Shaggy

You got valuable and useful advice, which was aimed at learning the full extent of what you are up against. Just like a car mechanic must find the problem before they can begin to fix things, you need to arm yourself with knowledge.

Yes you get told to use tools, and yes these same tools get told to most people who come here saying they think or know there SO is doing something outside the boundaries of marriage and are not beng honest. So you get told about what tools have been found to work and how to use them.

After you actually know where the cancer lies you then can step up and get advice on cutting it out.
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X-unknown

Wow.... so..... your saying this is my fault? Great... I think everyone likes to hear "Listen to me - if you don't listen to me - I'm done with you" I think men dealing with cheating wives want to hear that its their fault. Don't you wish your doctor, friends, parents etc all said that kind of thing to you? I also love the advise that therapy is a waste of time. For real? Really?

I'm quite sure that I have been screwed over by my wife of 20+ years with this guy. Again - I've snooped already. I have the phone records and her admission that this went too far. Do I need to know more? Right now I need to know I'm not going to have a stroke over this. I'm not far from the D-Day" and I'm (honestly) seriously flipping my wig. - like give me drugs so I don't drop dead level stuff. I know that some of you just were tough macho types and said, "Lawyer up *****" and got a D and moved on - no sweat. Great... Good for you. I've already been there and done that. And no - it wasn't because I was a rude jerk or angry etc.

My point is that I'm in a bad bad place and this is knowing what I already know. I'm pretty sure getting more info is not going to be good for me at this time.

One person said to take care of yourself and that advice has really helped. The other advice that I truly value was "make a plan" and I have. It involves taking care of myself first so I can do anything else. For me it means couples therapy *Which is where this came out and it was the efforts of the therapist that made it happen or at least helped. A plan that says "Keep going with what has worked" seems to me like at least a fair plan. Right? Wrong? I'm probably a bit older (And crabbier) then most of you and I'm not in super good shape health wise. So, the other part of my plan was the take care of yourself first suggestion so - I've talked this over with my Doc and with the Doc's help I'm not worrying that I'm going to croak from thinking about this over and over and over. The advice I got from the Doc (Who says this is not uncommon - and they have dealt with this many times) has been good. The doc btw didn't tell me "Do this or I'm done with you" Which I think was very professional. The doc didn't tell me that this was my fault either.

Whatever you want to suggest or demand from me. In the end this is my life and my problem. Ok? If you gents feel so strongly that I'm wrong? Ok, but don't expect me to love hearing that this is my fault and how much I'm a waste of your time because I don't do this like you want.

I came to learn what others have - but I haven't signed an oath to do it.

Most of you have been nice and a valued resource. I think that some of you think you have all the answers and know everything about this situation (and us) from reading a few posts. I think some of the posts have been arrogant and rude. So I responded. If you don't like the thread or how I react to your posts? Or me saying "F off?" maybe thats harsh and maybe none of you use the "F" word. but why are those of you who don't want to waste your valuable time with my little problem interested in spending your valuable time posting me that you are done wasting your valuable time with me? Do you seriously think that will help someone in this situation? I can't imagine why you would read this thread if your not interested in supporting people who are going through things that have happened to you.

Honestly - if you were in my position how would you feel? If there wasn't a lot of really good information from some of you I would have been long gone from this forum already. Yeah I know. Don't let the door hit me in the ass when I leave...

Crap - once again I'm not saying this well and it probably is just offending more of you. I'm sorry. This is major league stress (And totally unexpected btw) and for added fun its combined with a lot more stress from other directions I haven't mentioned.

Geoffrey Marsh

Wow...X-unknown. I feel ya.

Listen...the road you are on sucks...sucks and sucks some more. There is no other way to say it.

Keep on keeping on...and take care of yourself first.

__________________
Best wishes,
GM

If you would like more help, check out my blog: http://myspousecheated.blogspot.com
My Story: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-...ways-hope.html

X-unknown

Thanks Geoffry. I appreciate it. I've taken a couple of steps in the taking care of myself direction and hopefully it gets better soon.

lostalso

Speaking as a person who has myself been in her position, all roads lead to sex my EA of two years I never allowed myself to cross a line. I even told myself that I was not attracted to this person in that way.
But it did eventually lead to that, and I even justified it in my head because I am in a marriage with a person who is very controlling and emotionally abusive. Yes I regret it now, but can recognize these actions in other people. and can't believe their spouses do not see it..

X-unknown

I had to take a mental vacation from this (my) thread. This was getting tough tough tough tough tough (As Mick Jagger says in "Shattered or was it When the whip comes down)

I had a message (thanks Chap) asking me for an update. So... #1 I went into take care of me mode. My doctor judged that I was taking this really really hard and put me on a few meds. This has helped me NOT spend my entire waking day feeling lower then whale poop. I also started doing therapy (myself) and got together a "this is just not going to work plan" and my wife picked up on that (girl radar) right away. I told her that her radar was 100% correct but that I was still working on this with her. She told me (in therapy) that she was sorry if she did something that made me feel bad. Which I thought was the lousiest self serving babble ever and told her that was worse then no apology. It was more like saying "I'm sorry your so thin skinned that I can't go off with other men" and told her so.

We ended up reading a lot of books. "Not just friends" was a good one. The couples therapist gave her some "read this" and pried more of what she was up to with the other man. Can't remember the title (exactly) but there is this really thin book about helping your partner get over your affair or? Anyway I flipped through that and got a copy for WW. She told me that "Not just friends" really hit her, that the how to heal your spouse after your affair? helped her understand better what was going on with me. And.... she gave me a REAL apology and broke down and told me how it was really not "just friends" and that it wasn't just him chasing her around it was mutual. So, I had one of those "Which way do I go with this?" and it was really hard.. but the one thing that made me stick with this and try to fix it is that way before I had a clue about this going on she was the one to ask for couples therapy. That and her coming clean (Humm.... at least coming MORE clean) with me made up my mind to keep giving this a chance. I found a BAN group (Spouses who were cheated on type of thing) Really eye opening and I want to say that it was of value to be able to talk it out and hear that we are not even close to being alone in this. *Not that this makes it "ok" it just makes it a tiny bit less "is this just me?"

So - we made it past Valentines day which was a tough one. I kind of did the "fake it until you make it" which has been maybe the best advice I got. I was told that its the 12 step program condensed (I don't know and hopefully that not an insult) Anyway I got a very odd V-Day card which was is a keeper. For that (Hopefully) day I can look back at this and not tense up and want to rip my own head off.

Ok, one reply on the all roads lead to sex when you have an EA. I think this is focused on too much. Someone else said this better then I will but her being in love with another man is "ok" compared to her having sex? I brought that up at the BAN meeting and everyone went around saying they all felt the EA was worse then some random one night stand. And the long term lying etc were the worst. So I guess I'm saying sex? Or not? Its not a hill of beans different to me at this point.

Not that I didn't get HIV / STD tests. (I'm not infected with anything)

Another thing is that there are a pretty fair number of people who were able to survive (Stay Married). They gave some good ideas and one of them is to keep going to group meetings. I think for a variety of reasons.

Anyway I really feel for the people who are just starting to deal with this. I watched three people come close to falling apart at the BAN meeting and my heart goes out to them. I wish there was some way to show the wayward ones a picture of them to show how much this hurts the people they are screwing around on. Maybe it would make the world a "bit" less 60 to 70% cheating over the course of a marriage? Or not... Its a sad world.

OK, I've babbled enough. Hang in there guys and girls. I nearly let this crap kill me (Serious stress health issues) So it could be worse!

chapparal

This looks like you are on the way to healing. You and your wife are still together. Are you certain when they ended contact? Did she end contact because she thought she would lose you? Ever talk to the other man? Do you think you will save the marriage? Is she 100% committed?

TRy

Thanks for the update. It appears that you have made some progress.

You were right in calling her out for the "sorry if she did something that made" you feel bad comment. It is a false apology since it is not acknowledging that she did anything wrong.

EAs are by definition long term and ONS are by definition one off, thus the EA being worse than a ONS is a loaded question that does not address the physical affair (PA) aspect of an EA. If a EA goes physical, the the PA is long term and not a one off thing. The physical sex aspect of an EA is also more intimate and bonding and this needs to be addressed for you to be able to heal. You giving her a pass on this is nothing more than rug sweeping. You need to know and the sooner that you know the sooner you can begin true reconciliation.

As for you saying that 60% to 70% will cheat over the course of a marraige, that number has been thrown out there based on one questionable study and is used to make people feel better about being cheated on. Most university and other major studies put the number much lower, such as a major University of Chicago study which put men at 22% and women at 15%; these numbers are similar to the results of a study by MSNBC.

Be well and good luck. Thanks again for the update.

X-unknown

One of the things I did was to take the really close friends and count how many had some kind of affair issues (I was interested in how many had stayed together ) and I got a fairly close number to that one "thrown out" *And it was about 50% I assume that some never told anyone about an affair. I say that because some divorces were deep dark secrets. My observation is that 60 - to 70% is close. Its sure not 20% (in my world)

I want to add that maybe this is because I'm not young so that "over a lifetime" might be more accurate? Maybe I expressed this wrong? Knowing this made "me" feel a little better. Can we agree on that?

Do I know that she has cut off contact? That was a huge problem for me in therapy. i was told "There is nothing I can do. She can decide to do that or she can decide to leave totally and there is (in reality) little I can do about it.

Before this I drove around and checked up on her a couple of times and it was making me crazy and she picked up on it "Her Radar." The shrink was right btw. It didn't make me feel safe. If she wanted to contact him she could use her work phone. She has part time jobs and she could lie about when she was at work. So do I "know"? No, I do not know and I don't think anyone can say so (100%) either.

When she started this I was picking up on this even before it crossed the line - EA stage. I even told her that I had this feeling but of course she said "he is just a friend" and "you are crazy because" and gave me a load of reasons this was impossible. I let the "rational" part of my brain override my "radar" I thought it was more likely I was "crazy." BTW Her radar appears to be working pretty well because she picked up in an instant that I was setting up a D plan in case R didn't work.

I would like to add this and hopefully its food for thought and not just an angry reply from the crabby old guy *Which is how it ended last time. There are many issues when people text, email etc because tone is difficult to inject into the written word. And I will admit I am reacting with emotion and maybe this is me picking up "tone" thats not there?

Here it goes anyway. Maybe take this as food for thought. I have to remember why I took a vacation from this site and I think I can sum it up using the points you made with your reply. I came here to see what others were doing about this and use that information (or not) to decide what I would do. There are a lot of good suggestions and I think its helpful to hear the experiences of other. But some of it I didn't do and had the nerve to say so. Take the putting a VAR under the wife's seat in her car. My answer to that was I already knew. I already had enough facts to make me either D or know I needed to work on the R plan. I got heat about that. I added that wasting money on this that I don't have didn't make sense because *Again I had all the information I needed. And then I got replies that my relationship ought to be "worth" the price of a VAR. - So, does that come across ok. My tone is (irritated) because no one seemed to say anything about my response they only seemed (to me) to be saying your wrong - do what your told.

I didn't come here to debate or be told what to do. I go to couples therapy and see a shrink for that ;-) and they BTW are not perfect. Even if so far the advice we've gotten has been working. And this is from a professional with more then one or two personal experiences - degrees on the wall and years on the job. Don't take this wrong but I don't know who you guys. You might be experts but to me your random people on the internet. I strongly suspect the vast majority of you are not trained or licensed to give advice on this topic. .


I dunno - Does anyone "get" me?

TRy

I get it. It appears that you may not understand our role. We do not claim on this board to replace professional marraige counseling (MC) or individual counseling (IC). Far from it in fact, as MC and IC is recommend many times on almost every thread on this board. In the US legal system there is not only a judge and professional legal counsel, there is a jury of your peers. Peers that are there to make sure that the legal system is subject to a reality check by regular people. We are nothing more than that. We are your peers. We are here to give you a reality check.

AngryandUsed

Buddy, I read your thread. I do not understand what you want from this thread. When advised by some, you say you already know, have done VAR etc. If you have known that your wife cheated even emmotionally - I see that for you ONS is okay rather than an EA - what are you seeking here?

Are you trying to validate what you have done?
If EA was the deal breaker, you already have your answer.
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the guy

I get it also.
But stop telling me I'm not qualified (my tone is humor) just b/c I can't spell doesn't mean I have a valid view point (my tone is still humor).

Seriously, I'm glad you posted your point. TAM realy is a forum that folks should take what they need and leave what doesn't help.

TRy mentions reality checks, I think that is also is a big part of CWI often its hard to see through the forest, and others perspective also offer a point of view from the outside looking in.....if you know what I mean.

It should always be the individuals choice to use any advice professional or other wise when it comes to dealing with infidelity. Everyone can say that this is the hardest thing to ever deal with and unfortunely we are no alone.

X-unknown

I can't decide? Laugh or pull the plug. You just said your not the Judge or Executioner your just my Jury? I want my Lawyer! Who btw is the Judge?

So people are supposed to come here to get a verdict? Which is? What? Guilty of causing this? and or guilty of not dealing with it the way the Jury of my Peers would? For real?

Wow...... Really. just Wow.... I don't know what to say to that. I'm sort of speechless.

bandit.45

If you can't swim, stay out of the water dude. We're just electrons on your computer screen... We don't know you, and frankly we don't really care what you do nor do we wish to expend the emotional energy worrying about what happens to you one way or another.

You came here for advice and we gave it. If you don't like our answers, go visit another website and quit wasting everyone's time.

X-unknown

I know long messages can be a pain to read so I understand that your not reading my posts. If you had read them you would see that I did NOT buy a VAR and that was one of the early "arguments". I think I even mention this in the previous message as an example. Let me try again. I caught my wife making hundreds of calls to her "boyfriend" Got an admission of an EA. I made the point that it wasn't important to have more proof (you got that part right). I made a comment wasted money when I know enough to ponder "D" already. ie Buying a VAR is a waste of money. I got a messages about how I'm bad for not spending money on this because my marriage is important...

You asked why did I come here? Thats a fair question. And one that maybe I just didn't spell out or I did it badly. I came here to see if anyone had R. I wanted to hear what they did and then make up my mind on how to proceed. Thats really the core. Whats your story? what was important? and then I choose to make up my mind how I will proceed. For gosh sakes does that sound so unreasonable? I've got a fair number of friends who D because of some infidelity. I don't know anyone that has R And anyway I can't ask them because I'm not willing to drag them into this and have a "Whose side are you on?" situation. But if I did and my best friend in the world told me what to do I would not feel obligated to do what he suggested. Would you or anyone else say that everyone's experience is the same and have the black and white answer to infidelity?