Can someone mail DG a roofie. Or if it is illegal in his state take one with you to Barcelona along with the wife.
You will get sex and the truth from her in one shot.
All kidding aside, make your decision. It is no longer hers in a few more days.
She has tortured you enough and no one deserves that.
You can quit the marriage knowing you tried every avenue to get her to open up. All she did was stay "dry" and have an EA. Oh yeah, she wants to go to DW too.
Take Bandit45 with you. He needs a vacation.
You deserve one too. Just you and the kids.
It is almost time DG. It is your decision to make and frankly you deserve better.
Your wife has issues, there is no question about that. She is also very selfish.
Good Luck Buddy. Stay strong and determined to get to a better path.
I have a question for the ladies reading this since I am a man and a bit older than most here I expect.
Say DG and his wife is divorced. You have been dating a short period of time. You really like him and are thinking this could be the real thing. But you wouldn't call it love quite yet. He also has 50/50 custody of his kids.
DG decides to take you to dinner to meet his kids. Everything starts out great. Two thirds the way through the meal the kids start acting up.......badly. DG can't get them to stop. Abruptly, DG annuounces if the kids can't act any better than that everyone will just leave and go home. If DG can't control his kids at dinner in a public place, or anywhere else for that matter, would you consider marrying him?
IMHO this reeks of beta not Alpa behavior. I now think this is a leadership problem. I have been where the other posters are on this thread. But now, I am haveing big doubts about who carries most of the responsibility for this situation.
Like BryanP might say, if your kids don't respect you , who will?
I have a question for the ladies reading this since I am a man and a bit older than most here I expect.
Say DG and his wife is divorced. You have been dating a short period of time. You really like him and are thinking this could be the real thing. But you wouldn't call it love quite yet. He also has 50/50 custody of his kids.
DG decides to take you to dinner to meet his kids. Everything starts out great. Two thirds the way through the meal the kids start acting up.......badly. DG can't get them to stop. Abruptly, DG annuounces if the kids can't act any better than that everyone will just leave and go home. If DG can't control his kids at dinner in a public place, or anywhere else for that matter, would you consider marrying him?
IMHO this reeks of beta not Alpa behavior. I now think this is a leadership problem. I have been where the other posters are on this thread. But now, I am haveing big doubts about who carries most of the responsibility for this situation.
Like BryanP might say, if your kids don't respect you , who will?
Isn't up and leaving alpha? You can't make someone, even children behave.
If he didn't freak on them, beat their asses, and just offered up a consequence and followed through, I'd personally be impressed. I'm a mom of a 20, 16 and 4 and 1 year old. The older two were awesome in public - the younger two - not so much. Posted via Mobile Device
DG, if you're reading this and you haven't gotten laid, get off this thread and stay off TAM for now. Focus on the task at hand. This back and forth is of no use to you for tonight.
I have a question for the ladies reading this since I am a man and a bit older than most here I expect.
Say DG and his wife is divorced. You have been dating a short period of time. You really like him and are thinking this could be the real thing. But you wouldn't call it love quite yet. He also has 50/50 custody of his kids.
DG decides to take you to dinner to meet his kids. Everything starts out great. Two thirds the way through the meal the kids start acting up.......badly. DG can't get them to stop. Abruptly, DG annuounces if the kids can't act any better than that everyone will just leave and go home. If DG can't control his kids at dinner in a public place, or anywhere else for that matter, would you consider marrying him?
IMHO this reeks of beta not Alpa behavior. I now think this is a leadership problem. I have been where the other posters are on this thread. But now, I am haveing big doubts about who carries most of the responsibility for this situation.
Like BryanP might say, if your kids don't respect you , who will?
I think the problem is that we are only hearing from DG side of things. That is not meant to mean that he is being untruthful but he may not understand what his wife is looking for. I also realize that she may not have expressly stated what she wants but from my experience many times women don't know exactly what they want they only know how they feel. She may be giving out silent messages that DG can't seem to pick up on. Again, that is not necessarily his fault but they seem to be stuck in an emotional quagmire and neither one knows the best way to extricate themselves. Maybe I've been watching too much Dr. Phil.
DG,
I don't mean to try to get you into a long dissertation but the way I see it there are two basic mindsets here.
1) She married you not because she loved you but she felt she wasn't going to do better. In that case the resentment will never go away barring some sudden epiphany on the part of your wife.
2) She did love you but things have gone downhill for so long she can't remember why she felt that way. In turn even though you have tried you still (understandably) have resentment and you are unsure of yourself. In that case she also doesn't like the wishy washy person she thinks you are.
If its #2 then there is hope that you can both improve the relationship. Maybe these questions will help you see things clearly and give us a better understanding of what you might not have done or need to repair from your side.
Try to describe your wife's personality as objectively as you can.
would you describe your wife as submissive? With you? With others?
is she extremely moody? if so can you think was she always like this or did it start recently?
what gets her excited? does she ever seem enthusiastic about anything?
when was the last time you took her out on a date? what was her mood/reaction?
thinking logically and without trying to instill blame, what would you say is the one thing about you that your wife has always seemed to have a problem with? Not just recently but always. Have you ever tried to change that aspect of yourself? Did she ever acknowledge the change?
You said you aren't the man you were before. What did you change and why? How did you change it?
I think the problem is that we are only hearing from DG side of things. That is not meant to mean that he is being untruthful but he may not understand what his wife is looking for. I also realize that she may not have expressly stated what she wants but from my experience many times women don't know exactly what they want they only know how they feel. She may be giving out silent messages that DG can't seem to pick up on. Again, that is not necessarily his fault but they seem to be stuck in an emotional quagmire and neither one knows the best way to extricate themselves. Maybe I've been watching too much Dr. Phil.
DG,
I don't mean to try to get you into a long dissertation but the way I see it there are two basic mindsets here.
1) She married you not because she loved you but she felt she wasn't going to do better. In that case the resentment will never go away barring some sudden epiphany on the part of your wife.
2) She did love you but things have gone downhill for so long she can't remember why she felt that way. In turn even though you have tried you still (understandably) have resentment and you are unsure of yourself. In that case she also doesn't like the wishy washy person she thinks you are.
If its #2 then there is hope that you can both improve the relationship. Maybe these questions will help you see things clearly and give us a better understanding of what you might not have done or need to repair from your side.
Try to describe your wife's personality as objectively as you can.
would you describe your wife as submissive? With you? With others?
is she extremely moody? if so can you think was she always like this or did it start recently?
what gets her excited? does she ever seem enthusiastic about anything?
when was the last time you took her out on a date? what was her mood/reaction?
thinking logically and without trying to instill blame, what would you say is the one thing about you that your wife has always seemed to have a problem with? Not just recently but always. Have you ever tried to change that aspect of yourself? Did she ever acknowledge the change?
You said you aren't the man you were before. What did you change and why? How did you change it?
"How's that working for ya" as Dr. Phil used to say....
I have a question for the ladies reading this since I am a man and a bit older than most here I expect.
Say DG and his wife is divorced. You have been dating a short period of time. You really like him and are thinking this could be the real thing. But you wouldn't call it love quite yet. He also has 50/50 custody of his kids.
DG decides to take you to dinner to meet his kids. Everything starts out great. Two thirds the way through the meal the kids start acting up.......badly. DG can't get them to stop. Abruptly, DG annuounces if the kids can't act any better than that everyone will just leave and go home. If DG can't control his kids at dinner in a public place, or anywhere else for that matter, would you consider marrying him?
IMHO this reeks of beta not Alpa behavior. I now think this is a leadership problem. I have been where the other posters are on this thread. But now, I am haveing big doubts about who carries most of the responsibility for this situation.
Like BryanP might say, if your kids don't respect you , who will?
Parenting really has nothing to do with being alpha or beta, you can be soft, but consistant, it's the being consistant, following up with consequences that's key, only then will kids behave at home and in public. The other aspect that affects kids behavior is knowing that their parents aren't in the best of places, there doesn't even have to be an arguement for them to feel some tension. Kids need to see affection between parents, that the couple has a loving relationship etc.
I don't see how that would help. The gulf would just grow wider. That would be the ultimate slap in the face. That's how I would consider it.
Taking trips off the table for a wife who can't bring herself to be pleasant to her husband is a slap in the face? That's crazy.
There's no way that DG should reward his wife for her behavior. If you reward bad behavior, you usually get more bad behavior. It doesn't just magically go away, as you seem to believe.
And I completely disagree that she clearly doesn't want to be with him. Maybe but maybe not. She is still there after all.
So the only evidence that she wants to be around him is that she has not left yet? That is surely damning with faint praise.
As best I can see, the only time she has provided any indication that she wants him around is when cool trips are in the works. Whether or not that is intentional on her part, it is certainly a bad sign. I do think emphasizing that their marriage, not these trips, is the most critical issue they face will help clarify where she is truly at.
Number one its a leading question. He asked her if she wanted to move out. Later he asked her why. Her answer....... I thought you wantd me to.
If someone refuses to talk, then you have to ask leading questions. So far, DG's wife has refused to give him any feedback on the primary issues in the marriage. She's not happy, but doesn't know why. Maybe he can do something, maybe he can't. You think communication is paying a counselor $200/hour to stare at each other and try to read minds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapparal
And I completely disagree that she clearly doesn't want to be with him. Maybe but maybe not. She is still there after all.
There is there, and there is there. It's true that she lives in the same house that he does. But she was put off when he came back into the master bedroom. She has talked of needing time and space. There is more to a marriage than proximity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapparal
And the marriage hasn't been sexless unless the stork brought the kids.
Right. She did have sex with him that one time, a few years ago. She should get a cookie.
Parenting really has nothing to do with being alpha or beta, you can be soft, but consistant, it's the being consistant, following up with consequences that's key, only then will kids behave at home and in public.
I disagree. Effective parenting is all about being alpha. Alpha is consistent. Alpha is confident. Only those who misunderstand alpha think it's about being hostile and violent. However, even the most alpha, consistent, wonderful parents in the world will have children who misbehave. Because children have free will.
I have watched my own children weigh the options of misbehaving against punishment, believe that I will punish them because I am consistent, and still choose to misbehave. Oh well. That's their decision. I can't make it for them.
I have a question for the ladies reading this since I am a man and a bit older than most here I expect.
Say DG and his wife is divorced. You have been dating a short period of time. You really like him and are thinking this could be the real thing. But you wouldn't call it love quite yet. He also has 50/50 custody of his kids.
DG decides to take you to dinner to meet his kids. Everything starts out great. Two thirds the way through the meal the kids start acting up.......badly. DG can't get them to stop. Abruptly, DG annuounces if the kids can't act any better than that everyone will just leave and go home. If DG can't control his kids at dinner in a public place, or anywhere else for that matter, would you consider marrying him?
IMHO this reeks of beta not Alpa behavior. I now think this is a leadership problem. I have been where the other posters are on this thread. But now, I am haveing big doubts about who carries most of the responsibility for this situation.
Like BryanP might say, if your kids don't respect you , who will?
Chap...I assume you ask this with regard to my story from a month ago? Not sure how you got Beta out of that story. I thought it was pretty Alpha, myself. DD2 was polishing off her fries.....i wanted her to eat some of her entree. I told her no more fries until she eats the rest. Now....bear in mind she was also coming down with a cold...but she wound up throwing a tantrum. To which, I patiently tried talking to her, tried ignoring her......and finally threatened to take her home, if she didn't stop the bad behavior (she was starting to disrupt OTHER people's dinner.) I was consistent throughout....and she never got her fries. When she didn't stop.....we left....as promised. What is so Beta about that?
I think the problem is that we are only hearing from DG side of things. That is not meant to mean that he is being untruthful but he may not understand what his wife is looking for. I also realize that she may not have expressly stated what she wants but from my experience many times women don't know exactly what they want they only know how they feel. She may be giving out silent messages that DG can't seem to pick up on. Again, that is not necessarily his fault but they seem to be stuck in an emotional quagmire and neither one knows the best way to extricate themselves. Maybe I've been watching too much Dr. Phil.
DG,
I don't mean to try to get you into a long dissertation but the way I see it there are two basic mindsets here.
1) She married you not because she loved you but she felt she wasn't going to do better. In that case the resentment will never go away barring some sudden epiphany on the part of your wife.
2) She did love you but things have gone downhill for so long she can't remember why she felt that way. In turn even though you have tried you still (understandably) have resentment and you are unsure of yourself. In that case she also doesn't like the wishy washy person she thinks you are.
If its #2 then there is hope that you can both improve the relationship. Maybe these questions will help you see things clearly and give us a better understanding of what you might not have done or need to repair from your side.
Try to describe your wife's personality as objectively as you can.
I *think* it is #2....but certainly the recent behavior has me second guessing.
Her personality is introverted, typically unreactive, used to be loving, smart, conservative, shy, judgemental
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
would you describe your wife as submissive? With you? With others?
Absolutely not. One thing I always knew about my wife. She pretty much goes with the flow, never seemed to get bothered by much. BUT...she would never do something if she didn't want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
is she extremely moody? if so can you think was she always like this or did it start recently?
She is very irritable, most of the time now. (for years...pretty much since DD2 was born) No...she wasn't like that before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
what gets her excited? does she ever seem enthusiastic about anything?
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
when was the last time you took her out on a date? what was her mood/reaction?
Two weeks ago. We had a good time. She seemed very friendly and enjoyable to be with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
thinking logically and without trying to instill blame, what would you say is the one thing about you that your wife has always seemed to have a problem with? Not just recently but always. Have you ever tried to change that aspect of yourself? Did she ever acknowledge the change?
I used to have an anger problem. Not with her...but typically myself. If I was working on something, or trying to accomplish something...and having difficulty, I pretty much started expressing through curses, and anger. Never AT people....more at myself. But....over the past two years, I've made GREAT strides in not showing anger. I rarely do anymore.
But she's also made comments that I was sometimes curt with her. I've tried watching that, over the past two years. But...let's face it...we all get curt with people, sometimes. So it won't go away entirely....but I try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf
You said you aren't the man you were before. What did you change and why? How did you change it
Anger: (reference above)...just through self-awareness.
Stopped online gaming last August....taking up too much of my time.
Stopped porn....obvious reasons.
Started spending more time with kids...putting off work-related activities until they've gone to bed.
Started working out.
Just, in general, trying to be more empathetic with her...even if I don't always agree.
Taking trips off the table for a wife who can't bring herself to be pleasant to her husband is a slap in the face? That's crazy.
There's no way that DG should reward his wife for her behavior. If you reward bad behavior, you usually get more bad behavior. It doesn't just magically go away, as you seem to believe.
I agree...I need to take the trip off the table. What I'm trying to figure out is how to do that, without it sounding like a penalty.
To make matters worse....kids are talking about Disney. I'm not sure WHY suddenly they were talking about it this morning, on way to school. Wanted to know if we were going to fly. Was it still in May. I just kept responding....we're trying/hope so/etc.
I wonder if she has a mood disorder or maybe Aspergers. Aspies, like my sister are very withdrawn and introverted. They also shy away from loud noises and yelling.
Might be something to consider. Posted via Mobile Device
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