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post #136 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Still, you have posted the emails. You have claimed that you really don't have a lot invested in the marriage. I am not sure why you stay? I don't mean leave because she is a cheater and that'll show her. Instead, I mean that at the end of the day, the result of everything that has happened is that this marriage is not worth keeping.

I often say that marriage and divorce are not rewards or punishments. They are results. Infidelity, abuse, and a whole lot of things also produce results. It seems that if you don't care, and don't have a lot invested in the marriage, a new result needs to be reached.
This is exactly where I'm at right now. As a result of everything that has happened and my growing realization at the low level of engagement and fulfillment I have in the marriage......why stay?

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post #137 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:52 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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And, the main reason for those pos to go after a married woman is:

"Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face."

--------------------------------------------------------------


In my simple mind, it's your responsibility to do "whatever", not your husband's job to go punch him out. Though, if he is that stupid to keep those folks as friends, he may not be worth keeping.

And there is the perspective from those who won't say what they are thinking.

This wasn't meant to stir trouble, but honestly to provide C2 with some outside perspective...and maybe you too, LH? Sounds like you both have some major issues to work through still.
Men like him go for married woman because it is an incredible ego boost. It has nothing to do with the woman as a person just as an achievement. Absolutely nothing at all. This is why they can move on so quickly. They get their self worth from F***ing woman. (Yes it is just plain old F***ing). They have no concept of emotional bonding. Or maybe they are emotional bonded to someone else.

The whole thing is a big bate and switch. It's a con game. Give some nice ego boosting and get to have some sex. "You are the most beautiful woman I have ever met. What we have no one else has ever had. Your husband takes you for granted, if only I could be with you." Meanwhile the husband is helping to pay for the roof on her head, and probably said some of the same stuff, but he really meant it. Then con-man gets some sex and he gets do it with with his friends wife. He thinks I am so much better then him I got his wife to betray him for me. I can put that POA my wall and show my friends sometimes to let them know how great I am. That sounds very crude but that is HIS mindset.

This guy is who these woman give up someone who loves them for. Most woman who fall for guys like this never had a true male role model. A father who told her about guys like this. Who showed her that a true man shows love by actions. She doesn't understand a mans true nature. What a man thinks is proving his love to her. Hence Mr. sliver tongue is the man.

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post #138 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 05:57 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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This is exactly where I'm at right now. As a result of everything that has happened and my growing realization at the low level of engagement and fulfillment I have in the marriage......why stay?
Only thing that is changing right now is your age.
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post #139 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 06:12 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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This is exactly where I'm at right now. As a result of everything that has happened and my growing realization at the low level of engagement and fulfillment I have in the marriage......why stay?
So what is keeping you from leaving?
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post #140 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 07:22 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Cowboy:

I suggest you go read this whole thread. A bit lengthy but well worth the read.

successful rugsweep?

If you're unable to convince your wife how to do what she needs to do to heal you, this is your future.
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post #141 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 07:53 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

@Cowboy2 Leave your marriage if that is what will work for [I ]you[/I].

However, you should not leave your marriage because that is what worked for someone else.


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post #142 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 08:37 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

OP,
It is very evident after 10 pages that you are now aware that you are not reconciling. In the title of this thread you are describing cads and villains, not friends. If your wife were truly remorseful she would clearly see that her "friend" was actually the enemy. Friends don't let friends drive drunk but they "have their backs" as they do other things that are just as damaging to their life?? Where is the difference? If your wife felt true remorse SHE would disassociate herself from these enablers for her own cleansing and for yours.

You mentioned that your wife never had a "drop to her knees begging forgiveness" moment and without that her spirit, compartment or whatever word you choose to use is not broken. In her mind she has gotten away with murder, murder of the marriage and she feels no crippling, debilitating agony over this? Do you seriously see this as contrition?

After all that has been written you now know that these are not friends. You now know that you are not in reconciliation. You now know that this will happen again without true remorse. You now know that your wife does not feel true remorse. Armed with this knowledge all that remains is for you to decide which path your life will take based on what you can accept and live with. You must decide for yourself and for your children and reap the consequences. It is up to you now.

Peace and long life
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post #143 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 11:47 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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@Cowboy2 Leave you marriage if that is what will work for you.

However, you should not leave your marriage because that is what worked for someone else.
You shouldn't stay in your marriage because it worked for someone else either. Just saying.
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post #144 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 03:22 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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I want to address this as it gives me something to think about in a new way. I would say during her A she was in a very strange place. She has had depression to varying levels for many years. She has taken anti-depressants for a few years now and it's made a big difference. She was incredible self-involved during this time. She doesn't see her best friend in a way that she promoted the affair. She sees her best friend as someone that will have her back (and the other way around) no matter what.

I would say my wife did not do the full on drop to her knees type remorse mode. She knows what she did was incredibly wrong and hurtful and has made and continues to make ongoing strong effort in rebuilding the marriage. She knows she destroyed trust on a deep level and that full trust will never be restored. It's not possible after the person you feel should be there for you through thick and thin gaslights you to your face in order to get another fix.
Having someone's back doesn't mean supporting their actions if they conflict with your moral code, having someone's back means looking out for their best interests, guiding and advising. Now if that advice means hurting someone else, then they are toxic by nature. For example ; if her friend had advised her against the affair, but your wife did it anyway, and the friend kept her secret, while disapproving of her actions, I think that is forgivable.

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post #145 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 08:46 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Why does it matter if you saw he was a pos or not, you should not have been flirting or whatever you were doing with him that led up to the encounter (if I remember correctly he kind of forced your hand at that point)even if he was the greatest man alive. You are putting to much stock in him tricking you.

His wife doesn't know and you didn't tell her?

Does your husband know the burrito story?

Look I may be able to be around him too, not friends though. After I kicked his ass or at least tried to.

This just makes me sad
No, I'm mad at myself for not seeing what he was trying to do. I'm mad at myself for thinking he was a friend for so long. I'm mad at myself for being too weak to not fall into the smooth words and instead shutting it down before I made the biggest mistake of my life. But that anger extends to him being a pos because he also took our "friendship" and the fact that I trusted him as a friend and pushing something else.

I say he deserves to be knocked out because he's a serial cheat who does whatever he wants and gets away with it because his wife won't leave him. Please understand I think I'm a pos too. It takes two.

My husband doesn't know the burrito story. He doesn't want to discuss what happened anymore. Which worries me. He's trying to sweep it under the rug like it didn't happen. But the only thing I know to do is keep telling him that if he has anymore questions I will answer them. If he wants anymore from me, I'll tell him. But the times I've tried to bring it up, he's gotten angry and told me to let it go.

No, his wife doesn't know. I have wanted to tell her, and I've told my husband as much. He doesn't want me exposed. She would expose.
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post #146 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Cowboy:

I suggest you go read this whole thread. A bit lengthy but well worth the read.

successful rugsweep?

If you're unable to convince your wife how to do what she needs to do to heal you, this is your future.
Thanks for this. I've started reading it and will work my way through as I find time.

One of the biggest pain points for me is the way I was emotionally manipulated during this. Just a few weeks ago she made a comment about how our marriage was in a crappy place back the. And that's what she told me them. But it wasn't any different than the majority of our marriage. That's just one example and there are many.

A large part is who emotionally manipulates the person they share their life with to that degree and do I want to grow old with that person?
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post #147 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 09:33 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

My marriage was in a crappy place when I did what I did too. But that's not an EXCUSE. If the marriage was in a crappy place, she could have left. Just as I could have left.

When you're hurting the answer is not to hurt someone else in return. The answer is to either a) remove yourself from the hurtful situation b) commit to making the hurtful situation better.

If she is still saying that to you, she does not fully understand her actions. She is still placing the blame on you.

I fully believe that the reconciliations that work are the ones where both parties own their sh*t and the ways they contributed to a poor marriage and try to change those ways. Having said that, anything you did did not contribute to the affair - though it's easy as a wayward to say those things did. The only thing the betrayeds bad points contributed to were the unhappiness of the other spouse, but not the affair.

My husband is a distant, non affectionate man. He ignored me a lot, never really compliments me, chose his friends over me, always put his needs first. Had a 10 year ea with his ex girlfriend. Those things all contributed to my unhappiness. But they didn't contribute to my ons. I should have left or given him an ultimatum that things had to change or I WOULD leave. Instead, I CHOSE to screw around with his best friend to make myself feel better in the moment. THAT part is on me.

Going forward, the only choice I have is to try to be a better woman and hope that he continues trying to be a better man. And if either one of us is not holding up our end of the deal, then we walk, we don't cheat.
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post #148 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 10:02 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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I say he deserves to be knocked out because he's a serial cheat who does whatever he wants and gets away with it because his wife won't leave him. Please understand I think I'm a pos too. It takes two.
LH, you're one of the very few cheaters I have respect for, and I have a lot of respect for you. What you did was terrible, but you are not a pos. I truly mean that. You would be a pos if you were laughing at your husband behind his back today. You would be a pos if you were gaslighting him and keeping secrets from him when he was asking you for answers.

We all make mistakes, but what ultimately defines our character is what we do to correct it.

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My husband doesn't know the burrito story. He doesn't want to discuss what happened anymore. Which worries me. He's trying to sweep it under the rug like it didn't happen. But the only thing I know to do is keep telling him that if he has anymore questions I will answer them. If he wants anymore from me, I'll tell him. But the times I've tried to bring it up, he's gotten angry and told me to let it go.

No, his wife doesn't know. I have wanted to tell her, and I've told my husband as much. He doesn't want me exposed. She would expose.
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I don't know that you should go out of your way to force him to hear the burrito story. But dang, it sure triggers me having been in that kind of situation. I'm sure there is much I don't know still, and am thought of as the idiot in the corner by many who do know.

Although for me at this point it doesn't matter, as we are divorcing.

Still, you have offered to tell your husband more, and you have tried to tell him more. He has made it clear he doesn't want to know. Since he doesn't want to know, I think you would be doing the right thing to not spring it on him.

As long as those people are no longer within either of your circles. If they are, they have to be cut out. From my perspective, I don't care what people think if I have no relationship with them.

You can kick yourself for what you did, but be sure to give yourself full credit for the positive things you've done, too.

Last edited by Thor; 07-10-2016 at 03:02 PM.
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post #149 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 10:23 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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My marriage was in a crappy place when I did what I did too. But that's not an EXCUSE. If the marriage was in a crappy place, she could have left. Just as I could have left.

When you're hurting the answer is not to hurt someone else in return. The answer is to either a) remove yourself from the hurtful situation b) commit to making the hurtful situation better.

If she is still saying that to you, she does not fully understand her actions. She is still placing the blame on you.

I fully believe that the reconciliations that work are the ones where both parties own their sh*t and the ways they contributed to a poor marriage and try to change those ways. Having said that, anything you did did not contribute to the affair - though it's easy as a wayward to say those things did. The only thing the betrayeds bad points contributed to were the unhappiness of the other spouse, but not the affair.

My husband is a distant, non affectionate man. He ignored me a lot, never really compliments me, chose his friends over me, always put his needs first. Had a 10 year ea with his ex girlfriend. Those things all contributed to my unhappiness. But they didn't contribute to my ons. I should have left or given him an ultimatum that things had to change or I WOULD leave. Instead, I CHOSE to screw around with his best friend to make myself feel better in the moment. THAT part is on me.

Going forward, the only choice I have is to try to be a better woman and hope that he continues trying to be a better man. And if either one of us is not holding up our end of the deal, then we walk, we don't cheat.
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Seems like your ONS was revenge for his lack of caring about your feelings and his commitment to you being cherished?

Have you addressed those anger issues with a counselor?

Also, your husband may be incapable of hearing and processing all of that without a melt down.

If you don't want a man who is not able to talk with you, I think you owe it to yourselves to discuss this with a psychologist and attempt to make some changes. The only change that might bring you some satisfaction could be divorce.

Of course, he just might not give a crap any more. That seems very hurtful and distant. It seems like punishment.

These are the issues with reconciliation. Many don't make it, but still go through hell, both BS and WS.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #150 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Seems like your ONS was revenge for his lack of caring about your feelings and his commitment to you being cherished?

Have you addressed those anger issues with a counselor?

Also, your husband may be incapable of hearing and processing all of that without a melt down.

If you don't want a man who is not able to talk with you, I think you owe it to yourselves to discuss this with a psychologist and attempt to make some changes. The only change that might bring you some satisfaction could be divorce.

Of course, he just might not give a crap any more. That seems very hurtful and distant. It seems like punishment.

These are the issues with reconciliation. Many don't make it, but still go through hell, both BS and WS.
I wouldn't say it was revenge because it was not planned. I never had it in my head that since I was - what some people call - neglected that I would cheat on him to get back at him.

It was more of getting caught up in the moment. I had realized that his distance, his lack of affection, etc had been wearing on me. That I needed it badly. What I didn't realize until I was in the moment was how badly I'd craved affection, compliments, etc. So when OM started handing them out, I was eating it up like candy. In that moment, all that mattered to me was feeling attractive, worthy, desirable, worth something. It was like it was a drug and I just kept going back for another hit. I didn't think about anything else but those good feelings I felt I went without for too long.

That does not make it my husbands fault. Truth is Id said to him for a long time I needed them and he didn't provide them. I'm still telling him I need them and he's providing about 30% of what I need. My husband has never told me I'm beautiful. He rarely grabs me and just hugs me. He's gone back to not cuddling with me at night. We had a party last night and I may as well have not even been here. But on the other hand, he's finally given up the ex gf, were communicating better, he will do things for me like wash my car, I mentioned wanting moonshine and he got it for me, etc. But the affection and admiration I've always craved still isn't there. I don't know if the changes he's making or I'm making will be enough to keep us together. Only time will tell.

He refuses marriage counseling.
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