Whew... This is all really difficult to process. I've read a ton of the links and they are all well written, well thought out but the one thing that makes this different is that you all know (Have facts, admissions etc) of sexual affairs / emotional affairs. I know I could be having the same problem but I don't know for a fact that I do. I think moving forward assuming I do leads to serious fireworks. I think being in couples therapy is some kind of indication that she is interested in making "us" work. And btw she was the one who suggested it. I've got a date with a therapist (Who also does couples therapy) to talk one on one with about my fears and concerns. I'm really in no hurry to use the marital nuclear option.
I'm reconsidering the idea of a voice operated recorder. I guess knowing whats really going on is at least as important as knowing what to do when I have some facts. To be totally honest I think its mostly worry about what I could find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmayhem
Because the PA is a culmination of the EA. First, they've given their hearts to the OM in the EA, then the give their body in the PA. It's still an affair, either way. But for some, a PA makes the difference between R or D. My deal breaker is the PA.
It's embarassing to say the least. Which ever is less embarassing for you.
No it shouldn't. Doctor-Patient confidentiality and HIPA rules apply. They're used to that. Just like your doctor wouldn't be able to tell you about her medical history or even if she went to see him.
Very rarely have I ever seen a WS give full disclosure without any proof from the BS. It's usually when the BS has all the evidence that the WS can't TT their way out of it.
Yes it is, VERY. I thought my own fWW was the most honest person on earth and would never lie to me too. We survived my military career, all the shift work, deployments, etc, etc,. Yet in the 20th year of our marriage, all it took for her to cheat was reconnecting with an old HS boyfriend on facebook. Then I got the whole "I swear to God", "God is my witness", etc, denials. The evidence showed otherwise.
You need to get over this embrassment and denial, sooner, rather than later.
Whew... This is all really difficult to process. I've read a ton of the links and they are all well written, well thought out but the one thing that makes this different is that you all know (Have facts, admissions etc) of sexual affairs / emotional affairs. I know I could be having the same problem but I don't know for a fact that I do. I think moving forward assuming I do leads to serious fireworks. I think being in couples therapy is some kind of indication that she is interested in making "us" work. And btw she was the one who suggested it. I've got a date with a therapist (Who also does couples therapy) to talk one on one with about my fears and concerns. I'm really in no hurry to use the marital nuclear option.
I'm reconsidering the idea of a voice operated recorder. I guess knowing whats really going on is at least as important as knowing what to do when I have some facts. To be totally honest I think its mostly worry about what I could find out.
Because you have not done the digging to find out. You have gotten excellent advice on keyloggers, VARs etc. Use it. As for therapy, you can't counsel your way through issues that you don't know about.
Whew... This is all really difficult to process. I've read a ton of the links and they are all well written, well thought out but the one thing that makes this different is that you all know (Have facts, admissions etc) of sexual affairs / emotional affairs. I know I could be having the same problem but I don't know for a fact that I do. I think moving forward assuming I do leads to serious fireworks. I think being in couples therapy is some kind of indication that she is interested in making "us" work. And btw she was the one who suggested it. I've got a date with a therapist (Who also does couples therapy) to talk one on one with about my fears and concerns. I'm really in no hurry to use the marital nuclear option.
IC is fine, MC does no good while your WW is in the affair, and you won't know if she's still in the affair until you investigate. If you stay here long enough, you'll read enough stories of the WS lying during MC, lying to the MC, and lying to the BS during the session.
It's up to you what you want to do. Read other threads, get some perspective and experience. I'm outtie this thread and moving on to others who are more willing to move forward. The denial and fear is still strong in you. You most likely need to suffer a little more in limbo before gaining the strength to act decisively.
My sister is a marriage therapist and tells me that frequently she has one spouse tell her in private individual session that they are in an affair, yet they deny it in couples therapy. In the USA the therapist is prohibited from revealing anything said in private, so she cannot tell the betrayed spouse that his wife is lying right there in couples therapy! Really a @#$%y position to put a therapist in.
X-unknown, I understand that you want some kind of solid information on the affair. You may or many not get it. I think it is just as important to consider what your boundaries are outside of a physical affair. For example, are you willing to put up with partial trust? Do you need full complete open access to her electronic communications? What if she is still in an EA now? What if she starts acting secretive in the future, what will you accept?
It is too easy to zero in on the sex as the deal breaker. It leaves you in limbo when you don't know for sure. The other factors are really every bit as important in terms of being able to have a loving trusting strong marriage relationship.
Most important is to trust your gut and to not give in to fear.
IC is fine, MC does no good while your WW is in the affair, and you won't know if she's still in the affair until you investigate. If you stay here long enough, you'll read enough stories of the WS lying during MC, lying to the MC, and lying to the BS during the session.
It's up to you what you want to do. Read other threads, get some perspective and experience. I'm outtie this thread and moving on to others who are more willing to move forward. The denial and fear is still strong in you. You most likely need to suffer a little more in limbo before gaining the strength to act decisively.
Thor - I didn't know this about therapists not being able to "talk across the board" in couples therapy. I am thinking now about the suggestion that was made to make it truly "co" therapy. RIght now its her therapy for couples that I'm "invited to" I guess. Maybe the therapist is trying to find an angle to be allowed to fill me in? Or does it still work that way? Sheesh I'm sounding paranoid to myself right now.
To everyone I appreciate the advise (Honest) but I guess I'm not too keen on moving along faster and doing what you wished you had done or whatever. Am I freaked out? Damn straight. I think the problem is that we are not on the right page. I think that everyone is assuming that sex is the only deal breaker. For me (anyway) no! The Emotional Affair is right up there. This may sound totally chick like but if she had a one night stand with some random guy it would be awful but I think it could be solvable. The EA *And one that went into stealth mode when I said "This makes me really uncomfortable." That has me more uptight. So, for those who keep pestering me to put voice recorders under her seat or rewire her cell phone please stop. BTW maybe its the lack of "tone" in text but some of you guys are sounding really angry that I'm not acting the way you would or think I should. I'm sorry about your problems and how they turned out - whatever... but please f off. I don't need this.
I don't really have to find more "truth" to be uptight. It doesn't have to be "worse" to cross my line. Right now I think more bad news on this will (really) just make my head explode. Depression which is talked about as one of the stages is where I'm at and I'm talking the clinical kind *See a doctor get on some meds and do some talk therapy.
Getting a handle on that is my "plan" before I go forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
My sister is a marriage therapist and tells me that frequently she has one spouse tell her in private individual session that they are in an affair, yet they deny it in couples therapy. In the USA the therapist is prohibited from revealing anything said in private, so she cannot tell the betrayed spouse that his wife is lying right there in couples therapy! Really a @#$%y position to put a therapist in.
X-unknown, I understand that you want some kind of solid information on the affair. You may or many not get it. I think it is just as important to consider what your boundaries are outside of a physical affair. For example, are you willing to put up with partial trust? Do you need full complete open access to her electronic communications? What if she is still in an EA now? What if she starts acting secretive in the future, what will you accept?
It is too easy to zero in on the sex as the deal breaker. It leaves you in limbo when you don't know for sure. The other factors are really every bit as important in terms of being able to have a loving trusting strong marriage relationship.
Most important is to trust your gut and to not give in to fear.
Well, the fact that he is local and this EA has been going on for a while means that it was likely PA. However, that is not your deal breaker and you do not want to snoop either. So, I guess that you just keep working on your marraige with help of counselor and try love depositing as much as possible. Someday when things have settled down a bit and your feel your footing is solid, you may ask for more details of A from her.
For now, just stay in the course, and try plan A. Good luck with you.
My gut was telling me there was something wrong. I went into detective mode. I found out by looking at the Cell phone bills. I confronted her and she admitted that they were friends and she liked talking to him but nothing more. She absolutely denied anything emotional or physical. It had been going on for 3 months. I demanded NC or I would D her...she agreed. That was in August 2009.
In January 2011 I noticed she was acting strange again....back to detective mode. I got into her facebook and noticed messages from the same guy that were fairly new. I put a GPS tracker on her car and guess what? within 2 weeks...hotel!
I confronted again. This time she said it was an EA and they went there to talk because she knew I suspected...really? She adamantly denied it was physical. Remember, this was a woman who I was married to for almost 15 years and we have 3 children together. I NEVER, repeat NEVER thought she would cheat on me or even lie to me. She was still lying to me even when I had good proof.
To make a long story short, I contacted the OM's wife to inform her. It turns out she new more then I did in fact, she sent me thousands of messages between my WW and OM that she got from his computer. Wow...Excruciating!
Their affair had never stopped. It turns out it was just a EA the first time I found out. She lied about NC, took it underground with her Smart phone and within 4 months it was a full blown PA. It went on for another year before I found out the second time.
The point I am trying to make is cheaters, even previously honest spouses can change into someone you never thought they were. Affairs are like an addiction to them. Some will not stop and will lie through their teeth to protect themselves, their affair partner, and you from the truth.
My gut was telling me there was something wrong. I went into detective mode. I found out by looking at the Cell phone bills. I confronted her and she admitted that they were friends and she liked talking to him but nothing more. She absolutely denied anything emotional or physical. It had been going on for 3 months. I demanded NC or I would D her...she agreed. That was in August 2009.
In January 2011 I noticed she was acting strange again....back to detective mode. I got into her facebook and noticed messages from the same guy that were fairly new. I put a GPS tracker on her car and guess what? within 2 weeks...hotel!
I confronted again. This time she said it was an EA and they went there to talk because she knew I suspected...really? She adamantly denied it was physical. Remember, this was a woman who I was married to for almost 15 years and we have 3 children together. I NEVER, repeat NEVER thought she would cheat on me or even lie to me. She was still lying to me even when I had good proof.
To make a long story short, I contacted the OM's wife to inform her. It turns out she new more then I did in fact, she sent me thousands of messages between my WW and OM that she got from his computer. Wow...Excruciating!
Their affair had never stopped. It turns out it was just a EA the first time I found out. She lied about NC, took it underground with her Smart phone and within 4 months it was a full blown PA. It went on for another year before I found out the second time.
The point I am trying to make is cheaters, even previously honest spouses can change into someone you never thought they were. Affairs are like an addiction to them. Some will not stop and will lie through their teeth to protect themselves, their affair partner, and you from the truth.
We've been together a long time (Even longer then you) so that adds to making this difficult to believe.
I really don't know what to think about all this. I believe that she has been untruthful already but her admitting it in anyway has been impossible. When I've called her on things I know (such as her Cell phone bill) I don't get a yes, or no I get silence or claims of ignorance. The addiction comment has my attention. I've known she has a problem with that for a long time but...
I think I may have an incredible capacity for self delusion or everything IS really as she has said in therapy. I'm praying (for real) that this nightmare ends. *Or the meds kick in...
On the GPS tracker. She actually said something to the effect that maybe I need to put one in her car. I really didn't know what to say at that point thinking she was trying to prove she wasn't up to anything but? I really don't know. Seeing a professional might help me get a clear idea (Other then to deal with the Depression / anxiety stuff. I've never been keen on drugs but right now I'm happy to have them keep me from going more insane over this junk.
She has told me that she is afraid to "talk" because she is worried how I will respond and its only sinking in now that it may not be because we have communications issues - it might just be the content. AKA what exactly she has to say.
I can't remember where I heard this but the quote goes something like this.
"There is a certain freedom in being totally screwed. It means that nothing you do is going to make it any worse." At least thats how I feel right now.
Anyway thanks for the input. I think the addiction comment truly explains the inability she had (Has?) in letting this EA go.
The reason people use keyloggers on computers, Var's, phone/text bills etc. is not to spy but verify. People in a EA/PA lie,100%. Your in a situation where you have no idea whats going on and the most important thing is to stop the madness is get to the truth.
Your in a war with the other man, whether you like it or not, and alls fair in love and war. You can hide or come out and fight but its your choice.
So, for those who keep pestering me to put voice recorders under her seat or rewire her cell phone please stop. BTW maybe its the lack of "tone" in text but some of you guys are sounding really angry that I'm not acting the way you would or think I should. I'm sorry about your problems and how they turned out - whatever... but please f off. I don't need this.
Wow, to tell the community here that HAVE BEEN IN YOUR SHOES, to F*CK OFF, after coming here for advice is a little disappointing to say the least. It seems you have your own plan, and that's fine, do what you think is right. Good luck with that. I'll say no more in this thread.
Wow, to tell the community here that HAVE BEEN IN YOUR SHOES, to F*CK OFF, after coming here for advice is a little disappointing to say the least. It seems you have your own plan, and that's fine, do what you think is right. Good luck with that. I'll say no more in this thread.
Thats good. I appreciate that. *Note: I didn't tell everyone on the forum to F off. Just the ones who think their advice will be better received with snide comments about how I've been told what to do and since I'm not blindly following the advice to hell with you type of thing. I would think some of you might have a tiny bit more empathy since you have all dealt with this? Maybe your still angry about what you did or didn't do? Personally I don't care what your problem is but I'm a bit touchy right now and not feeling particularly rational.
I don't think some of you guys even read these posts you just block copy your "Get a Keylogger, put recorders in her car, etc" After the first dozen times? I got it. If you read what I've said you might notice that I've said I don't NEED more proof. I've got her phone records and an admission to the EA. I'm trying right now to "deal" not investigate more. Does it matter if its more then an Emotional connection? Yes, but not that much and my focus right now is me. This is really messing me up and I would like to get that under control before I go rage into things.
I had hoped for some more advice (Other then the spy stuff - I got that a long time ago when I googled Affair) Ok, I admit the links at the bottom of some of the posts have been pretty eye opening but sheesh. You guys get on one thing and never let up other then to tell me "You won't listen? Your a waste of my valuable time." Excuse me for wasting your time and interrupting your agenda.
You can ignore the posts that you don't agree. Even the snooping advices are born out of experiences of such needs, which have been proven time and time again valid. It's not just for the "proof", but so that you know what is exactly going on behind your back.
Anyway, you come across rude and stubborn. Is this the side of you your W has been enduring all these years?
Well it's a shame that you feel that way. The VAR and spy stuff is really only a verification tool. It's used to see if in fact the affair has stopped. Which many...many...most do not.
The people here are trying to save you time and energy...because all the couples therapy, talking it out, working on things isn't worth the darn if the affair is still going on.
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Re: Wife's Emotional Affair - now what? 
