Need some of that expert TAM wisdom - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #1 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

I came across this site a few months ago, and I've been following a number of the posts to see what kind of advice is given. I have to say I've been extremely impressed so far, and thus I'd like to tap into some of this wisdom if at all possible.

Here's my situation. I've been with my wife for 17 yrs now, and we have two kids (12 & 10 yrs old). My wife is a very beautiful woman (looks like Blake Lively), and for the first 10 yrs or so I would say our sex life was great. I don't say she's beautiful to come across as ****y or arrogant, but to say that more then likely she's being hit on.

I feel like trust is earned, and one of the reasons why I married my wife (after dating her for over 3 yrs) was she had proven herself to be trustworthy. The last thing I ever want to be in, is a relationship where I don't trust the woman and I turn into a detective.

Maybe I'm wrong doing this, but I've never been one to ask her about men hitting on her (and she certainly doesn't bring it up either). She's actively involved on Facebook, and again I've never asked her if anyone has made overtures to her there or not.

My wife is a SAHM, and for the past 4-5 yrs we've scheduled it so that we have alone time twice a week (sex). Over the last couple of yrs, my wife doesn't want to kiss me anymore, and being with me the two times a week is now basically a chore. Get it over as quickly as possible. I've tried countless times to talk to her about this, but it goes on deaf ears. I work out, eat good, and haven't let myself go physically.

She's in her late 40"s, and I don't know if this could be attributed to menopause coming on? She never lets her cell phone stray too far, and she has a pass code on it (which I find strange nor do I have the code). She also has a code on her laptop.

I have no idea if something is going on behind my back, but I'd like to know. She volunteers at the kids school a few hrs a week, and she helps out a little bit watching my parents a few times a week as well (my mom has cancer and my dad is in his early 90's). Besides this she has a lot of free time during the day M-F.

How do I go about doing this? I am planning on going to the store to get a VAR, and will put it in her car. If I put it under her car seat won't it start recording if she turns the radio on? If so won't the VAR fill up real quick? How much recording time do these things have, and is it something that I would need to be checking every day?

As for her cell phone (again which she never lets go of) I have no way of getting into it. She just upgraded her iPhone to another iPhone, and she gave the old one to my son (he uses it to look at youtube etc). Would I be able to take this old phone, and be able to get old texts off of it? If so how?

I use a different cell carrier then her. She uses AT&T (cell), and the bill comes to her. I have my land line on AT&T as well (under my name), and I could tell her that I'm now bundling these things together and thus her cell phone would now be on my account and thus I would have access to her phone records (and her texts as well, correct)? If so is it just the text #s, or could I actually see what was texted?

I have no idea if something is going on now, but I'd also like to see if something went down in the past as well. As I said previously the last thing I want to be is a detective, but something just doesn't seem right and I want to know what is going on (or what went down in the past). If I went to her directly with my concerns she'd just deny it.

How do I go about doing this?

Could certainly use some advice on this, and thanks for taking the time to read this.

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post #2 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:29 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Paging @GusPolinski.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #3 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:31 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

You are effectively in the dark, OP.

I find it interesting that you do not already have a joint cell account. Has it always been this way?

Ultimately, that saves money in the long run, and you may just do as you said and approach her over merging the accounts.

I paged Gus on the last post. I am certain he can help you with recovering information from the old phone if it is possible.

How tech savvy is your wife?

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #4 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:45 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Look Here: Standard Evidence Post

Don’t change anything or let on that you’re suspicious at all at least until you have monitoring methods in place. Then let her know that you're suspicious.

Ideally you use the monitoring methods to get concrete proof. Never reveal what the monitoring methods are. Make her think that friends saw her or you hired a PI.

With your monitoring methods in place reveal that you’re suspicious but hold your best proof in reserve. Listen to the fallout. She will want to discuss it with her girlfriends or warn the other man (OM).

The best outcome is for you to hear her tell a girlfriend that nothing is going on and you’re crazy.

Last edited by Graywolf2; 04-14-2016 at 10:27 AM.
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post #5 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:57 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Insisting on a joint cell account is the first step. Then you can look to see what numbers she's calling/texting, how often and when. You could use a web service to try to identify unknown numbers (it's not that expensive). I'd do this before a VAR because that information from the cell records will help you decide how to use it best, but that's just me.

There are ways to get around her computer pass code, but I'd suggest that you find an excuse to use her computer and ask for her code. That would be easier. Then I would put key logger software on it when she's not around.

You can get plenty of help with all of this here; and if you follow the surveillance advice there's an excellent chance you'll catch her - if she's cheating. Here's hoping she's not.

If you don't find anything after a few weeks - then I'd insist that she share all her pass codes with you going forward. Transparency is a reasonable expectation in a marriage.

Keep posting.
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post #6 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:12 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Yeah, I'd say that it's time to review all 'systems' (bills, insurance, electronics, etc.) and make sure the family is operating as efficiently as possible, and then decide to combine the phone bills.
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post #7 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:17 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

I wouldn't alert her in any way that you are being detective. And don't feel bad about doing so. Your gut is telling you something may be amiss so you have no choice but to check it out or live with the unease.
Don't ask for passcodes etc.
I wouldn't even bundle the phone bill now.
The worst thing you can do now is have her suspect you're watching her because she will delete any evidence.

Did she always passcode her devices? Or is it only since you noticed the change in her?

With the VAR, I think it is also advised to buy a cheap set of earphones, plug them into it & cut off the lead. This is to prevent any beeps etc being heard by her.

Having physical access to her old phone is a bonus.
Everything should still be on there if it hasn't been backed-up since she stopped using it, even deleted texts.
Don't back it up!
Make sure to have the setting in iTunes set to, 'do not automatically back up the device/iPhone'.
You need some software, there are many out there, Wondershare Dr.Fone for iOS, iPhone Backup Extractor etc.

"We just kissed".
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post #8 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:21 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Was her iPhone backed up on the computer?

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
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post #9 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

There is very little to indicate she's cheating.

There is also very little reassurance that she's not.

It looks like you've been running this marriage with your hand off the tiller and now it's off course.

Put your hand back on the tiller.

My first blush read is that she's not attracted to you any more.

Are you in shape? Are you romancing her? Flirting with her? Is sex exciting and new or the same boring same old? Are you a good kisser?

Have you asked her if she's bored?

Have you asked her why her computer, phone, and Facebook are private?

Do you know what her fantasies are? Turn ons? Are you doing them?

Time to start leading your marriage.
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post #10 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.

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post #11 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:24 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Something is going on with her as she seems to be feeling quite distanced from you ie; that sex is now a chore to her and she no longer wants to even kiss you. Have you suggested marriage counseling to her for you both? What did she say about it? From what you posted, she isn't at all on the same page with her if you have tried to talk to her about the intimacy in your marriage. When a woman treats her husband this way then something serious is happening and you need to find out what it is. Another man, a mid-life crisis, questioning her life etc. The thing is the person she should be leaning on is you and she isn't doing that.

As you know from reading other posts here, guarding her cell phone with a code and not letting you have access to it is a big red flag. How about you ask to see her phone and she how she reacts?
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post #12 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:32 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.
I have a passcode on my computer and my phone. My son tends to use any electronic item in his vicinity and I don't like him messing with my stuff. My husband never said a word about it until recently, so I showed him my passcode for my computer and he just said, "What! I could never remember that!" I told him he could write it down, but he lost interest immediately after realizing it was complicated.

As far as sex drive, her not wanting to kiss you is not, imo, sex drive related. I wonder if she has some sort of anger issue with you. Has something happened that deeply offended her or made her feel unloved? Aside from checking up to see if there is someone else, it is important to start closely observing her and how she relates to you. It sounds like she's lost that emotional connection and needs to feel wanted and loved by you.

For more on my marriage philosophies check out the marriage section of my website:
The Feminine Review

Standard Evidence Thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-...ence-post.html
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post #13 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:38 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Given how "in the dark" you are w/ respect to your wife's devices, passwords, etc, I'd probably start w/ a VAR. I wouldn't worry about the radio; if she's talking on the phone, she'll turn it down. And unless she's driving for hours at a time, it shouldn't really fill up. That said, some of the Sony VARs do support micro SD cards for memory expansion.

Be sure to read @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread here in CWI for tips regarding VAR configuration and placement (Pro tip: use lithium batteries and lots of Velcro.)

Casually mention bundling your different ATT accounts in order to gauge your wife's reaction.

Have you mentioned marriage counseling to your wife? If not, do that, making sure to mention your dissatisfaction w/ what seems to be her rather perfunctory commitment to your sex life, and take note of her reaction.

Don't mention the ATT account bundling and MC within the same conversation. In fact, I'd probably wait at least 2-3 days after mentioning one before bringing up the other.

Maybe mention the account bundling after spending some time paying bills, or looking into a new phone for yourself, etc, so that the conversation seems organic. Along the same lines, maybe wait to mention MC until the day after the next time you have sex.

When your wife gave her old phone to your son, did she factory reset it first or did she just delete a bunch of stuff? Does he have his own iTunes/iCloud account, or does he have his own? Does he use the old phone as an iPod/media device, or does he use it as a phone? If you don't know the answer to these questions, DON'T ASK HER. Hell... don't ask him, either.

Random thoughts...

What kind of cell phone do YOU use?

What do you do for a living?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how tech savvy would you say you are? How about your wife?

Does your wife use a Windows or Mac laptop?
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post #14 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:43 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelievable View Post
I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.
The above is all true.

However, my guess is that she’s around 40 and that seems to be a very dangerous age even for happily married women.

Risk factors:
Empty nest or kids don’t need her as much anymore
Back to school or back to work
Limited number of sexual partners

This might be called a midlife crisis. They want to prove that they still have it before it’s gone. They are very susceptible to compliments and attention from other men. This is true even if their husband frequently tells them he loves them and how beautiful they are. This is because the husband is supposed to say those things and it counts much more if a stranger says them.

Has she lost weight or started to care more about her appearance?
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post #15 of 213 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: Need some of that expert TAM wisdom

I think it is a good idea to be vigilant, but let's not jump to conclusions that this is an affair. There really isn't much evidence at this point. Work on building attraction. Look up Athol Kay. He has some good books on 'gaming' your wife.
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