Tall Average Guy

But that is not why you are doing it here. You want that appreciation and you are upset that you don't get it. When you hold a door for someone and they don't say anything, do you give them a sarcastic "your welcome" or do you let it go? with your wife, you were prepared to the email version of that sarcasm. Why?

If you don't do it for the appreciation, why are you constantly upset over the lack of appreciation? If she is not showing appreciation, why are you not willing to entertain the idea that she does not want you to do those things and thus you should stop doing them?

Why does this upset you but her failure to do anything to help you regain your trust in her?

DailyGrind

Sometimes.

Tall Average Guy

Then how are you not doing it for the appreciation?

DailyGrind

Because I'd still do it, knowing I won't get an appreciation. But...I'll still grumble about not getting it. The two things are separate. I will hold a door...because that's how I was raised...and I believe in being courteous. I'll be irked about not being thanked, because that is rude. It's subtle...I admit. But then...that's just my personal quirk. I would never dream to not thank someone for doing something for me. Not because I felt I owed them...but because it is courteous....and part of my nature. I guess...if there were some way for someone to convey they were thankful, without actually expressing it...I'd be fine with that. But to ignore my doing something for someone....to me...means I didn't even matter enough to be given a second thought. I can accept that from strangers. I can't, from someone I know. I don't know any other way to say it. Just how I feel.

tennisstar

You sound like you're really trying and doing all you can. It just sounds like she's done. I can understand you want to give this your all for another month or so, but you also need to mentally prepare yourself that this most likely will end in divorce. You may want to start preparing yourself financially as well. I hate to say that, but your wife doesn't seem to be coming around. Remember, life is short. Don't waste it with someone who doesn't want to be with you.
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Tall Average Guy

I do understand that. What I am trying to get at is that it likely comes across as a transaction to your wife. You doing something not because you want to but because you then expect something in return. That does not work.

Having said all of that, the big elephant in the room is the her affair and your lack of trust. So even if your behavior has not been optimal, she still needs to be making an effort. She is not, and it is not clear she ever will. I suggest that you insist that be the issue in your next MC.

DailyGrind

Good advice. Thanks.

chapparal

Have the two of you done the Five Love Languages test on line?

Seriously consider a new marriage counselor. At least talk to him/her about your concerns. There are a lot of examples here of bad counselors.

On a radio program (Focus on the Family) this morning a counselor said every time a husband touches his wife , oxytocin is released in her bloodstream, even when her husband patted her on the head. Couldn't believe she used that as an example, I've been patting my wife on the head all night LOL. Women need overt affection are you showing her that as described in His Needs Her Needs? Does she not allow you to touch her.

If she was really in an EA you should have noticed withdrawal symptoms unless it was an EA and she is still in contact with him.

Do you and your wife disagree on the childrens discipline, can't believe child can disrupt a family outing? Do the kids play you against each other?

Sorry for the rambling.

DailyGrind

@ Chapparal - Yes...we did do the test, over a year ago. Hers were Acts of Service and Quality Time. Both of which I am trying to give her, right now. Mine are Touch and Words of Affirmation. So...I need the physical touch, and the "I love you's." Been over two years now. grrrr.

EA withdrawal symptoms. - Not exactly sure what symptoms would have been evident. She did stop going to the gym. She was not near as friendly, as she has been over the past month. If she is still in contact...it would be with that magical "other phone" I was never able to find.

I don't think we disagree too much on the children discipline. We do disagree on what constitutes aggregious behavior, on their part. She seems to have little patience for the antics. Oddly, most times I am way more understanding of the "kids will be kids" thing. As for the disrupted outing....our littlest D is VERY stuborn. And she's had a cold all week. So, when I was enforcing 'no more french fries until you eat your main food'....she through a fit. After half an hour, we had to bail......she was disrupting the entire restaurant. Normally, although she is the more stuborn one......she's also the most happy-go-lucky, as well. But....with a cold....she was not a happy camper.

Thanks.

chapparal

You didn't mention if you touch her at all.

working_together

Daily, I really think you need to take charge of the next MC, and when the MC tries to side step it or whatever, tell her that you really need to discuss how your wife feels about the relationship, how she cannot even tell you she loves you, not in two years. Your wife really needs to speak up and be specific about what exactly stresses her out about your complaints about work, it`s a fairly normal occurance in a marriage I think. The other thing I would want to know is what exactly does she mean when she says she has no time to think about you and her as a couple. You need to ask these questions. And ask her if she likes it when you do nice things for her, or does she feel it`s too much. There needs to be more communication on both sides.

I think I`m starting to agree with others in that she is done with the marriage and is just kind of coasting until either the kids are older, or she sets herself up to financially to leave.

tennisstar

DG, I assume you are still on the same path and nothing new has happened?

DailyGrind

Yeah, thanks....same path, nothing new. I found out last week that I'll have a business trip to Barcelona in June. When my wife found out...she was all..."I wanna go." We talked about it briefly....but...basically....i'm still waiting until my mid-March deadline for her to start coming around. After that...all trips are off. I didn't say that to her...but ...i'm thinking....WHY?? Why in the world would you want to go with me....when you can't even decide you WANT the relationship with me? I guess that is just more of the cake? Well...the bakery shuts down in March. That will be 5 months since D-Day. If she can't decide she wants the relationship by then...I'll decide it for her, I guess.

Beowulf

The sad part is that once you make your decision she may realize what she would be losing and decide to start working on your marriage. By then for you it might be too little too late.

DailyGrind

Yes...we are still going to MC. Our next session is Wednesday afternoon. To be perfectly honest...I really have NO IDEA what she wants. We seem to be getting along okay, now. We've gone on dates, and spend a LOT more time together. I have made quite a few changes to myself, over the past 6 months:

1) I gave up gaming, back in August;
2) Lost about 25 lbs....and still going;
3) I'm in a pool league on Tuesday nights...other than that...I get home right after work, every night;
4) I spend considerable more time doing "family" things;
5) I've pretty much gone cold-turkey on the porn;
6) I've started seeing an IC;
7) I watch my angry outbursts. Can't even remember the last time (over a year);
8) Help out more around the house;
9) I definitely make sure to give her Acts of Service (her major love language);
10) And I take her out on dates.

All these have been consistently done for at least 4 months (if not longer.) So...I'm doing everything I can to meet her emotional needs (not that she has even really discussed them...but reference the list I discovered, back when I was snooping on her.) I even started being NON-disagreeable about the cat.

Although she has been quite a bit nicer with me....she still is not really reaching out to me in any way. As of last MC, she was unable to tell me where her head was. And...instead of discussing any of her bitterness she has with me...she threw out the "I hate it when he talks about work"....red herring.

So....come my deadline (mid-March)...if she is unable to tell me she even WANTS the marriage...I'm backing off. Everything I'm doing (except maybe the acts of service stuff) is for the purpose of me being a better man/father/husband. However, she has to start showing ME something, as well. She seems perfectly content to let me shoulder all the load; as if I was the only issue in the marriage.

Rant off!

EDIT:
At this point...I really have no idea if she is still communicating with her AP. I have no idea if her going cold on me two years ago was due to another EA (I don't think she could have had a PA.) None of her complaints have been really that major.....so, I really just don't understand why she went distant two years ago. If it was another EA....I don't know if it is still going. Can't understand why she would not be responding more favorably to my endeavors, unless she is just gone (but then why would she want to go on trips with me); or she is still in a fog with someone. No evidence...but then....there still is that "other phone" question.