I don't really see where you can take anything from this message. My wife's office used to have two really good Christmas parties but given my preferences the boredom really out weighed a really good steak.
Plus, I was around people I was glad to not have to see for another year.
That she was willing to go and suffer through it says a lot, just don't get your hopes up yet.
The day after our divorce talk ( Wednesday night), I found the letter my wife left me in 2009....when she laid out her concerns about my activities in 2007...porn use...issues with kids, etc. I made one last attempt to reach out to her...by commenting in the letter...and emailed it to her, with the following:
I found this letter from you….I believe circa 2009….last night. I made some comments on it. I realize there was a subsequent letter, after you found out about the [strip club name]…and my spending at [bar name]. I had thought we got past that…but obviously not. I would like to point out that this activity was during 2007. By the time you discovered [strip club name]…..it had been two years where I had never gone back. No excuse, I know……but I have no way to prove to you how stupid I felt about going there. And once you found it (again …two years later)…how ashamed I was.
As for the spending at [bar name]…..I was being stupid. I felt I had to reward [my employees name] for all the hours I made him work. So, when we did go out…I typically picked up the tab. I never really realized how much money I was spending, until I did the taxes at the end of 2007. Once I did…I cut WAY back. I can never fully explain to you why I went a bit wild in 2007. I believed it to be because I had spent the prior 4 years grappling with [prior employment] and our business….working so much……when I got to [current job name], I got a bit selfish. I WAS working hard…but then…I wasn’t coming home after. This will go down as my biggest regret. I never really understood what I was doing to YOU. I was too focused on what I was going through.
That being said…I had a conversation with [my employee/friend name]this morning on his recollection of those days. He too remembers we did do excess….but not ALL the time. He talked to his wife, who recalls questioning all the time…but then he showed her his timesheets, and she realized. I know I can’t PROVE that the money being spent was not spent on other women. How could I? I could have [my employee/friend name] vouch for me…but you wouldn’t believe. You told me last night that I would believe what I want to believe. Isn’t that what you are doing here?
I was wrong in 2007. I shamed myself into correction (as your letter does attest to.) When you caught it…it shamed me more. BUT…it was never anything near what I believe you were imagining. I so wish we HAD done counseling THEN…so we could have learned at that time, how to communicate with each other. I pains me to think a marriage could be lost over mistakes (yes I know I made mistakes)….but not ones that couldn’t have been easily overcome….if we could only have addressed them better then.
As for the sleazy computer stuff….you have no idea how much I would trade one of your spoon cuddles, for every one of those other minutes. And it never did get worse. Nothing worse than playboy or Cinemax. I honestly didn’t think it bothered you all that much…just that you were concerned it would interfere. Again…no way to prove to you that I would have preferred YOU…any day.
This was my one last overture to her.....cause it pains me greatly that we may let a marriage die, due to relatively minor mistakes. Sure...we had problems before 2007....but....maybe if we had gone to counseling then..and learned to communicate, we would have adapted. I know the letter isn't exactly 180-ish...and may, indeed, make me look weak. But it also occured to me, that this letter (and the one after...when she found all the spending...including the strip club) were really the only two communication attempts she made to me. Maybe we should have bee WRITING to each other, all along...to try and address things. It is certainly the method she chose, at THAT time.
Anyway...i have no idea if this made any impact at all. I went completely 180 thereafter. She IS slightly friendlier now...but has not responded to the email. So...no way to know what is going on in her head (not that I EVER could.) Anyway....that's the latest of everything.
Thanks Chapparal...you last email makes sense. I try not to get my hopes up...but it IS hard.
Oh she sounds just like me. Another resentment I had is my husband is into weight lifting always have been. He would pick the gym over me all the time. I hated it not really knowing if he was really there and by God I was not about to let him know I cared.
Your wife sounds like me. I know your trying the 180 but maybe you should sleep in your own bed tonight and tell her again how much you love her. Posted via Mobile Device
I'm waiting on a mouthpiece, I ordered, that supposedly helps with my snoring. As soon as I get it (sometime next week) I'll definitely got back to my bed. I originally started nodding off at my desk, until the tv turned off (around 3:00 am)...waking me up...and I'd go to bed then. I figured, by that time...she'd have gotten enough sleep...and I wouldn't feel guilty about snoring. Then, one night, she hauled off and hit me (in my sleep) because of my snoring. I got so pissed, I stopped coming up at 3:00. She never once objected...so I assumed she liked the arrangement. I've dropped about 20 lbs, since the beginning of the year...and with this mouthpiece...I'm hoping the snoring is better.....so I'll give it a try again, in our bed.
Does she know about the mouth piece and the plan when it comes? Posted via Mobile Device
No. Thought I'd surprise her. Hard to say if my coming back to bed will be welcomed. At this point...I'm doubtful. Part of my reason for doing so is because it is MY furniture. If we divorce...I'm taking it with me. So...if she doesn't like me coming back.....SHE can try sleeping on the sofa for a while. Of course....i'm hoping she doesn't. But...really...there isn't much to be hopeful for, at the moment.
I can't believe she didn't object to you NOT sleeping in the marital bed for so long. That there is a red flag in my book.
Well...like I've said....I originally started putting off going to bed, later and later....so I wouldn't be the reason "I didn't sleep well last night." It got to the point, I wasn't coming to bed until around 3:00 am....but as soon as I did...she would immediately go into inner spoon position with me. All until last Feb, when she went cold. THEN...she just pulled away when I came to bed. Then, one time...she hauled off and hit me pretty hard....for snoring. So....just stopped coming to bed.
I asked her, in one of our recent talks, why she never insisted to me to go to the doctor and get the snoring fixed. She said..."I don't know...i just figured you would do it. Didn't think I needed to tell you." So...I guess, by the time I stopped coming to bed, she already didn't really care.
Man...this has been a tough day. Wife (lately) has had the drawbridges UP, moat filled, and all gates locked...when she takes her shower. So...this morning....I had to ask her something about the kids, heard the shower going...but all the doors were open. So, I went into the bathroom, thinking she was already in the shower. Well...walked in on her completely naked...not in shower yet! YIKES!! Haven't seen THAT in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time! WOW...did that look good. {sigh}
We went Xmas shopping, and Santa visit..with the kids today. She was downright friendly all day. This evening, as we reviewed the presents lists.....she was a LOT of fun to talk to. We were in the kitchen, reviewing the Xmas lists...just talking/joking around. I'm standing there, looking at her....just thinking "MAN...you are gorgeous!"
WTH??!! We've been getting along better, this whole weekend...than we have for so long. What gives?? Is it my letter? Is she responding to the divorce talk..either:
A) Happy we are discussing divorce;
B) Not happy, and trying to reverse course;
C) Some other option, I can't fathom???
I don't know WHAT to make of all this. I guess I'll wait and see whether we get to the counselor on January 7th. If she doesn't want to go...I'll just HAVE to conclude her better mood is due to wanting the divorce...and move forward. I just have always had so much trouble reading this woman.
Have you been following the 180? If the answer is yes, then you may be seeing a side effect of it. Emotionally strong = attractive, Needy = repulsive.
I have been. But...like I've said before....I don't really see much difference between the current 180, and what we were both doing to each other, over the past year (at least.) I sent her the letter (earlier post) on Thursday...and then went 180. We STILL have the divorce talk, hanging in the air. We've not talked future, relationship, or reconciliation in any way. Baffling.
Your letter was an acknowledgement and ownership of your contributions to the marriage that brought it to the state it's been for a few years. Plus the fact that you brought the possibility of divorce at the beginning of the year - a form of unselfishly letting go of her - may have caused her to overcome some of the resentment she's been carrying for the last few years. Perhaps this is a good sign.
DG: Very interesting insight to your situation, and with everything being considered, makes ALOT of sense!
Having experienced what I have with my W in the past year, I actually think that the reality of divorce has to come up - not as a threat, but as a real path to the personal boundaries within the marriage.
Realizing the strip bar thing (which sure looks like an affair), with the withdrawal from intimacy (going to bed later with snoring), I would dare say you are very lucky she has stuck with you.
Affair possibility aside, show her all the love you can while doing the best 180 you can. Make sure she knows how much you love and value her, but at the same time valuing yourself.
GET THAT SNORING TAKEN CARE OF! IT REALLY IS A DRAG ON THE SPOUSE! My wife spent a lot of time on the couch (she tried to sleep with me despite, but she could only take so much of that) - and I finally visited the pulmonologist and got the sleep study done.
I have a sexy (NOT!) CPAP machine now that I wear (and it really helps with your mood, health), and quite frankly it hasn't made any negative impact to our intimacy as a couple (you don't need to use the machine for SEX!) - and my wife prefers to sleep to the sound of the white noise it produces, and she feels a LOT more secure that I'll be around a lot longer using it, which actually makes her happier to be with me taking care of myself.
Not sure what the science is on the mouthgards - but definitely yes - get the snoring taken care of. When you do things that will help her feel more secure in your marriage, things will thaw out. Help her understand your point of view on the privacy and the cheating suspicions. It came from a valid point of view, and frankly, if you didn't care so much about the marriage, you wouldn't have spied, you would have just left.
DG: Very interesting insight to your situation, and with everything being considered, makes ALOT of sense!
Having experienced what I have with my W in the past year, I actually think that the reality of divorce has to come up - not as a threat, but as a real path to the personal boundaries within the marriage.
Realizing the strip bar thing (which sure looks like an affair), with the withdrawal from intimacy (going to bed later with snoring), I would dare say you are very lucky she has stuck with you.
Affair possibility aside, show her all the love you can while doing the best 180 you can. Make sure she knows how much you love and value her, but at the same time valuing yourself.
GET THAT SNORING TAKEN CARE OF! IT REALLY IS A DRAG ON THE SPOUSE! My wife spent a lot of time on the couch (she tried to sleep with me despite, but she could only take so much of that) - and I finally visited the pulmonologist and got the sleep study done.
I have a sexy (NOT!) CPAP machine now that I wear (and it really helps with your mood, health), and quite frankly it hasn't made any negative impact to our intimacy as a couple (you don't need to use the machine for SEX!) - and my wife prefers to sleep to the sound of the white noise it produces, and she feels a LOT more secure that I'll be around a lot longer using it, which actually makes her happier to be with me taking care of myself.
Not sure what the science is on the mouthgards - but definitely yes - get the snoring taken care of. When you do things that will help her feel more secure in your marriage, things will thaw out. Help her understand your point of view on the privacy and the cheating suspicions. It came from a valid point of view, and frankly, if you didn't care so much about the marriage, you wouldn't have spied, you would have just left.
Thanks DadOf3....thanks for the comments. I have had a LOT of introspection, lately. I know I've contributed to some of the withdrawal of intimacy. I'll address this. Hopefully, we'll get to address her original withdrawals as well. Thanks for your insight.
180Likes
Re: Pretty Much Have Lost It 
Hard to say if my coming back to bed will be welcomed. At this point...I'm doubtful. Part of my reason for doing so is because it is MY furniture. If we divorce...I'm taking it with me. So...if she doesn't like me coming back.....SHE can try sleeping on the sofa for a while. Of course....i'm hoping she doesn't. But...really...there isn't much to be hopeful for, at the moment. 
