Affair Helpers and CoHorts - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #121 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
I call this "capitulation", and we don't see it very often. By that I mean the betrayer fully surrenders to the betrayed. An analogy which is close is that of the addict who hits total rock bottom. They've lost absolutely everything and nearly died, too. Only at this point are they capable and willing to release themselves of their attachment to their former belief system.

The cheater has to realize that they have lost everything. They've lost their marriage, their home, their family, their lifestyle, their secret life, their circle of friends, the respect of their parents and siblings, and their social status in the community. Now they are willing to put their future in the hands of the betrayed. If they love and desire the betrayed in a selfless way, they are willing to do anything to prove their love and devotion including walking away if that is what the betrayed decides.

Capitulation. Total surrender.

Without it the marriage may survive but it will still suffer constant poisoning from the unresolved issues within the betrayer. There will never be true R even if the marriage survives.

With capitulation there can be an entirely new relationship within the marriage. This is true R.

That's where your bedrock of honesty comes to play. The betrayer has to not only agree to total honesty but has to desire it for the benefit of the betrayed, even if it leads ultimately to divorce.
This is very very good. The way I feel now is akin to the marriage may survive but will still suffer constant poisoning from the unresolved issues within the betrayer.

It's gotta be open and exposed and healed, one way or another.

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post #122 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 07:44 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Originally Posted by LosingHim View Post
This X1000!

MY BEST FRIEND HELD ME ACCOUNTABLE. That’s what true friends of your marriage do!

BUT, in order to keep those friends, I would be betraying our marriage. They are not friends of our marriage. They were toxic scum that helped contribute to our downfall by supporting my AP and NOT my husband! NONE of them held me or AP accountable. It just “wasn’t their business” or “that’s between them” while they all continued to lie in my husbands face and support the AP. It’s more than just the betrayal of the spouse. It’s been the betrayal of all of the people who you trust to have you and your spouses back. To support your marriage and your life, to hold your feet to the fire when you screw up. Those are toxic people. To you, to your wife and to your marriage.

If your wife is not willing to say f*ck them all……she’s not sorry, she has no remorse and you better get out quick. Before she does it again.
Yep

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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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post #123 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 08:14 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Cowboy,

Another impression I get from your writings, is that your WW has not changed the behaviors which lead to her affair in the first place. This has left you in an insecure place and I would guess every time she leaves the house without you or picks up her phone thoughts of the affair flash into your mind.

She still feels it is OK to have males in her life for emotional support.

Have her take a polygraph test.

Alternately you can tell the OM your WW has told you everything, and you would like him to verify what your WW told you. Tell him the undiluted truth will make this go away.

Tamat
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post #124 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Cowboy,

Another impression I get from your writings, is that your WW has not changed the behaviors which lead to her affair in the first place. This has left you in an insecure place and I would guess every time she leaves the house without you or picks up her phone thoughts of the affair flash into your mind.

She still feels it is OK to have males in her life for emotional support.

Have her take a polygraph test.

Alternately you can tell the OM your WW has told you everything, and you would like him to verify what your WW told you. Tell him the undiluted truth will make this go away.

Tamat
I'm not insecure at all. I don't care that much, that probably speaks to my level of investment in the marriage anymore.

I only get an emotional trigger every once in a while. We watched an episode of Black Mirror about cheating like 6-8 months ago. Watching the wife gaslight her husband and deny everything her husband asked until he showed her evidence piece by piece through multiple conversation was like whoa, been there, felt that surreal feeling.
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post #125 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 10:14 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Cowboy2

I have a few questions to ask, and if you oblige and answer them, feel free to pm the answers if you wish.

1) do you know the OM?
2) is the OM friends with the best friend or former male coworker?
3) are you sure this affair is over?
4) if OM is friends with the two affair enablers, is your wife still conversing through them with OM?
5) if she worked with OM, do they still work together?

To be direct and honest cowboy, I believe these two friends remain in her life as a connection to OM. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I would stay vigilant at the least.
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post #126 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Cowboy2

I have a few questions to ask, and if you oblige and answer them, feel free to pm the answers if you wish.

1) do you know the OM?
2) is the OM friends with the best friend or former male coworker?
3) are you sure this affair is over?
4) if OM is friends with the two affair enablers, is your wife still conversing through them with OM?
5) if she worked with OM, do they still work together?

To be direct and honest cowboy, I believe these two friends remain in her life as a connection to OM. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I would stay vigilant at the least.
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We can PM if you'd prefer, I've no issue answering here.

1. I know who he is and have spoken with him on the phone but don't know him personally. My wife knew him from HS and just after, 18-19 years old range.

2. OM is friends with my wife's best friend, they used to communicate through the best friend after the 2nd or 3rd time I caught on. The former male coworker doesn't know OM at all.

3. I'm fairly certain they've no contact for 2-3 years, since the end of 2013. The last time they were communicating thru my wife's work email so I don't know for sure.

4. This would only be relevant thru her best friend. I don't think so but don't know for sure. Any things possible.

5. Wife & OM never worked together. Wife does work with male friend who supported her affair once per month for 4 hours.

Best friend still could be the conduit but I don't believe so.
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post #127 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 11:47 AM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Originally Posted by Cowboy2 View Post
We can PM if you'd prefer, I've no issue answering here.

1. I know who he is and have spoken with him on the phone but don't know him personally. My wife knew him from HS and just after, 18-19 years old range.

2. OM is friends with my wife's best friend, they used to communicate through the best friend after the 2nd or 3rd time I caught on. The former male coworker doesn't know OM at all.

3. I'm fairly certain they've no contact for 2-3 years, since the end of 2013. The last time they were communicating thru my wife's work email so I don't know for sure.

4. This would only be relevant thru her best friend. I don't think so but don't know for sure. Any things possible.

5. Wife & OM never worked together. Wife does work with male friend who supported her affair once per month for 4 hours.

Best friend still could be the conduit but I don't believe so.
Neither are friends of the marriage and must go. The co-worker is likely angling to be the next in line with your wife after the OM is out of the picture for good.
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post #128 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 12:47 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Cowboy, I've pmd you some details but what I left out (not intentionally, I've just been through my story here and I forget not everyone knows) is that we became "friends" with my OM and his wife again about a year after I told my husband it was just a kiss. We remained friends with them after that for about 2 years.

I came clean the first week of October. As recently as early September, OM was at my house hanging out with a group of friends that he had told the whole story too. (I was unaware at the time they knew).

We were sitting by the pool and one of the friends wives was eating a chipotle burrito that was huge. One of the guys said something along the lines of "sheesh, she takes it like a champ, like she's giving head and can't wait to grab the balls". My OM said "I know someone who does that" and made a funny face, all the guys started laughing. My husband was off in the pool with the kids so he didn't hear it. At the time, I didn't realize what he was saying a) because I never grabbed his balls b) because the whole thing lasted less than a minute c) I had been drinking and it kind of went over my head

Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face.

I hate that it took me so long to realize how toxic my friends were. You can bet they've talked and joked about it.
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post #129 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 12:51 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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I'm not insecure at all. I don't care that much, that probably speaks to my level of investment in the marriage anymore.

I only get an emotional trigger every once in a while. We watched an episode of Black Mirror about cheating like 6-8 months ago. Watching the wife gaslight her husband and deny everything her husband asked until he showed her evidence piece by piece through multiple conversation was like whoa, been there, felt that surreal feeling.
So it sounds like you stopped your emotional triggers by killing most of the emotional investment in your wife and marriage. This is the life you want to live? You may end up one of those years later guys who finally snaps out of it and wants a better life. It would be a shame to waste years though.

There are many woman out there who you can be whole heartily fully invested in. And they didn't lie to you and F someone else. Yes I said F, that's want is was don't couch it.

Last edited by sokillme; 07-09-2016 at 12:57 PM.
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post #130 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 12:53 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Cowboy, I've pmd you some details but what I left out (not intentionally, I've just been through my story here and I forget not everyone knows) is that we became "friends" with my OM and his wife again about a year after I told my husband it was just a kiss. We remained friends with them after that for about 2 years.

I came clean the first week of October. As recently as early September, OM was at my house hanging out with a group of friends that he had told the whole story too. (I was unaware at the time they knew).

We were sitting by the pool and one of the friends wives was eating a chipotle burrito that was huge. One of the guys said something along the lines of "sheesh, she takes it like a champ, like she's giving head and can't wait to grab the balls". My OM said "I know someone who does that" and made a funny face, all the guys started laughing. My husband was off in the pool with the kids so he didn't hear it. At the time, I didn't realize what he was saying a) because I never grabbed his balls b) because the whole thing lasted less than a minute c) I had been drinking and it kind of went over my head

Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face.

I hate that it took me so long to realize how toxic my friends were. You can bet they've talked and joked about it.
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Has you husband gone and punched that assh_le. I would have. No warning just bam. So you were a notch on his trophy belt. Nice. You should go punch him. Or sue him for emotional distress.

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post #131 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 12:54 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

Maybe I missed it, but how exactly were these people able to support the affair? I understood it to be an EA that was perpetuated via email. Never went physical, supposedly. They worked at different places. Was she telling these folks that she was involved with another guy and keeping them abreast of their communications?

Still, you have posted the emails. You have claimed that you really don't have a lot invested in the marriage. I am not sure why you stay? I don't mean leave because she is a cheater and that'll show her. Instead, I mean that at the end of the day, the result of everything that has happened is that this marriage is not worth keeping.

I often say that marriage and divorce are not rewards or punishments. They are results. Infidelity, abuse, and a whole lot of things also produce results. It seems that if you don't care, and don't have a lot invested in the marriage, a new result needs to be reached.
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post #132 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 12:59 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Maybe I missed it, but how exactly were these people able to support the affair? I understood it to be an EA that was perpetuated via email. Never went physical, supposedly. They worked at different places. Was she telling these folks that she was involved with another guy and keeping them abreast of their communications?

Still, you have posted the emails. You have claimed that you really don't have a lot invested in the marriage. I am not sure why you stay? I don't mean leave because she is a cheater and that'll show her. Instead, I mean that at the end of the day, the result of everything that has happened is that this marriage is not worth keeping.

I often say that marriage and divorce are not rewards or punishments. They are results. Infidelity, abuse, and a whole lot of things also produce results. It seems that if you don't care, and don't have a lot invested in the marriage, a new result needs to be reached.
The word is consequences.
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post #133 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 02:30 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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Has you husband gone and punched that assh_le. I would have. No warning just bam. So you were a notch on his trophy belt. Nice. You should go punch him. Or sue him for emotional distress.
He has not. I honestly wish he would. Id like to. He still thinks my husband and him are friends. He still texts him and invites him places. Said he's done a good enough job of showing he's still a good friend and can be trusted again.

But yet when I told him I had come clean to my husband, he asked me why and still hasn't told his wife the whole story.

He's a pos in the first degree. Yay me for being the scum that couldn't see it when I needed to.
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post #134 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:06 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

And, the main reason for those pos to go after a married woman is:

"Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face."

--------------------------------------------------------------


In my simple mind, it's your responsibility to do "whatever", not your husband's job to go punch him out. Though, if he is that stupid to keep those folks as friends, he may not be worth keeping.

And there is the perspective from those who won't say what they are thinking.

This wasn't meant to stir trouble, but honestly to provide C2 with some outside perspective...and maybe you too, LH? Sounds like you both have some major issues to work through still.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #135 of 511 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 04:53 PM
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Re: Affair Helpers and CoHorts

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He has not. I honestly wish he would. Id like to. He still thinks my husband and him are friends. He still texts him and invites him places. Said he's done a good enough job of showing he's still a good friend and can be trusted again.

But yet when I told him I had come clean to my husband, he asked me why and still hasn't told his wife the whole story.

He's a pos in the first degree. Yay me for being the scum that couldn't see it when I needed to.
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Why does it matter if you saw he was a pos or not, you should not have been flirting or whatever you were doing with him that led up to the encounter (if I remember correctly he kind of forced your hand at that point)even if he was the greatest man alive. You are putting to much stock in him tricking you.

His wife doesn't know and you didn't tell her?

Does your husband know the burrito story?

Look I may be able to be around him too, not friends though. After I kicked his ass or at least tried to.

This just makes me sad
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