real popular notion around here, but I didn't need to be attacked, I needed to be heard, to be understood, something that B1 was either unwilling or incapable of doing before his treatment for low T.

When you have both spouses on TAM, sharing their story, the same story, and they didn't come here to beat up on one another, but instead to find help for themselves, as well as for guidance on how to best help their spouse best get through the situation, then it's seems that the "attacking" is for the benefit of the attacker only. If we truly wish to help people, then we need to be willing to meet them where they are, and not where we think they should be.

I hope my responses have given you some clarity regarding your comments to my posts, Maxo. Our story is quite lengthy, and it has been told so many times on TAM, that I hesitate to keep re-telling it. But, when a new poster comes here and asks me questions, I can't really suggest that they go read through thousands of our old posts.
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post #141 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 04:33 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by larry.gray View Post
It is OMyGoditsJoe and OMyGoditsElaine. More so her that was pulling that stunt.

At the same time that happened, Mr and Mrs Adams were temporarily banned. They are both nudists. They had a few photos in albums that included non-sexual nudity. The photos were removed and they got a time out.

After that they announced they were leaving. A little over that event and a lot that they felt they got help here, but it was no longer helpful to remain.
Why would they have photo albums of non-sexual nudity on TAM?

Mrs John Adams wrote more than her husband and I think she counts a valuable contributor to TAM. She was bridge between wayward and betrayed spouses. She was a thoughtful person who addressed difficult questions.

I assume that Mr. J Adams allowed her to put of the nude photos to give her so-called ego kibbles. Maybe he liked hearing people praise his wife for her looks.

Also, EI is a great TAM contributor. And I think she is esteemed for having helped many even when she wrongly became the target of BH anger.
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post #142 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 04:39 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by sidney2718 View Post
Perhaps it is the response of the TAM regulars that keeps them from posting here. For a typical example look at EI's thread:
Good point @sidney2718
For a more balanced post, my second sentence should have read:
"On TAM, in the vast majority of cases when WS 'crawl back', they seem to be doing it for self-serving purposes. . . but then maybe WS who are 100% remorseful don't post on here because they may be subject to vicious attacks."
I read through EI's thread.
@EI you are an amazing lady. . . and to have stayed on TAM despite the vicious attacks. Sheesh! Your H is an amazing guy too.
Huge kudos to you both for R.
I hope there are many untold stories like yours and I wish you and your H all the best.

"We just kissed".

Last edited by Moonshadow; 03-14-2016 at 04:53 AM. Reason: typos etc
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post #143 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:34 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by EI View Post
The "attacks" were not helpful for either of us. The tremendous amount of guidance, along with compassion, that we received from B1's Reconciliation thread gave us both the tools, as well as the support, that we needed to survive, then thrive. 2 x 4's aren't the appropriate tools if reconciliation is the desired goal of both parties, and for all of the right reasons. At least, not in my opinion. It sounds very cliche to say this on TAM, but our marriage truly was over before my A began, and we both knew it. I had worked very hard to save our marriage long before my A began, but B1 was not able to respond to my efforts, at that time, due to his (then) extremely low levels of Testosterone. Eventually, I gave up, told him of my plans to divorce him within the next two years, and told him that I would not wait for love if an opportunity came my way. B1 remained detached. And, just to be clear, I had not begun my A, nor did I have anyone in particular in mind. I had not yet even been in contact with the man who would soon become my AP. What I did not do was tell B1 when my A began. I had finally become detached, myself, and I no longer felt any respect or love for him, and I didn't feel a sense of obligation to welcome any potential unwanted conflict from B1, whose only genuine interest in me, at that point, was in maintaining the status quo. Reading this now is like reading about someone else. It was me, but it was me at the lowest point of my life.

The early "attacks" on Tam were pretty brutal and nearly drove me away from here on more than one occasion. You won't find them in our old threads because the mods had to clean them up on multiple occasions. It isn't a real popular notion around here, but I didn't need to be attacked, I needed to be heard, to be understood, something that B1 was either unwilling or incapable of doing before his treatment for low T.

When you have both spouses on TAM, sharing their story, the same story, and they didn't come here to beat up on one another, but instead to find help for themselves, as well as for guidance on how to best help their spouse best get through the situation, then it's seems that the "attacking" is for the benefit of the attacker only. If we truly wish to help people, then we need to be willing to meet them where they are, and not where we think they should be.

I hope my responses have given you some clarity regarding your comments to my posts, Maxo. Our story is quite lengthy, and it has been told so many times on TAM, that I hesitate to keep re-telling it. But, when a new poster comes here and asks me questions, I can't really suggest that they go read through thousands of our old posts.
I am not the type to beat up on another. But, I must say that it is my personal belief that cheating constitutes severe emotional abuse and is never the right response to marital dissatisfaction. Ther are honorable,non abusive options.
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post #144 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:41 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by Maxo View Post
Perhaps those" attacks" played a role in her , finally, accepting full responsibility for the cheating. She seemed pretty entrenched in justifying, initially.

Nope.... just a$$hols being a$$hols. Nothing else. I'm a BS and have been a subject of the same treatment at TAM.

As far as EI is concerned.... her BH is very fortunate that she was gracious enough to give him a second chance. I know that I wouldn't be so understanding if I were her.

Samuel Beckett - You're on Earth. There's no cure for that......
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post #145 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Originally Posted by Maxo View Post
Perhaps those" attacks" played a role in her , finally, accepting full responsibility for the cheating. She seemed pretty entrenched in justifying, initially.
She was foggy.

E1 and B1's story was a bit different from the average tale of marital discord we see here on TAM. B1 was by his own accounts a sh!tty husband and E1, while very angry and a bit defensive when she first came on board, did eventually own her sh!t (maybe not to be degree most of us would like) and worked through her own issues.

They seem to have come to a parity with each other now and are working through a pretty successful R.

To each their own. What they are doing is working for them and I think we should support it.
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post #146 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 09:40 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Nope.... just a$$hols being a$$hols. Nothing else. I'm a BS and have been a subject of the same treatment at TAM.

As far as EI is concerned.... her BH is very fortunate that she was gracious enough to give him a second chance. I know that I wouldn't be so understanding if I were her.
I was not around when that thread was going, So, I was not privy to all the posts. But, as another poster mentioned, , she was foggy and, it seemed to me justifying. I guess if I had cheated, I would cut my spouse a lot of slack for past behavior, as I would view my own as equally egregious.
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post #147 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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VH and TeddieG, I'm so sorry for all you've both been through. I count it as a blessing that my ex chose the OW over me and walked away to her. Reconciliation is hard as nails, even under circumstances like MattMatt's or MountainRunner's, where the WS sincerely wants to save the marriage and is truly remorseful and transparent. False reconciliation is like doubling down on the worst thing (aside from physical abuse) you could possibly do to someone you supposedly loved enough to marry.
Thank you, @Nomorebeans. It sure kept my hopes up and made detaching really hard. But I'm quickly getting over him now. While I don't hate him, many days I feel as if I do, so I guess that helps me get over things. Even so, I am angry he wouldn't talk to me about what was bothering him. I've met a nice man that I only see at a local watering hole, where we talk and get to know each other, no dates yet, and don't want to. We were together 11 years before HE decided HE wanted us to get married, and two years later he was cheating. I'll never understand it. It just is what it is.

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post #148 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 10:13 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

Well, that's been my story. My WS immediately tucked his tail and came home when his A was discovered. Not sure why our story is different but we have been married for 30 years/2 adult children. He has admittedly dealt with other women behind my back for 8 years, I believe it was a lot longer. He also confessed to flirting, texting, and phone calls to other women during that time. Anyway, now that he is back, I believe he has been no contact and hardly goes anywhere without me. He has been actively showing and professing his love for me the last 12 months like no other time in our marriage.
He has also confessed and come to terms with being a narcissist. He tells me he loves me, he's attracted to me, enjoys sex with me and wants to spend the rest of our lives together. Not sure what to make of it, but he wants sex all the time. I have been deeply hurt but I have not tried to persuade his feelings for me. I do know that his behavior now is in vast contradiction to his behavior during the affair.
I don't know what to believe, but we are still working on recovery, including counseling.

Still hyper-vigilant, untrusting, and deeply wounded.
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post #149 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 11:03 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Why would they have photo albums of non-sexual nudity on TAM?
LW, just to reiterate for accuracy: none of those photos were on TAM. They were in private albums on a file-sharing site (I forget which one).
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post #150 of 594 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 11:14 AM
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Re: Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"

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Also, EI is a great TAM contributor. And I think she is esteemed for having helped many even when she wrongly became the target of BH anger.
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Originally Posted by Moonshadow View Post
Good point @sidney2718
For a more balanced post, my second sentence should have read:
"On TAM, in the vast majority of cases when WS 'crawl back', they seem to be doing it for self-serving purposes. . . but then maybe WS who are 100% remorseful don't post on here because they may be subject to vicious attacks."
I read through EI's thread.
@EI you are an amazing lady. . . and to have stayed on TAM despite the vicious attacks. Sheesh! Your H is an amazing guy too.
Huge kudos to you both for R.
I hope there are many untold stories like yours and I wish you and your H all the best.

Thank you both, very much. I never looked ahead in my life and imagined receiving praise in relation to being a fWS. I never imagined being a WS, at all. It's not a label that I wear with pride. It will always be my greatest personal regret. I would strongly encourage anyone who is considering divorce, or even in the process of getting a one, to wait until the ink is dry on their divorce papers before getting involved with someone else. If, for any reason, you become involved in a situation that you wouldn't feel comfortable discussing with your parents, your siblings, your best friend, your co-workers, your neighbors, and most of all your spouse and your children, chances are, you shouldn't be in that situation.

You can't compartmentalize away your conscience, it follows you everywhere. You can turn away from your poor choices and choose not to be that person any longer, but you can't undo those choices, and you can't control the lasting effects that they might have on others. My therapist once told me that, on average, infidelity will have a negative impact on approximately 40 people. That seemed unrealistic until he helped me add it up. In our marriage, my decision to have an A, upon my husband's discovery, had an almost immediate and negative impact on at least 28 family members and close friends, who were all instrumental in helping us pick up the shattered pieces of our lives. And, that number doesn't even include TAM's Reconciliation thread 'regulars,' who were truly a godsend throughout the first year of our recovery.

When a BH, who is in obvious pain, approaches me on TAM with their questions, I try my best to answer them with compassion, but most importantly, with honesty, which can be difficult for a BH to hear, and can quite understandably rub some of them the wrong way. I'm never suggesting that the circumstances of my marriage mirror the circumstances of others, I'm merely sharing my story because it's the only one I have to share. The answers aren't pretty, because infidelity isn't pretty, but if I were to sugar coat my responses in order to spare their feelings, what would be the point of responding to them, at all?

My mindset shortly before, during, and in the first couple of months after my A, was far different than it is now. B1 and I openly shared our feelings on TAM along the way. I posted my first thread 2 1/2 weeks after D-Day, when I was still very much in the fog. B1 posted his first thread 2 or 3 days later. Some days were extremely difficult for us and we shared it, some days we were not sure that we could make it work, and we shared it. Gradually, we began having some "okay" days, and we shared it. After a couple of months, we started to have some hope, happiness, and anticipation for our future, and we shared it.

The Reconciliation thread was a thread where both, BS's and WS's were offered practical advice, from everyone else's collective experience, as well as a compassionate heart. We didn't attack WS's or BS's who didn't conform to the TAM doctrine. We met them where they were, and as a result, we were all able to gain a tremendous amount of unfiltered insight from one another. The R thread was more instrumental in our recovery than our actual therapist was, although I do think he was, and remains, a very good counselor.

When a BS on TAM chooses to repeatedly come at me in anger, I respond with less compassion and more defensiveness. I believe that I owe my husband, and our children, (who are all grown) my humility, my compassion, and my loyalty, but I do not owe my humility to an angry BS, who wants to take shots at me because they didn't get what they needed from their own WS. I didn't betray them, I am not their WS, nor am I responsible for their WS's actions. If I allow an angry BS to take their anger out on me, then it can begin to have a negative impact on me and my interactions with my own family, which I cannot allow. To suggest that all WS's are motivated for the same reasons is as inaccurate as suggesting that all BS's are exactly the same. Every individual, and every marriage has it's own unique set of circumstances. If this forum is truly interested in helping people cope with infidelity, then we need to be willing to meet them where they are when they arrive.

B1 and I were some of the lucky ones. We were able to benefit from so many of the wise and caring TAM members who were actively posting at the time. Many of of you are still here. Unfortunately, there are always a few posters in CWI who have no interest in helping any WS cope with infidelity, unless said WS is willing to stick to a very specific but, sometimes, inaccurate script.
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