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post #106 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 03:15 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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The reason I am posting today is because we are having a 4th of July gathering at our house. A husband, his wife, and their son are coming over. The husband was one of my wife's confidants during the affair. This guy never comes across my radar in day to day life. My wife used to work with him and is friends still with him as well as his wife. I know he thinks I don't like him because of the fact he was my wife's confidant during he affair and he's right. I don't like him. In years past from my wife I got the "it's not that he wanted me to be with the other guy it's that he wanted what's best for me, what makes me happy". And of course the reason for this was my wife painted me as the monster bad guy at home to justify her actions. This guy and his family have been in my house a few times in the last few years and I just ignore him. I caught communication between this guy and my wife that showed he was a big cheering section for her and advised her to go be with this other man. So yeah, I don't like him.

We also do things from time to time with my wife's best friend and her husband. Her best friend helped her a lot during the affair as in helped her communicate with the other man, etc. Again my wife portrayed me as the bad guy which as we all know the wandering spouse is good at doing in order to justify their behavior and get others in their court.
She still has as a confidants a guy that told her that it was OK to have an affair if it makes her happy, and still has as a best friend a person that says the same thing and even helped facilitate the affair. Neither is a friend of the marriage, and were in fact supports of her affair partner. This makes them your enemy. A loyal spouse should not keep as confidants and best friends enemies of their spouse and their marriage, end of story. Additionally, by doing this she still has in place a support structure for having another affair. This is outrageous.

Tell them and your wife that you consider them to be your enemy and an enemy of your marriage, and thus must be completely out of your wife's life for you to be willing to continue working on the marriage. That having such people still in your wife's life giving her advice makes full reconciliation with your wife impossible for you. That if they had advised her to either work on the marriage or end the marriage if that would make her happy, you would have been OK with that, but they instead told her that it was OK to lie and cheat on you, and this is not OK with you.

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post #107 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 04:57 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Sounds like time to have a serious discussion.

Have her call her "friends" and report the truth.

Also have her call the male friends wife. (with you on both calls)

How old are the kids? Is it time to see an attorney? I think that was years ago, but has she told the wife of the OM?
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post #108 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 07:04 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Cowboy,

Correct me if I am wrong, but from reading your posts, you still don't seem to have a definite idea if the affair was physical or not. Did your WW ever give a confession?

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post #109 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Cowboy,

Correct me if I am wrong, but from reading your posts, you still don't seem to have a definite idea if the affair was physical or not. Did your WW ever give a confession?

Tamat
The short answer is no, I didn't find the smoking gun that made it definitively physical. I would be surprised if it wasn't. At a minimum it was deeply emotional which would lead one to assume it was physical.

I never got a full confession, bits and pieces over time.

My original post about the "friend" over for 4th of July and the responses have made me realize I've been not as in R as I had thought. I've done a lot of thinking this week and have some decisions to make.
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post #110 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 07:10 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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The short answer is no, I didn't find the smoking gun that made it definitively physical. I would be surprised if it wasn't. At a minimum it was deeply emotional which would lead one to assume it was physical.



I never got a full confession, bits and pieces over time.



My original post about the "friend" over for 4th of July and the responses have made me realize I've been not as in R as I had thought. I've done a lot of thinking this week and have some decisions to make.


It takes times

Just remember that the greatest lies that we tell are those to ourselves.

You likely are in a self-imposed false reconciliation. If you want true reconciliation you need to start from a bedrock of honesty. Period. Basically this includes a full written timeline of the affair which would then be corroborated by a poly (which at this point is your only option)

I have been coaching folks at this stuff for a long, long time. This is the bare minimum that you'd need to move ahead in a healthy manner. The sooner that you accept this the sooner you can start the real work.

It sounds like you don't have a problem being decisive. That's good.


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post #111 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 07:42 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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The short answer is no, I didn't find the smoking gun that made it definitively physical. I would be surprised if it wasn't. At a minimum it was deeply emotional which would lead one to assume it was physical.

I never got a full confession, bits and pieces over time.

My original post about the "friend" over for 4th of July and the responses have made me realize I've been not as in R as I had thought. I've done a lot of thinking this week and have some decisions to make.
If you were indeed in R then your W would have gladly, on her own, get rid of anything that had to do with the A. Including her friends who enabled her. Especially them.

And, of course, a timeline and confession.

If, you were in R.

“The time's gone by for sentiment and all that foolery. Mercy's all very well but after all it's justice that clinches the bargain.”


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post #112 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 08:01 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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She certainly seems like a talk show personality, though she is a doctor of psychology. There was plenty of arguing there about whether or not it was possible and some said it was possible to be happy and have an affair. I do not think it is possible to be happily married and have an affair.
Oh, I don't know. After all, my wife managed it.

Or do we mean "apparently happy?"

Because that might be very different from "really happy" wouldn't it?
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post #113 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 09:20 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

This thread sums up nicely why I would turn and walk away after an affair, not a second thought, no looking back.. Not a woman alive that would be worth this.

"Let's never stop having sex. We're so good at it, we OWE it to sex to never stop having it."
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post #114 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 09:21 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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If you want true reconciliation you need to start from a bedrock of honesty. Period. Basically this includes a full written timeline of the affair which would then be corroborated by a poly (which at this point is your only option)
I call this "capitulation", and we don't see it very often. By that I mean the betrayer fully surrenders to the betrayed. An analogy which is close is that of the addict who hits total rock bottom. They've lost absolutely everything and nearly died, too. Only at this point are they capable and willing to release themselves of their attachment to their former belief system.

The cheater has to realize that they have lost everything. They've lost their marriage, their home, their family, their lifestyle, their secret life, their circle of friends, the respect of their parents and siblings, and their social status in the community. Now they are willing to put their future in the hands of the betrayed. If they love and desire the betrayed in a selfless way, they are willing to do anything to prove their love and devotion including walking away if that is what the betrayed decides.

Capitulation. Total surrender.

Without it the marriage may survive but it will still suffer constant poisoning from the unresolved issues within the betrayer. There will never be true R even if the marriage survives.

With capitulation there can be an entirely new relationship within the marriage. This is true R.

That's where your bedrock of honesty comes to play. The betrayer has to not only agree to total honesty but has to desire it for the benefit of the betrayed, even if it leads ultimately to divorce.
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post #115 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 11:39 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

It took me years to fully grok the enormity of my ex-wife's actions and her deplorable deceptions.

But once I did, I moved swiftly to divorce her and excise her vileness from my life.

You have to realize that the women you think you love is really not the woman you are married to. That woman does not exist. The real her cheats on you and keeps socially involved with her enablers.

Plus, she is still not fully honest with you.

And you want to stay with her because?

IMHO, time to trully grow a pair and divorce her. don't be so needy. You deserve better.


Last edited by michzz; 07-08-2016 at 12:05 PM.
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post #116 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 01:12 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
I call this "capitulation", and we don't see it very often. By that I mean the betrayer fully surrenders to the betrayed. An analogy which is close is that of the addict who hits total rock bottom. They've lost absolutely everything and nearly died, too. Only at this point are they capable and willing to release themselves of their attachment to their former belief system.

The cheater has to realize that they have lost everything. They've lost their marriage, their home, their family, their lifestyle, their secret life, their circle of friends, the respect of their parents and siblings, and their social status in the community. Now they are willing to put their future in the hands of the betrayed. If they love and desire the betrayed in a selfless way, they are willing to do anything to prove their love and devotion including walking away if that is what the betrayed decides.

Capitulation. Total surrender.

Without it the marriage may survive but it will still suffer constant poisoning from the unresolved issues within the betrayer. There will never be true R even if the marriage survives.

With capitulation there can be an entirely new relationship within the marriage. This is true R.

That's where your bedrock of honesty comes to play. The betrayer has to not only agree to total honesty but has to desire it for the benefit of the betrayed, even if it leads ultimately to divorce.
This X1000!

Cowboy, I am a FWW. ONS with my husbands best friend and then I lied about it for close to three years and told him it was just a kiss, Aren’t I a gem? Given those circumstances, take this for what you will.

I am into the 5month of reconciliation with my husband. This sh*t ain’t easy. If your wife has not given you all of the details of her affair – with a timeline if you require one – you are NOT in true reconciliation. I told my husband the entire story of what happened. I looked my husband in the face and told him I gave his best friend a BJ. I looked him straight in the face and told him WHY I did it. Because I have boundary issues. Because I got caught up in feeling important to this guy and that my anger at my husband for making me feel insignificant made me not give two craps if I hurt him. I looked him straight in the face and told him I was a selfish, delusional c*nt who didn’t give a sh*t about anyone but ME in that moment. Cowboy, I’d give my very LIFE if I could take that moment back. I’d take a bullet for him if I could go back in time and re-do that night. I’d give my life to give him access inside my head so that he can really FEEL how I feel about what I did, how sorry I am, how much I wish I just would’ve been a better person all around.

But I can’t do any of that. But what I could do was give him his life back. I started the process to buy a new house. I told him that he would not have to pay me child support for 1 full year until he could get some things with the house paid off, get ahead on some bills, downsize the cars, etc. I didn’t fight him for my home. I did not ask for alimony. As much as it killed me – I cried every single day for 99 straight days, I told him that I would leave, that I would let him go, but that I would wait…..as long as it took until he told me it was useless to wait anymore.

I did not tell my own best friend what happened until I came clean to my husband. I told her the same lie I told him – that I just kissed him. When I told her……..she yelled at me. She asked me why I had done what I did. She told me I’d been a sh*tty wife and that he had every right to kick me out. But she also told me she loved my husband and that she hoped he’d change his mind. She offered to talk to him about infidelity and how to work on things to make them right (her husband had an affair). She asked me what *I* was going to do to make it right. MY BEST FRIEND HELD ME ACCOUNTABLE. That’s what true friends of your marriage do!

So here we are 5 months into reconciliation and we have no friends. Know why? Because my POS AP told all of our mutual friends what happened and not a one of them told my husband. Not only did I betray him, they did too. Is it lonely? Do I get sad sometimes? Sure. Do I occasionally see a picture on facebook of my old group of friends and long for the days that things were “normal”? Absolutely. BUT, in order to keep those friends, I would be betraying our marriage. They are not friends of our marriage. They were toxic scum that helped contribute to our downfall by supporting my AP and NOT my husband! NONE of them held me or AP accountable. It just “wasn’t their business” or “that’s between them” while they all continued to lie in my husbands face and support the AP. It’s more than just the betrayal of the spouse. It’s been the betrayal of all of the people who you trust to have you and your spouses back. To support your marriage and your life, to hold your feet to the fire when you screw up. Those are toxic people. To you, to your wife and to your marriage.

If your wife is not willing to say f*ck them all……she’s not sorry, she has no remorse and you better get out quick. Before she does it again.

I'll get through this, one day at a time.
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post #117 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 01:39 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

If this other couple were in fact helping her have the affair, I wouldn't welcome them in my house anymore. I tell you wife that you are going to take a hard stand against what she did and those who helped her and condoned her actions. I would also tell this guy's wife that he was an enabler. I honestly wouldn't care what other people think about whether you should or should tell her. Enabling an affair, in my mind it practically as bad as having one yourself.

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post #118 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 01:57 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Oh, I don't know. After all, my wife managed it.

Or do we mean "apparently happy?"

Because that might be very different from "really happy" wouldn't it?
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You'd have to watch the video to confirm that. I believe it was meant as really happily married.

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post #119 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 02:14 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

on the male friend guy--

he obviously was trying to get a piece of your wife. why else would he be an emotional tampon for her?

also-- the very fact that your wife has male friends that are not either (1) related to you or (2) your own friends first is an issue.

there is no reason for an honest married woman to be making male friends.
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post #120 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 05:56 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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on the male friend guy--

he obviously was trying to get a piece of your wife. why else would he be an emotional tampon for her?

also-- the very fact that your wife has male friends that are not either (1) related to you or (2) your own friends first is an issue.

there is no reason for an honest married woman to be making male friends.
I have to respectfully disagree with that sentiment.
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