I hope this isn't long...but apologize if it is. I've posted before about problems with my wife. And have pretty much spent the past year, off and on reading through these posts...looking for something that could help my situation. Things have taken a dramatic turn, so I can no longer simply ignore the clanging alarms in my marriage.
My wife and I have been emotionally gone for over two years. By that...I mean she was gone. I've tried a number of times to reach out to her...but she just wasn't there. I finally gave up. We get along, on a day to day basis...but totally only on the surface. We just "celebrated" our 12th anniversary. By that...once again...I remembered...and she did not. I got her a massage/manicure/pedicure at the spa. A three hour treatment. She....did nothing...and didn't even thank me.
We have NEVER really argued, in the past (part of our problem, I suppose.) We both just do our little snide retortes, and run. We never address our issues. I think, last weekend, was sort of a turning point. I actually realized I couldn't take it any more, and pushed back. Then, yesterday we were at a outing, where we both had a bit too much.....and the argument sort of flowed. Oddly...in a very low key (pretty much no one could tell) manner. But, I kept getting "your rediculous", "your too sensitive"...to all my issues (like her not even thanking me for the anniversary present....she claims she did....but I just "didn't hear her".....kind of the point of thanking someone, isn't it?)
We have two little adorable kids (6 and 8) who are pretty much why I am still in this thing. THAT...and we can't afford to separate, financially. So...for years now...I've just been ignoring the problems, and not confronting.
After we went to the outing, yesterday....one of the couples there (my wife knows the guy from our daughter's dance class) asked us over to their house, to continue the party. While we were trying to find their house (I had just met them...and my wife had only just met his wife), my wife comes out with..I'll just give him a call. I immediately aske how she had his number...to which she replied .."in case we are going to be late to dance class." I found this odd, as A) the dance class is in the same bldg as my daughter's after-school care; and B)....wouldn't she have the TEACHER's number for that? Why have another father's number?
So...this morning I start snooping my wife's emails...and sure enough....there is something starting up between them. Nothing physical...but definitely signs of an emotional thing starting. Because of that, and our fighting last night...I told my wife (still in bed, due to too much wine last night) that we needed to talk tonight.
Here's my problems:
A) I truly love my wife with all my heart, but things have been SOOOO bad, for so long...I just don't even know if it makes sense. We have been so long from a normal relationship, which I truly long for from her...but I just don't know how to reach out to her. We tried counseling with our minister, last year....but he really didn't do much and nothing changed. We only had 4-5 sessions.
B) She is obviously opening up to this guy, that I just met last night. Nothing sexual, as yet. But a few borderline comments. And...appears to be some history re-writing..and the two lamenting their awful marriages.
C) After I left for work, she emailed the following to this guy after he asked if it was a "divorce/separation" talk (which stings the most):
"I'm pretty certain it will be. I don't think either of us can hang in there. He doesn't really even have a good reason for marrying me. I'm sure he liked the idea of me but never actually liked me and most certainly has never "gotten" me. I can only be nice and take crap for so long. I feel like he has taken advantage of that for many years. And I don't like what it has done to me over the years. If you had something solid to begin with then try to fix things, but I don't think we ever had that. I know I've suggested being unhappy but nothing like this. Sorry to unload. "
This is the woman that I sacrificed years of financial stability to make her dream of owning a business come true. We spent four years, draining my salary (going into debt)...so she could own a store. I worked most weekends, after my full-time job...helping her. I sold my boat, to pay for her store. Finally, we got to the point where we HAD to close it. Then, we wanted a house. I told her she had to get a job, for us to afford one. Our youngest was only one...so she wanted to wait. A year later, we bought the house...but she STILL waited another two years to get a job. I had to BEG her to. MORE financial strain. We are on the cusp of FINALLY getting out of this...which I hoped would help us going forward.
I know I haven't dealt with things properly, between us. But I'm SURE I'm not the only one to blame. I reading her comments above, and I can't believe the anger.
She just posted THIS to the guy:
"It sounds like you've has it pretty rough too. I hope you can get through it. Kids do change things. Its even harder when parents can't be on the same page about how to raise kids. And then there are competitions about who does more. so much resentment over the years. a year and a half ago I decided I was done just taking it and just kind of cut off emotionally but that's a really cold way to live. I was hoping to stay together for the kids but we're just setting a bad example for them. When he was yelling at me Saturday during breakfast poor Emily started to cry, ran over to me and buried her face in my shoulder all the while he continued. After he left she asked if we were going to get a divorce. It was really sad. We tried counseling briefly but it didn't and won't work. "
More history rewriting.....my daught DID start crying, and ran over to my wife...AFTER I left the room. I saw her start welling up, and stopped. Nice way to make me the villian. I yelled at her, cause I'd HAD IT with her condescending comments. I was telling her about me getting Groupon alerts, and some of them were funning. She cut me off, mid-story with "did you subscribe to [Big City] or [Our Suburban Town outside of city]?"...in a real short/snotty way. I replied you can ONLY get [Big City]...they don't cater to every little town. "Well...I've seen them for things in town here.".....like I'm a complete idiot. So, I lost it. I told her she does this to me all the time. She'll see me carrying my daughter's comforter upstairs, from the dryer. Her: "What's that?"
Me: [daughter's] comforter.
Her: "Is it dry?"
WTF???!!! No...I thought I'd put a wet comforter on her bed!!
All the freek'n time!!
Just looking for some advice. Again..sorry for the long post.
Sorry to read all this about your relationship. It appears as if she's gaslighting you a bit here. And the fact that she tells your marriage to another dude... HUGE Red Flag there. Making it sound to him as if you are the only one at fault here.
You are going to take heat for this, but you are going to have to confront her on these emails, screw her reaction, do it now because they are probably already at EA stage, and once the mutual sympathies well up, he will be in her pants. Confront her and tell her to have NC with this dude. Stay firm, because she will try to gaslight you some more. Your situation seems savable, but she has to be willing to do her part.
Sorry to read all this about your relationship. It appears as if she's gaslighting you a bit here. And the fact that she tells your marriage to another dude... HUGE Red Flag there. Making it sound to him as if you are the only one at fault here.
You are going to take heat for this, but you are going to have to confront her on these emails, screw her reaction, do it now because they are probably already at EA stage, and once the mutual sympathies well up, he will be in her pants. Confront her and tell her to have NC with this dude. Stay firm, because she will try to gaslight you some more. Your situation seems savable, but she has to be willing to do her part.
Yes. You must have her go total NC immedialtely. That probably means taking your daughter out of her dance class. Weigh this against the distruption that will be occurring if you do not do this. Expose this to the OMs wife. They are both way out of bounds here.
If you do not do this you are enabling the affair. Time is not on your side. This will end badly if you do nothing.
Instigation - Well on its way however it was started.
Isolation - They are chatting privately about their marriages and coming to agreement that they should not worry about the other spouses. This lays the ground work for the physical affair.
Escalation - It is already escalting
Sorry to read all this about your relationship. It appears as if she's gaslighting you a bit here. And the fact that she tells your marriage to another dude... HUGE Red Flag there. Making it sound to him as if you are the only one at fault here.
You are going to take heat for this, but you are going to have to confront her on these emails, screw her reaction, do it now because they are probably already at EA stage, and once the mutual sympathies well up, he will be in her pants. Confront her and tell her to have NC with this dude. Stay firm, because she will try to gaslight you some more. Your situation seems savable, but she has to be willing to do her part.
You have the added fact that she still has no real financial options other than the marriage. Based on these emails alone, you should demand all passwords and complete transparency, plus marital counseling.
Well...I came home from work early to talk to her. I already knew (from these emails) that she never went to work (too hung over.) It wasn't a great conversation. I didn't want to bring up the emails, because I don't want it to go underground. I can try to head off the proximity thing, by insisting that I pick up my daughter on Wednesday nights.
1) I laid out for her that I knew we were both miserable, and had been for far too long. I accepted some of the blame, but insisted she evaluate her feelings, and come to terms there is plenty to go around.
2) I told her I didn't want to go the divorce route, as it would just break my heart what that would do to the kids.
3) I said it was clear to me that I let the marriage down by not confronting our issues before..and letting them fester. I just didn't know how to deal with it. But I wanted to begin that now.
4) I felt we needed to work on our communication...we don't know how to deal with conflict, with each other. We are both guilty of lashing out.
5) Then I asked her what she wanted.
She told me she isn't sure ...that the marriage has never been great (ouch)...so she's not sure what to work toward. According to her, I always shoot her down, and dramatically controlled her. Everything HAD to be my way....and I'd use nasty tone with her. She got tired of it. I told her I felt she was rewriting history...and not fair. I pointed out the NUMBER of things I capitulated on (not controlling)...
A) she got a cat, early in our marriage...even though I was allergic;
B) she wanted a business...I made it happen;
C) we wanted a house..and I let her extend her "one year" not working...to two and a half;
D) minor things around the house.....I always relinguished detailed stuff....not worth the fights (color of walls, furniture placement, etc.)
She then said she thought we needed space to deal with our own issues, before we could deal with each other. I asked her if that meant separation? She said she didn't see how that was financially possible. She meant she didn't have her own space in the house. She wants to move into the spare room (which is now full of junk.) Now....bare in mind...i've been sleeping on the living room sofa for the past almost two years. HOW MUCH MORE SPACE CAN I GIVE HER?? I then called her out on that. It didn't seem that was a step forward, but rather backward. I asked her if we could re-try counseling. She didn't think that would work..but didn't outright say no.
I then told her...I was fine with giving her more space...but only if we also worked on trying to have fun...AND....she had to stop acting like I didn't exist (start saying hi, goodnight, goodbye, etc.) She said she would. I told her this had to feel like it was for positive results...if she wanted out, she should just walk out the door. I wasn't going to keep supporting her, if she is just biding time. I told her I would start working on a budget for who pays what...and she should get her own checking account. She can start doing her own bills, for a change.
Rather than go right for her actions are unacceptable you told her you would not divorce her and started taking blame.
She of course demanded space. That is what cheaters do. Space is isolation so they can continue the affair. That is what she means by working on her issues. Leave her and the OM alone but do support her financially.
So lets be clear, she has cut this guy off with total NC and has provided you all of her passwords and accounts and there will be total transparency? Or did you just agree to be cuckolded? I am not sure. Are you? This sounds mean but really it comes down to this.
Be aware you cannot control her and c0ckblock by doing the proximity thing. They will meet up somewhere else if they want to. In fact she did not go to work at all. Was she home all day?
You have been sleeping on the sofa for two years? UFB. So essentially your wife is looking for your replacement or at least get her needs met while you support her.
She must end her affair before you can work on the marriage. You need to move back into the bdedroom together not apart. You saying you would not divorce her enabled her affair.
I think it was great to address the issues head on, but it seems like the way it was framed will likely push her closer to the OM. Yes, revealing might push it underground, but given what she has ALREADY declared to the OM, isn't it possible to demand full transparency, with divorce as the alternative? Seems that you possibly caught this early. If so, there is a line where the relationship with the OM takes a irretrievable life of its own.
I think it was great to address the issues head on, but it seems like the way it was framed will likely push her closer to the OM. Yes, revealing might push it underground, but given what she has ALREADY declared to the OM, isn't it possible to demand full transparency, with divorce as the alternative? Seems that you possibly caught this early. If so, there is a line where the relationship with the OM takes a irretrievable life of its own.
I do think I caught it early. The reason I've been sleeping on the couch was originally due to my snoring. But since there was no intimacy....nothing was really done about it. What bothered me was the complete willingness to start down the road to divorce. If we could afford it....I'm afraid it would be happening.
To be honest...I can't completely say that it may not be the right thing for US...just not for the kids. She is right, to some degree....it never was a GREAT marriage. There just always seemed to be something getting between us....her store, finances, kids. I always felt it could be so much more. I just didn't know how to get us there.
I'm trying to figure out this "space" thing. How does having the spare bedroom....when i'm not sleeping in our room...make any difference? What does this accomplish? What could possibly be the motive of this?
Like it or not when your spouse is being unfaithful you are really negotiating. You should never give up all your power when negotiating. So whether you want to actually divorce or not is not the issue. By taking it off the table you essentially said there will be no consequences for you being unfaithful no matter what you do. Bad idea.
So more important than the bedroom situation for now is her going NC with this guy.
I'm trying to figure out this "space" thing. How does having the spare bedroom....when i'm not sleeping in our room...make any difference? What does this accomplish? What could possibly be the motive of this?
Maybe check out the threads in the Coping with Infidelity section, or post one of your own. The 'space' thing is a classic stimulus for seperating herself emotionally from you so that she can jump into the relationship with the other man, or at least explore it.
I know its easy to believe that this can't be happening, and that she is just not this type of person, but think about the types of thoughts that went into being able to send the messages she sent to the other man.
If you send a private message to the moderators, you can request that they move this to the Coping with Infidelity, and you'll get input from dozens of people who do not check out this section.
My quick take on this. You need to throw a hand grenade into it. Blow the whole thing apart. Confront her about the OM, tell her to change dance classes and go NC with the OM or start packing and MEAN IT. I understand what you're trying to do but it sounds to me like the marriage is going to keep crumbling while you try to glue pieces back on. I think on the current course you're just going to eventually end up with a pile of broken pieces. IMO you're only chance is to stop this EA hard and fast and hope there's enough left to rebuild.
Don't reveal you're sources if you confront about the OM and be prepared for her to go crazy and lose it all over you.
My quick take on this. You need to throw a hand grenade into it. Blow the whole thing apart. Confront her about the OM, tell her to change dance classes and go NC with the OM or start packing and MEAN IT. I understand what you're trying to do but it sounds to me like the marriage is going to keep crumbling while you try to glue pieces back on. I think on the current course you're just going to eventually end up with a pile of broken pieces. IMO you're only chance is to stop this EA hard and fast and hope there's enough left to rebuild.
Don't reveal you're sources if you confront about the OM and be prepared for her to go crazy and lose it all over you.
Good luck. Posted via Mobile Device
Keep in mind that when the marriage crumbles, and we don't reverse it, most of the coping behaviors that men adopt are very beta. There is no passion. She sounds like she is trying to get this.
Calm, logical discussions do not trump passion. By being alpha agressive (with compassion), you are solidifying boundaries and possibly attracting her at the same time. Giving her a real alternative to the other man.
Keep in mind that when the marriage crumbles, and we don't reverse it, most of the coping behaviors that men adopt are very beta. There is no passion. She sounds like she is trying to get this.
Calm, logical discussions do not trump passion. By being alpha agressive (with compassion), you are solidifying boundaries and possibly attracting her at the same time. Giving her a real alternative to the other man.
Thanks for all the advice.....though, I'm sure I'll need more..to get through this recovery. However, it DOES look like I found this EA...JUST in time. The OM emailed her this morning, asking how it went. She responded:
"Hi. Actually ok. We talked about it & won't do anything drastic. We will go see someone. I know I said that wouldn't work but maybe it can help us understand the other better & at least keep the peace this time. I guess I do have to admit I have been pretty wicked lately. "
Wow...I think I might have gotten through to her, without having to drop my trump card (the emails.)
Clearly, I have to work on being a better man to her (manning up.) I have to deal with my anger issues...though, I KNOW I've gotten much better over the years. I didn't really use anger on her...other than the occasional sharp tone. But this is what she keeps pointing to as her kryptinite. My anger issues usually were more directed toward inanimate objects I was using, for projects. [Screen door replacement won't go in right....just curse, and throw it to the ground.] Clearly NOT the manned-up persona.
Then we both need to work on our communication. She is such an introvert...I NEVER know what is going on in her head. Even our talk yesterday...I had NO idea whether anything was striking a chord, or not. It is unsettling to not get anything (verbal, body language, anything) as feedback, when trying to address issues.
We are both tired of the game, right now. I still have to maintain vigilance, over the communication with this other guy. I already told her I wanted to pick my daughter up from the dance classes. She was okay with it. I'll see how she responds to this OM, about it...though. There is still a threat, however. My wife is absolutely gorgeous. To be honest, with how we've been getting along for so long...I'm surprised nothing had happened sooner. I was too busy blaming her for our issues, to address my own issues. Don't get me wrong...she has her own, as well. But...all I can do is try to address mine; be a better person/father/husband.
Now...anyone know what kind of therapist I should seek for us? I look up online...there must be 20 different kind of therapists.
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Pretty Much Have Lost It 
