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Help and advice needed

38K views 226 replies 18 participants last post by  Chaparral 
#1 ·
My story is so complicated that it could show up in all the topics on this site but since all has come to a head with the discovery of my wife's EA that was headed toward a PA I will share the story here. We have been married 18 years. I raised two of her kids and we have two at home that are ours. Nine years ago we bought a business and I will admit that it became the top priority in my life. We began to argue a lot and I said many mean things to her that were never meant but were said in anger. BUT, I have always been there for her and supported her in the things she wanted. But I guess I was not there for her emotionally...too busy with everything else in life and did not feed our relationship or take care of it enough. I knew we were having marital problems but thought these were NORMAL marital issues. The business has been in trouble for three years now and I finally have let go of trying to make it work. I was ready to start focusing on us again because I felt I finally could when I found out that she had been in a EA since June (I found all this out last week). This past Monday I found that she was planning on meeting him at a hotel. BTW this is the second EA she has had, the first ended some years ago. Now, she has said she has no feelings for me or is not sure if does and that she has feelings for the OP or she thinks she does. She is not sure. I have committed to trying to fix things but she is not sure she can. I really don't know what to do here? Am I just out of luck? Do I wait until she decides whether she wants to be committed to the relationship again? My heart is broken. The one person I ALWAYS thought would be there through thick and thin has betrayed me. Obviously there are more details to our life together than I have outlined and I can explain as this thread grows. I really want our marriage to work out but am I fooling myself here?
Thanks!
 
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#94 ·
She went to High School with this guy like 30 years ago. They knew each other but did not date. I went with her to a HS reunion thing last June and that is where they "hooked up" I guess. Phone records seem to verify nothing before June. She has admitted to June but honestly if she told me the sky was blue I would be sure it was anything BUT blue at this point. This is not the same guy the first OM she met in an online class doing her Ba degree. Sexting but it hurt like hell when i found out. She ended it immediately and swore it would never happen again. How did I find out? On BOTH occasions I accidentally saw email/IM stuff. The first time it was emails to the OM...very explicit. She had left her laptop open and running on her email. Did I snoop...yes a little. This time in much the same manner she left FB open with IMs to a GF (the one who is staying with her tonight BTW). I went to move the computer off the foot stool so i could watch a little T.V. and voila...there were the conversations between the GF and her regarding the current OM. Chapparal, you really make a lot of sense here. And don't worry guys, I will remain strong as long as I know this will be the most honest and open thing I can do with her. The man up/nice guy thing I read a few days ago...pretty painful because I am the "nice guy." Though in reality I am not. I have blown our marriage over the years...never really fulfilling her needs/wants. I always put me and my career first. My bad. I have said I am sorry too many times now to her. She can't hear it anyway. I was NOT a very nice guy for the past nine years. i admit that freely. She has in fact most recently accused me of having an affair...with the business! Justification I know and meant to hurt me and it does, except she cannot see that I am a changed man now. have been for some months (ironically since June when her A started...though not for that reason). The fact is I DO have a lot of options. I can go just about anywhere given the work I do (although I really HATE what I do...boo hoo right?). The main thing is my kids and if this thing ends in a D...and I hope to God it does not, I want my kids. I am not sending them into another situation like this with her. Especially my nine-year old, he has special needs and i am the only one who can really care for him. Anyway, there it is for you...
 
#96 ·
It will take a while. But, you are now on the road to stop being a doormat and to having a decent life.YOu need to know that your wife is an abuser, a big time abuser. You have allowed yourself to be victimized by this woman for a long time now. It is time for it to stop.
Check out www.shrink4men and www.menwhoareabused.
Read Marc Rudov's stuff ,as well as Paul Elam's. You need a different view on women.IMO.
 
#103 ·
Just google those sites, then.

And, yes, of course you are being abused. If you research this, you will se that many, if not most marital therapists consider infidelity the most severe form of emotional abuse.
Willard Harley, on his mrriagebuilders site has a free 30 minute videoclip discussing this. In it , he says he interviewd betrayed spouses who have also experienced sexual assaults or the loss of a child. He says that most of these folks tell him that the recovery from infidelity was much tougher.
Now, don't get me wrong, as I think any betrayed spouse who is also a parent would willingly go through infidelity trauma vs losing a child. But, Harley's point is not that the trauma of infidelity is greater, but that the recovery is tougher.
He explains how that when a child dies, there has been no volitional betrayal on the child's part. And, that the loss of a child does not vitiate all the fond memories of past experiences with the child.
He also points out that people are much more supportive and sympathetic to the parents who lose a child vs how betrayed spouses are treated by people(especially those who have not been through this). There is a built in support systen for grieving parents vs betryaed spouses.
Finally, he points out that a child that dies is, obviously, not around to trigger bad memories and one does not have to witness the child parading around with an affair partner, as betrayed spouses have to do.
Just google "infidelity abuse". And watch that video by Harely. No quuestion it is severe abuse, terribly cruel. That is why, IMO, most cheaters are abusive types to begin with. They lack empathy.
 
#101 ·
Remember the 180 can be screwed up if used in the wrong situation. It is to help you, not save your marriage. You getting yourself together will make you more attractive to the opposite sex. This may draw your wife back to you. However, don't punish good behavior.

Getting in contact with other mans wife usually blows up the affair from the other end. Its very unlikely he will throw his family under the bus for your wife. It is remotely possible however.

The most important thing is to do absolutely nothing that makes you look weak. You have to be strong, dependable, sane, solid, kind, understanding. No crying, whining, begging moping. If your losing control of yourself get away for awhile. No SARCASAM or other smart remarks.

Talk about family, love and resposibility and don't make excuses. Think and think some more before you speak. Listen a lot more than you speak.
 
#102 ·
Hopeeternal,

I don't know what I can say that hasn't already been said, you've been given great advice by our regulars, jellybeans, chaparral, and others. You've been a beta male, and now you had better become alpha now or your cause is lost. This isn't about winning or losing, or some kind of test of wills with her. This is about saving yourself, and possibly in the future, going into R if that's what you want. But not now.

Your wife is deep in the affair FOG. While she's there, she's literally out of her mind and is currently not the woman you've been married to all these years. She is now someone else. You need to realize this. You also need to realize that for all intents and purposes, your marriage is effectively over right now and she belongs to the OM. There is no way in hell that you can talk some sense into her. You cannot make her love you. You cannot manipulate her. That is the harsh truth. If you ever do reconcile, you must know that will be an entirely new marriage. But right now you have to proceed as though the current marriage is over because of this affair. You have to let her go. If you can't do this, then you will forever be walked on.

With that said, R is always possible, depending on what you consider a deal breaker. DO NOT get into a texting war with her. DO NOT get into a shouting match on the phone or in person with her. Go dark. Do a hard 180. Like others have said, the 180 is for you. It's quite obvious that you have strong codependency tendencies. The 180 is to help you overcome these tendencies. To help you get strong.

Because what she's doing right now is cake eating. She wants the security of marriage (despite what she says), and the freedom to mess around with OM. To her, you are just the provider, the one who pays the bills and watches the kids. You are the beta male. You are in fact, not attractive to her right now, especially since it seems she can manipulate you so easily.

You have to put D on the table. It's either she stops the affair, or it's D. It's as simple as that. Unless you want to live in an open marriage and share her with other men. If that's the case, you will only have to wait a short while until she finds your replacement and runs off with him, while you end up with and incurable STD or worse.

DO NOT move out of the house, she's the one who cheated. Throw her sh!t on the lawn or pack her bags. She should not be welcome in the marital home while she belongs to the OM. Those should be your conditions. These are NOT negotiable.

Another condition should be she also goes NC with her toxic friend. Her toxic friend is most likely enabling and even facilitating the affair. Her toxic friend is no friend of the marriage.

Expose, expose, expose. If you can find out the OMWs info, contact her once you have the proof. Do not expose unless you have proof and do not warn your WW that you will expose the affair. If you do, she will move to protect her OM and warn him. He will then be able to spin the story to his own BW and will paint you as some crazy jealous man out to ruin their marriage. And her first reaction will to believe and protect her husband unless you have that proof.

If you can afford it, hire a PI. That's always the best way if you can afford it. Otherwise you will have to do the PI work yourself, and that means computer monitoring software, phone monitoring software, and VARs. And for goodness sake, DO NOT tell her about this site. I know this is a public site, but waywards seldom go to these sites because they don't want to read things that make them feel guilty or against their affair. Keep this as your safe place for now. I don't know why so many BSs, when they come here, think they can show their WS this site and think they will change their ways if only they read what's here. They won't. They're in the FOG, remember? If you do, they will only find ways to take the affair underground.

DO NOT go to MC either, not right now. MC is useless until the affair is over and both partners are comitted 100% in saving the marriage.

In a nutshell, she goes NC with OM or it's D. That should be non negotiable. And then you will have to verify that she is NC with him after a NC letter is sent with you as a witness. Sounds so far that she won't. Fine. You must lawyer up and start pulling the trigger on D. Remember, D takes a while, and you can put a halt on the process at any time.
 
#106 ·
Thank you all. First good night's sleep I have had in weeks. Remembering the 180 will be tough, I really need to just keep going over it and over it. I HAVE been Beta but not anymore. I AM codependent and that will be harder to break. Its funny because right after my "discovery" we were talking. Somewhere in the conversation I was telling her she could do whatever she needed to to figure herself out (this was before I found this site and was schooled about how I was going about this all wrong). At one point she goes "you really are a doormat." Do you know that is the only part of the conversation I actually remember? Because it is so true. I have laid down for her throughout our entire marriage because I felt that this was the best way to please her and fill her needs. What a moron I am!
 
#107 ·
Congrats on the good nights sleep.

If you look at these threads you will see the waywards invariably follow a script. However, the endings can be different. For some there is no reconciling, others can't wait to reconcile, some can't make up their mind and worse, some pretend to reconcile. That's why staying vigilant and verifying everything is a must if you choose reconciling.

Remember you do not turn mean or angry under the 180. Family first. At every appropriate moment remind her of what's best for the family and still keep communication to a minimum.

It would be best if she thought you were no longer consulting this forum. She needs to know that who she's talking to is you, which it is. Just a more informed you.

The ultimate goal is to show her someone she can trust and depend on.

Don't throw the counseling idea out the window either. You should go to individual counseling and if she stops the affair then go to marriage counseling with her.

Sounds like she may have been abusing the relationship, however acting like a doormat can bring this on. Look up "fitness testing'. Make sure you understand the boudaries issues also.

I, for one, think you all have a good chance at being happy and pulling your family back together and I pray to God you do. Many people that go through this say their marriage turns out better than ever.

Book reading list: Five Love Languages, Love Busters, His Needs Her Needs.

Good luck

Chap
 
#109 ·
Thanks again. Of course have been thinking all day while trying to work. I do think we can turn this corner but she must follow the rules and I must obey 180. If she won't give up the A, then obviously the whole deal is done because to me it shows that she will never have any respect for me (or for herself). And I have thought a lot about HER today. Her past and the patterns she follows. She did the same thing in her first marriage but he never caught on. And, she left him because he was too much of a door mat. Ha!
Plan A: continue riding this wave out. I want to see what she does with my "new found" self. I am certain she wants to separate but I think it has to be clear that even if we DO separate the A has to end if we have any chance at all. Of course I will have no way of verifying if she does move out. BUT if separation works fine. We can see councilors separately as well during that time (yep, I need one for sure).
Plan B if she does not end it then we start seeing our lawyers. THAT will be complicated as she owns 50% of the business and we have investments together.

What SUCKS is both A and B are going to hurt our kids. Also know that either way I will be contacting the OMW as soon as I figure out how. At the very least then all four of us will be part of their affair.

I am also focusing on how I will react. I have decided that I can no longer cry for the past, its done. I will try to make today the best it can be. I will NOT cry for the future because it has not happened. I will not yell, I may be angry but I will talk (minimally) and listen. I will be calm. I will be peaceful. This is the Buddhist way and I am a novice Buddhist (took that up last winter as a way of coping with the stress in my life).
 
#112 ·
My personal opinion: not a fan of plan A at all. When an affair is happening...especially when its not the first time the wayward has cheated...its time. For consequences...plan & all the way
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I agree. Plan A is a modified Plan Doormat. I know there is the "stick"part of the "carrot and the stick" deal. But,in my opinion when someone is abusing you like this, the only reason to use a carrot is to shove it up her ass.
Maybe that is just me. But, when someone ****s with me, I don't offer an olive branch until she apologizes and makes amends.
 
#114 ·
Yep...you are all correct again. So, plan B is my plan A then. But the fact is that she clearly did not write the OM like she said she would (I knew she was lying when she said it, but I am Hope Eternal). No contact from her today (I said she will lick her wounds for a few days, and expects ME to contact her...come crawling back like a million times before...how pathetic!). So NOW what? I am out of town working until Wednesday. If she does not hear from me and she does not contact me i know she will be lying in wait for me when I return...with her rants all planned out. I plan on "sticking to my guns" with regard to the A ending, but I have now said "immediately" like twenty times. When is enough enough?
 
#119 ·
Shamwow used a private investigator. He delayed awhile not wanting to hurt OMW. However, when he got in contact with her the other man dumped Sham's wife instantly and threw her under the bus. The other mans wife thanked Sham several times asshe had suspected something but coulsn't prove it.

They are trying to reconcile but Sham is going through with divorce at this time.

Your wife will believe" immediately" when you show her you meanit by doing the opposite form what you've always done. Let her stew while working on yourself.
 
#121 ·
Shaggy,

I have a home address and what I assume is a landline. I also have OMs cell phone from my wife's phone records. PI is out...cannot afford that. There are phone look up sites that charge a monthly fee. I have found him but not sure if I pay it will list her as well?
 
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