I'm going to make an observation...if someone were to say "why are you yelling at me" and the person responds that the kids are driving them crazy, and the person says again "why are you yelling at me", it's not helpful, it's patronizing, and somewhat demeaning. It's like you don't care about her feelings, it's about what you are feeling. Instead, say, "ok, I see you're angry, how about I finish the dishes (or whatever), and we'll talk about what's going on". No, she shouldn't take her anger on you, you're right, but the way you deal with it isn't all that healthy. Right there, she was opening up and telling you why she was angry, something you so desperately need from her, and you turned it around and made that statement, it discredits her feelings.
just saying...
I think I have to disagree with this. To put what others have said in a different way, you can not reward her bad behavior. She is an adult and should act like one. Yelling at DG because the kids are driving her crazy is not adult behavior and is not appropriate. Treating it like it is, or being willing to discuss the issues when she is treating him poorly will not discourage her from treating him poorly (in this case yelling at him).
My kids were driving me nuts awhile back. Something came up that my wife and I were working on that frustrated me, and I started to raise my voice at her. She pasued and gave me a look that said "do you want to rephrase that?" I thought about it, quickly apologized and said that between the kids and the situation, I am frustrated. I am not mad at you and am sorry I yelled. She quickly accepted my apology and than we talked through the issue to work on resolving it. Had I continued yelling, she would have rightly walked away. If I can't act like an adult to my spouse, I don't deserve to have her help me. I don't see why DG should do differently.
I'm a dog person myself but my wife has a cat she adores. I keep telling her how much I dislike her cat but when she isn't around the cat crawls into my lap and purrs while I give her some love. Shhhh, don't tell my wife though.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
My husband is a dog person and he wasn't all too fond of cats. Nowadays he can't sleep without all his kitties gathered around him in the bed - he used to be mildly allergic but not anymore. I swear, it just went away.
As for getting a big, big dog: I have two large dogs and neither of them like cats. The dogs stay out of the cats' way, they won't look at them, they won't sniff them, they won't bother them at all - because the know better!
We love them all. Each of them has their own lovable personality and I guess that's why we put up with them.
DG,
You sound like a decent guy - so take this in the spirit it is intended. An objective third party view of a very sad situation.
Honestly I am a little confused. Help me out here. You got married when she was approx: 26 and you were 37. Both at peak health, youth and sexuality.
You went on a 2 week honeymoon - and for 2 full weeks she rejected you sexually. From what you post, even your early years of marriage were bad in that regard despite having no kids and minimal financial issues.
And when she talks about the marriage to the other man she says there wasn't much to begin with. Actually what she said to "him" about the beginning (that there wasn't much there) and how she behaved towards you back then are TOTALLY CONSISTENT.
I am not questioning that you loved her. But lets be honest here. You go to a tropical paradise with a woman you describe as ABSOLUTELY STUNNING and she doesn't have sex with you for 2 weeks. How could that have felt - for YOU?
Didn't that make you stop and wonder "Does she love me? Does she actually WANT to be married to me"?
You talk about divorce and it is obvious you believe she will remarry quickly and will have a lot of options. And you are not quite so optimistic about what will happen to you. But the odd thing to me is this: Is having arm candy more important to you than being with someone who really loves you?
If I had to summarize your 100 page thread:
You ALWAYS felt you married above yourself and were afraid to rock the boat even when she treated you VERY badly. From DAY 1 she felt she married beneath herself and was TOTALLY comfortable treating you accordingly.
ALL the rest is simply the "details" of how that dynamic played out and continues to play out.
BTW: Her desire to go to DW when you are so strapped for cash you can't "afford to divorce" is simply history repeating itself. The only difference between the DW trip and your honeymoon is that this time she is telling you IN ADVANCE that sex is off the table.
I read this quote once, always wondered if it was mostly humor or mostly true.
Belladonna: In English a deadly poison, in Spanish a beautiful woman. This demonstrates the striking similarities between the languages.
I think I have to disagree with this. To put what others have said in a different way, you can not reward her bad behavior. She is an adult and should act like one. Yelling at DG because the kids are driving her crazy is not adult behavior and is not appropriate. Treating it like it is, or being willing to discuss the issues when she is treating him poorly will not discourage her from treating him poorly (in this case yelling at him).
My kids were driving me nuts awhile back. Something came up that my wife and I were working on that frustrated me, and I started to raise my voice at her. She pasued and gave me a look that said "do you want to rephrase that?" I thought about it, quickly apologized and said that between the kids and the situation, I am frustrated. I am not mad at you and am sorry I yelled. She quickly accepted my apology and than we talked through the issue to work on resolving it. Had I continued yelling, she would have rightly walked away. If I can't act like an adult to my spouse, I don't deserve to have her help me. I don't see why DG should do differently.
I was just making a point that it's not good communication, it's not helpful that's all.
What I find strange about Daily's story (no, not a troll), is that he had a very passionate relationship with her prior to marriage. Besides getting married, what went wrong?
I was just making a point that it's not good communication, it's not helpful that's all.
What I find strange about Daily's story (no, not a troll), is that he had a very passionate relationship with her prior to marriage. Besides getting married, what went wrong?
Geez....I wish I knew. The first couple years were loving...but not much sex. I've stated a few times, in this thread...she just always had such a small window of opportunity...and always complaining of being tired/headache/stomach ache.
I had a conversation with my wife tonight about going to the doctor. I did some google searches and found that sleep apnea could explain a lot of her physical symptoms:
>Waking up with a very sore and/or dry throat
>Occasionally waking up with a choking or gasping sensation
>Sleepiness or lack of energy during the day
>Morning headaches
>Restless sleep
>Irritability
>Forgetfulness, mood changes, and a decreased interest in sex
>Recurrent awakenings or insomnia
I've been dealing with her having these symptoms pretty much our entire relationship. She doesn't snore....so I never would have thought this an issue for her. ME...yes...cause I snore...but not her. But, I read tonight that up to 30% of sleep apnea sufferers don't snore. Since our youngest child, it has been worse. I honestly thought she might have depression (similar symptoms.) She very well might.....but I couldn't imagine her receiving that thought well from me. BUT....Sleep Apnea....if I can get her to go to the doctor for THAT.....at LEAST it gives the doctor a chance to diagnose her problems. I've begged her to go to the doctor so many times. She just won't.
Anyway...this might have bearing on the sex life...and to some degree our dynamic (hard to be upbeat when the spouse is constantly irritable. But...it doesn't explain her EA...or history rewrite. Trust me...I think I've laid out all my demons to you guys. I have not other explanations for how/why things went south.
DG,
You sound like a decent guy - so take this in the spirit it is intended. An objective third party view of a very sad situation.
Honestly I am a little confused. Help me out here. You got married when she was approx: 26 and you were 37. Both at peak health, youth and sexuality.
You went on a 2 week honeymoon - and for 2 full weeks she rejected you sexually. From what you post, even your early years of marriage were bad in that regard despite having no kids and minimal financial issues.
And when she talks about the marriage to the other man she says there wasn't much to begin with. Actually what she said to "him" about the beginning (that there wasn't much there) and how she behaved towards you back then are TOTALLY CONSISTENT.
I am not questioning that you loved her. But lets be honest here. You go to a tropical paradise with a woman you describe as ABSOLUTELY STUNNING and she doesn't have sex with you for 2 weeks. How could that have felt - for YOU?
Didn't that make you stop and wonder "Does she love me? Does she actually WANT to be married to me"?
You talk about divorce and it is obvious you believe she will remarry quickly and will have a lot of options. And you are not quite so optimistic about what will happen to you. But the odd thing to me is this: Is having arm candy more important to you than being with someone who really loves you?
If I had to summarize your 100 page thread:
You ALWAYS felt you married above yourself and were afraid to rock the boat even when she treated you VERY badly. From DAY 1 she felt she married beneath herself and was TOTALLY comfortable treating you accordingly.
ALL the rest is simply the "details" of how that dynamic played out and continues to play out.
BTW: Her desire to go to DW when you are so strapped for cash you can't "afford to divorce" is simply history repeating itself. The only difference between the DW trip and your honeymoon is that this time she is telling you IN ADVANCE that sex is off the table.
I read this quote once, always wondered if it was mostly humor or mostly true.
Belladonna: In English a deadly poison, in Spanish a beautiful woman. This demonstrates the striking similarities between the languages.
To be honest...I can't argue with much of what you say here. I didn't really think I married above me. I thought we were a brilliant match. I guess i question it NOW...cause I'm 49, and she's only 38 (almost). As to questioning her love....I really didn't....during the early years. I questioned her being attracted to me. But, only over the past few years did I start questioning her love. There's definitely a lot to work through...but, as I've stated recently...I'm not giving it forever. As to the no sex during two week honeymoon.....yes....THAT hurt. And the subsequent 12 years of rejection have taken their toll.
As to DW...the only reason it is an option is because I'm due for a possible substantial bonus next month. With my promotion, last year...this is the first year for a bonus...and it could be pretty major. It will, at a minimum, get us completely back on our feet..financially. The extra cash, from the bonus...is either DW...or Legal fees. I've got until early April (I suppose) to determine which.
DG,
Stop making excuses for her. You are going to slowly drive yourself mad.
Your W is healthy enough to go to the gym a few times a week. But not well enough for sex? Or to simply "be nice".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyGrind
Geez....I wish I knew. The first couple years were loving...but not much sex. I've stated a few times, in this thread...she just always had such a small window of opportunity...and always complaining of being tired/headache/stomach ache.
I had a conversation with my wife tonight about going to the doctor. I did some google searches and found that sleep apnea could explain a lot of her physical symptoms:
>Waking up with a very sore and/or dry throat
>Occasionally waking up with a choking or gasping sensation
>Sleepiness or lack of energy during the day
>Morning headaches
>Restless sleep
>Irritability
>Forgetfulness, mood changes, and a decreased interest in sex
>Recurrent awakenings or insomnia
I've been dealing with her having these symptoms pretty much our entire relationship. She doesn't snore....so I never would have thought this an issue for her. ME...yes...cause I snore...but not her. But, I read tonight that up to 30% of sleep apnea sufferers don't snore. Since our youngest child, it has been worse. I honestly thought she might have depression (similar symptoms.) She very well might.....but I couldn't imagine her receiving that thought well from me. BUT....Sleep Apnea....if I can get her to go to the doctor for THAT.....at LEAST it gives the doctor a chance to diagnose her problems. I've begged her to go to the doctor so many times. She just won't.
Anyway...this might have bearing on the sex life...and to some degree our dynamic (hard to be upbeat when the spouse is constantly irritable. But...it doesn't explain her EA...or history rewrite. Trust me...I think I've laid out all my demons to you guys. I have not other explanations for how/why things went south.
This isn't about DW/legal fees IMO. This is about you asserting a boundary you should have enforced on your honeymoon.
A couple simple observations. In a marriage sex is some complex blend of lust and an emotional desire to please. If you have enough of one, you need very little of the other. If you have very little of either you have very little sex.
IME the desire to please is more powerful, longer lasting and more pervasive than raw lust. And where there is a strong desire to please there is almost always a similar desire to avoid causing your partner distress. I would say my W has an "average level" of lust for me. Always has. But man she has a tremendouse emotional desire to please and avoid displeasing. As do I. And that makes for an amazing relationship.
Let me contrast your honeymoon story with one of my own. Five years into our marriage we go to the beach for a week. Rented out a kickin beachfront house. End of the first day she deliberately procrastinates coming upstairs to bed. Hangs around with our guests until really late. She finally comes into the bedroom and I make a very blunt comment about making it clear I wanted to connect, watching her in a bathing suit all day was making me crazy etc. I wasn't just blunt, I was harsh - and yes my tone was out of line.
And this is what happened. She said: "There is something you are doing which is inconsiderate and a big turn off and this is what it is....". I realized she was right, apologized profusely. Fixed the problem completely from that day forward. She saturated me with sex for the next 6 days. BTW - her comment wasn't an excuse. It was totally valid and I was embarrassed and contrite. I guess my point is - if that had happened on our honeymoon it would have gotten resolved the same way - with the same result.
At some point you are going to realize something. Your W really doesn't have: lust, or a desire to please or a desire to avoid displeasing. Just a never ending list of complaints and demands that EVEN IF YOU SATISFY, will simply make you an acceptable servant. Not a loved, and valued life partner.
Start saving money - you are almost 50. Throwing money at this problem isn't going to fix it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyGrind
To be honest...I can't argue with much of what you say here. I didn't really think I married above me. I thought we were a brilliant match. I guess i question it NOW...cause I'm 49, and she's only 38 (almost). As to questioning her love....I really didn't....during the early years. I questioned her being attracted to me. But, only over the past few years did I start questioning her love. There's definitely a lot to work through...but, as I've stated recently...I'm not giving it forever. As to the no sex during two week honeymoon.....yes....THAT hurt. And the subsequent 12 years of rejection have taken their toll.
As to DW...the only reason it is an option is because I'm due for a possible substantial bonus next month. With my promotion, last year...this is the first year for a bonus...and it could be pretty major. It will, at a minimum, get us completely back on our feet..financially. The extra cash, from the bonus...is either DW...or Legal fees. I've got until early April (I suppose) to determine which.
Sex is some powerful stuff - but in a healthy marriage that "stuff" is bi-directional. So in the spirit of reciprocity I have told my W - and shown my W through my actions:
Baby, I always desire you. Always. That said, when you are tired, or sad or anxious. When you are tense or distracted or simply not feeling any desire to connect THAT way, it is my responsibility to be patient and understanding and supportive and loving. And to make sure you know that my love for you is much greater than my lust for you.
And she gets that. And she is greatful. And so, in both striving to put each others needs first, more often than not our disagreements about sex are inverted. With me telling her to relax and connect with me tomorrow. And her insisting that we not wait another night. And sometimes I prevail and sometimes she uses a sharp tone and simply says "shut up and take a shower"....
I'd find your wife tiring. She effed up and you're doing the heavy lifting. Where is that fair? How does that solve problems? The issues you found on her list is bs. If that's all it takes for her to seek attention elsewhere, then you guys never stood a chance. You serve to her and the common courtesy of a thank you makes your day. If that's new - her saying thank you - shame on her.
Common courtesy isn't heavy lifting. It's her being semi-decent instead of cold beeyotch.
You deserve more. Posted via Mobile Device
Well...if this weren't my own life...I'd just have to laugh. I mentioned that I got my wife the iPhone, this past weekend...and how anxious it made me. Well....turns out for good reason...but not for the reason I thought.
I forgot COMPLETELY about this stupid iCloud photo backup thing. Wouldn't you know it....a few weeks back, when I was panicking about some unusual pages in her purse (texting address, and what I thought might be a bank account number)...and an AMEX gift certificate from a senior manager at her company (female.) Well...I took pictures of the stuff with my phone. yup....you see this coming don't you......her phone synced with my iCloud account...and those pictures were on her phone. She hasn't said anything to me about it....but...remember how Monday she seemed pissy? If figures....I STOPPED spying 3 weeks ago....but that time may have caught me. I can't imagine she didn't play with her new phone, over the past 3 days...and open the pictures up. There were only about 20 pictures on the photo stream...4 were from my spying. I only realized it when I opened that folder on MY phone...and saw the pictures. I knew her phone was setup to sync with the iCloud...and realized they would be on HER phone too.
I've deleted them now....but it would make sense, now, why she seems to be in a bad mood (remember I even asked her on Monday why she was mad at me) this whole week. Well...I guess she knows I know about the gift certificate. {sigh} two steps forward, three steps back. I just don't think I have the energy for this rollercoaster anymore.
180Likes
Re: Pretty Much Have Lost It 
