Okay... I've been following your thread for sometime and now feel like I should chime in..
The 20# is likely an EIN. When you apply for an EIN online, they start with a 20 (or at least they did a couple years ago). It's entirely possible that she has this information for income tax purposes. I obviously don't know your income tax business - but the other number could be an account number. Who knows what she needs it for - but that part doesn't seem at all concerning to me.
The other side of the note however is, as another poster pointed out, the domain for sprint's mobile text messaging via e-mail. All she needs is to know the person's telephone number and can e-mail them to their phone all day. But that too could be completely innocuous.
For YEARS, my H believed I was cheating on him. Everything I did was a red flag to him. I wasn't. However, the constant barrage of "you're cheating" kept me thinking it was a guilty conscience... and I found evidence that suggested he was cheating on me - which he claims he wasn't.
The way that ended was that the OW snuck in, played on his insecurities, convinced him I was cheating, and they started a PA. Then she convinced me that he was cheating (but not with her) and after I found evidence that he was less than faithful (responding to sex ads online), I began a revenge/exit PA.
And now I'm here.
Bottom line - drop the spying and suspicion. You might not like to hear this - but if she's screwing some OM/OW, she's going to do it whether you like it or not. She's going to hide it. She's going to get very good at hiding it. But eventually, she will slip up and you will know. If she isn't - you just look like an a$$hole for constantly spying and accusing her.
Either you want to work on this marriage or you don't. Spying and suspicion aren't working on the marriage. Someone has to take the first step. Give us all a valid reason why it shouldn't be you... And if you have a valid reason, it sure as h*ll ain't going to be her - so get it over with and file for divorce.
Well...I didn't do ANY of this spying until I accidentally stumbled onto her emails to the one guy, in October. But...I am trying to not let the "red flags" get to me. It's not like she hasn't GIVEN me reason to be suspicious though. I'm not just making this stuff up in my head.
That being said. You are right....she will do what she will do. I need to focus on what I will do. Work on the marriage...and if nothing changes.....file and move on. It sounds easy in the light of day....and most days it is. Then....I trigger on something....and BAM!
Because it's entirely possible she deleted the app.
When I was in my PA, I had another e-mail address. I would add it to my phone when I left my house and delete it on my way home. Same with apps that I used to communicate.
It's not that hard to hide these things if you really want to.
And frankly, way back when my H was accusing me of cheating - I would test him to find out what he was doing because he would always blow his cover. And if I suspected or found a VAR in my car, I wouldn't be above borrowing a phone from someone or from my office (if they were available) and having a totally innocent conversation - knowing he was listening - and waiting for him to flip out so that I could show him how p*ssed off I was about the VAR.
I also would totally leave my cell phone in my desk drawer all day because it was GPSed and I knew it. No matter what I was doing. I don't like being spied on. By my boss or my H. It sucks to feel like you are being watched and listened to all the time and know that someone is constantly analyzing what your saying and trying to find ways to twist it on you.
Because it's entirely possible she deleted the app.
When I was in my PA, I had another e-mail address. I would add it to my phone when I left my house and delete it on my way home. Same with apps that I used to communicate.
It's not that hard to hide these things if you really want to.
And frankly, way back when my H was accusing me of cheating - I would test him to find out what he was doing because he would always blow his cover. And if I suspected or found a VAR in my car, I wouldn't be above borrowing a phone from someone or from my office (if they were available) and having a totally innocent conversation - knowing he was listening - and waiting for him to flip out so that I could show him how p*ssed off I was about the VAR.
I also would totally leave my cell phone in my desk drawer all day because it was GPSed and I knew it. No matter what I was doing. I don't like being spied on. By my boss or my H. It sucks to feel like you are being watched and listened to all the time and know that someone is constantly analyzing what your saying and trying to find ways to twist it on you.
I think she's playing head games with you.
You're pretty good at this. You've got it all down pat. Thanks for the perspective.
Okay... I've been following your thread for sometime and now feel like I should chime in..
The 20# is likely an EIN. When you apply for an EIN online, they start with a 20 (or at least they did a couple years ago). It's entirely possible that she has this information for income tax purposes. I obviously don't know your income tax business - but the other number could be an account number. Who knows what she needs it for - but that part doesn't seem at all concerning to me.
The other side of the note however is, as another poster pointed out, the domain for sprint's mobile text messaging via e-mail. All she needs is to know the person's telephone number and can e-mail them to their phone all day. But that too could be completely innocuous.
For YEARS, my H believed I was cheating on him. Everything I did was a red flag to him. I wasn't. However, the constant barrage of "you're cheating" kept me thinking it was a guilty conscience... and I found evidence that suggested he was cheating on me - which he claims he wasn't.
The way that ended was that the OW snuck in, played on his insecurities, convinced him I was cheating, and they started a PA. Then she convinced me that he was cheating (but not with her) and after I found evidence that he was less than faithful (responding to sex ads online), I began a revenge/exit PA.
And now I'm here.
Bottom line - drop the spying and suspicion. You might not like to hear this - but if she's screwing some OM/OW, she's going to do it whether you like it or not. She's going to hide it. She's going to get very good at hiding it. But eventually, she will slip up and you will know. If she isn't - you just look like an a$$hole for constantly spying and accusing her.
Either you want to work on this marriage or you don't. Spying and suspicion aren't working on the marriage. Someone has to take the first step. Give us all a valid reason why it shouldn't be you... And if you have a valid reason, it sure as h*ll ain't going to be her - so get it over with and file for divorce.
Totally agree. Stop all the suspicion. You don't know that she has another "secret" phone. Now, you're chasing numbers and codes. Is this how you want to spend you life? All you're going to do is decrease the trust in your marriage even more and make her more resentful. Yes, you caught her in an EA almost turned PA once. She's told you she's unhappy with you. She is doing little to work on this marriage. She doesn't want to sleep with you. I hate to say it, I still think she's in this marriage at this point because she is afraid of supporting herself and the kids on her income. It just doesn't sound like you two have made any progress.
Guys...my promotion this year made me a controller for an international firm...with offices in China, UK, and the Middle East. I am frequently on conference calls with these parts of the world, in the evening. Also....I spend so much time putting out fires during the day....I need time in the evening to do substantive work. This year was incredibly difficult because it took me four months to find my replacement....meaning I did BOTH jobs. Even after I found my replacement....I'm STILL trying to get him up to speed. So...this year...I've been unbelievably busy. But the light of day is coming.
That being said......for years I tried to compromise with her. Just stay up until 10:00 - 11:00...we can both go to bed. She wouldn't. Understand....that through 2008...she was a SAHM. So...I just couldn't understand it. Maybe something we can work on during MC.
I understand having to work in the evening with your type of job. One of my friends is an auditor and had to work until 2 in the morning for years on end. Of course, her marriage fell apart. And while people said she should have just got another job, she had $150K in student loans to pay back - she couldn't just get another job...so I understand that.
However, even when she was a SAHM she wouldn't stay up late with you. DG, if you were a friend looking in, what would that tell you? She doesn't want an intimacy with you. Hasn't it been years since you've had sex?
Conversations caught on VAR that don't show up on the cell phone bill equals what exactly? That in addition to the red flags. I look at the totality of the case, as my instructors taught me. Posted via Mobile Device
So what if she has a secret phone and is cheating? He can't make her stop. Why should he spend his time chasing after shadows?
You're pretty good at this. You've got it all down pat. Thanks for the perspective.
Honestly - I see some of myself in his wife.
The more my H pushed [after the affairs], the more I withdrew.
Additionally, back before the affairs on both sides, he would say things to me that I took to heart and that really hurt me... and those things caused me to lose desire for intimacy with him. The more I withdrew, the more he thought I was cheating. The more he thought I was cheating, the more I suspected him. The more I suspected him, the more I withdrew.
Ugly, vicious cycle.
DG: As I think about this, it becomes clearer to me. The advice I would give is this:
Go to your wife. Tell her that you have been spying and watching and listening and that you think you both know that. And that you know that if she is going to cheat, there is nothing you can do about it. Either way, the spying is stopping here and now. That you want to repair your marriage. That you are listening and you want her to tell you what it is that has caused her to pull away. Then sit and listen. Do not speak. Listen. Do not defend your actions. No matter how petty her grievances are (and they will be petty, likely).
It was all the little things over 14 years that slowly built up the wall of resentment I had. It took a million (exaggerating) little bricks to build the pyramids. And it's taking a million little things to slowly tear down my wall - but it all starts with listening.
Here is my read: your spouse feels like she is broken and beaten down. You are more like her bullying older brother than a loving husband so she has done what she can to protect yourself. Doing the "180" only adds to the aloofness that she feels from you. The ultimatium divorce note you gave her a couple of weeks ago felt like more bullying. Try viewing her as wounded. How would you treat her. Try to care for her without keeping score, without trying to respond to each criticism with justifications. It may be real telling to see what she said when she reached out to others. Not from a perspective to catch her in anything but to understand what she is feeling and thinking. Just my thoughts. Apologize if I offend.
The problem is that she is not responsive with these types of discussions. Lack of communication seems to be the main issue in their marriage.
This also has to be addressed in MC. And apparently she is more open in MC, which means a perfect time to practice opening up to one another.
THIS! I've tried the communicating....I've done the "I'm listening" thing. Nothing. So...I agree...and am TRYING to not let the demons loose in my head...about what is she up to. If she'd just have a normal conversation with me....."hey...how was your day? I dealt with ##### today....sucked. Also had to ######......"...etc. I was going to insert "yadda yadda yadda"...but that didn't end well for George Kastanza, in Seinfeld.
But...since we don't really have those conversations.....60% of her day is nothing but a cone of silence to me.
Anyway....hopefully the MC sessions will draw her out. Lord knows, I was never really able to. Being more open about ones days, does WONDERS for allaying fears for the spouse.
The problem is that she is not responsive with these types of discussions. Lack of communication seems to be the main issue in their marriage.
This also has to be addressed in MC. And apparently she is more open in MC, which means a perfect time to practice opening up to one another.
I wasn't either. Never said the discussion couldn't take place in MC. I think MC is a perfect place to have this discussion. If that's a safe place for her to speak. As long as she can see that he is listening and not going to interrupt and defend, she will talk.
I also think it's key to not bring it up later. Just do what you can to fix the issues. For ex... she obviously hates that you mistreat the cat. It's a defenseless animal who was brought into your home to be loved and cared for. It was like the cat said - "Hey you know what would tick off your H? Bring me home because he's allergic! I'll throw up on the floor because that'll really get him going!!" So don't "push it away with your foot", which we all know means that you essentially kick the cat. Let it be. Feed the stupid thing. Clean up the puke. Don't cuddle with it or do anything that would set off your allergies. However, showing a bit of effort and doing something you don't want to do (with your wife knowing that you are allergic and that you don't want to do it, so it IS a sacrifice on your behalf), could speak volumes to your wife.
You might be surprised at the reaction of your wife to these small simple steps.
If she'd just have a normal conversation with me....."hey...how was your day? I dealt with ##### today....sucked. Also had to ######......"...etc.
I didn't talk about this stuff with my H either. I figured he knows nothing about the industry in which I work, so I'm just speaking gibberish to him and that he really didn't want to hear about work... because I really didn't want to hear about work from him and he's speaking gibberish to me when he talks about his job.
He seems really surprised when I have nothing to say because there's nothing in my day that I think would be interesting to him... or there's just nothing in my day that's interesting. There's lots of days that I don't want to relive my workday when I get home.
And if she's resentful about junk from the past, she doesn't care how your day went. Another thought is this... you are now this "big important international affairs guy who talks to Japan and other countries until late in the evening", while she is an HR Director for a small company... how can you each relate to each other's days?
I wasn't either. Never said the discussion couldn't take place in MC. I think MC is a perfect place to have this discussion. If that's a safe place for her to speak. As long as she can see that he is listening and not going to interrupt and defend, she will talk.
I also think it's key to not bring it up later. Just do what you can to fix the issues. For ex... she obviously hates that you mistreat the cat. It's a defenseless animal who was brought into your home to be loved and cared for. It was like the cat said - "Hey you know what would tick off your H? Bring me home because he's allergic! I'll throw up on the floor because that'll really get him going!!" So don't "push it away with your foot", which we all know means that you essentially kick the cat. Let it be. Feed the stupid thing. Clean up the puke. Don't cuddle with it or do anything that would set off your allergies. However, showing a bit of effort and doing something you don't want to do (with your wife knowing that you are allergic and that you don't want to do it, so it IS a sacrifice on your behalf), could speak volumes to your wife.
You might be surprised at the reaction of your wife to these small simple steps.
First off...I do NOT mistreat the cat. I say "damn cat" under my breath...."hate that damn cat"...under my breath......and "this POS cat just retched in the living room again"...loudly. But..I don't mistreat the cat. Sure...I used to make if fall off the bed, when it attacked my feet in the middle of the night. But....it's a freak'n CAT...they land on their feet.....ALWAYS. I'll do all kinds of things for my wife. In fact...there's probably not a lot I WOULDN'T do for my wife. BUT...I draw the line with the cat. I didn't want it...we made a deal.....she needs to stick to it. There is absolutely no reason why I should be FORCED to do anything for the cat. I'm sure there are all kinds of other things I could do for her, to try and speak volumes. And NO...I do not kick the cat. I PUSH it out from under me, at the dinner table ....cause it keeps going to ME to rub against. It isn't forceful...it's just "go away."
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Re: Pretty Much Have Lost It 
