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I cannot believe I just read this....

11K views 80 replies 29 participants last post by  john117 
#1 ·
#56 ·
Ah yes but that would involve in taking responsibility for a decision that they had already made. Far easier to ignore that problem and jump to a better deal when it becomes available, no need to worry about past bad decisions, just claim that this one isn't even cheating, it's just a "good decision" to "get out of the abuse".

Very few people can accept the responsibility of a bad decision and take the hit themselves, far easier to lie to themselves for one more day, than to act.
 
#5 ·
The author is primarily a corporate consultant who's agenda is to create an efficient work environment. In his mind a man with commitment outside of work is not an efficient worker. Similarly, his definition of "psychologically healthy marriage" does not include pesky little distractions like children and growing old together. Unfortunately, many MCs attend conferences where they are bombarded with this kind of nonsense making them less effective as marriage therapists.
 
#12 ·
Ok, notwithstanding the wrath ya'll will feel about me, my observation is this cat is essentially correct in pointing out the some things in environment that causes the genesis and nurturing of an affair.
Folks can talk about, "that has nothing to do with it. They cheated because they are a cheater", but I think an independent observer, and the person(s) saying it if they put their ego aside, can quickly spot the dynamics in a marriage that is the impetus that often leads to cheating.
I want to add that I don't think affairs lead to a sense of long term well being, but, like it or not, in some cases it does provide the cheater with a bridge to recapture their sense of self worth. Lets face it, a good part of your life and expense is getting pretty so hopefully the oppose sex is attracted to you. When your spouse is not confirming your desirability, a good percentage of folks will turn to others to get that confirmation. And that's worth more than the pleasure you get out of the sexual aspect of the affair.
 
#13 ·
That's why these so called experts many times do more harm than good.

This shrink stuff is just a subjective science, not quantitive or measure able. Tell ten of them the exact same story and you'll get 5 different recommendations and opinions.

And the range is beyond belief.

If you have read any of this Dr. Harley guys articles, and he is considered an EXPERT, his advice to BH upon discovery is to play total Mr. Nice Guy for six months, compliment your WW on how she looks as she goes out with her boyfriends and kiss her ass trying to win her back. How many think that iOS great advice or could do it.

Not Just Friends takes a 180 degree different approach.

That's why so much money is wasted on this MC crap way too soon in most situations.

Just my opinion. I know others will differ
 
#16 ·
If you have read any of this Dr. Harley guys articles, and he is considered an EXPERT, his advice to BH upon discovery is to play total Mr. Nice Guy for six months, compliment your WW on how she looks as she goes out with her boyfriends and kiss her ass trying to win her back. How many think that iOS great advice or could do it.
Being Mr. Nice Guy is anti-challenge and a turn off for women anyway. That's like a someone saying the best way to stop smoking one pack of cigarettes a day is to start smoking two packs.
When it comes to advice on women, a general rule is to reject any advice that doesn't make you appear to be a bad boy. History proves most women, if they are attracted to men at all, are attracted to the bad boy.
 
#21 ·
I have no problem with the scenario's that end with divorce. None at all. Once discovered, infidelity will taint everything in the marriage. Most men will never, ever really forgive and many will see their wife as a cheating **** as long as they stay together. Not every minute of every day, but when something triggers him he will look at her with pure contempt. So, when H or W decide to divorce after the "awakening" of an affair that is a happy ending in my book - as long as they never tell BS about their cheating. Also, if your spouse is way sick and unable to even communicate with you I think finding a FB is a great idea - as long as you fulfill your obligation to continue to care for your spouse.
 
#22 ·
Most men will never, ever really forgive and many will see their wife as a cheating **** as long as they stay together. Not every minute of every day, but when something triggers him he will look at her with pure contempt.
My observation has been that many, if not most, men will not divorce their wives for infidelity. Excuses run the gambit from the damage supposedly done to kids, to finances, to whatever. Some would try to leapfrog over the Grand Canyon for their wives to give up the lover and reconcile. A woman married to a man for any length of time know when the risk is low that an affair will actually cost her marriage. I'd venture to say that in most cases its the WW that actually walks away from the marriage leaving the distraught husband with his hat in his hand.
 
#24 ·
Oh and LaBier is a dumb*ss.

If it makes you feel better, it must be good and worth it.....who cares what damage and pain it might inflict on others (BS, OBS, kids, family, etc).

I wonder if he approves of the moronic teens and young men who boost their pathetic feelings of superiority and self-worth by running around attacking and beating homeless people.

If it makes them feel better about themselves it must be worth it right?
 
#26 ·
Why I get am not a MC.

@striaghtshooter to some degree you are giving MB a bum rap. First he has aiways said if his wife comminted adultery he would divorce. His Plan Aand Plan requires the BS to do some tough things (that never get done - so failure is high). Have you read this Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums. How many posters here think it is a good idea to expose to a FOUR YEAR OLD CHILD ????? Personally I think not only is exposured a must to kill the adultery to save a marriage, it is a must to DIVORCE. The WS HS already brought the OM/OW into the marriage. Fyck me if they get say in my divorce. In my case his wife knew but I went after his friends, his AA group, his cycle club, etc. Why, he was getting his jollies getting into my marriage, no way he was going to play the big shot in my divorce.

On another note it drives me insane when I hear MC who only want to talk about issues in the marriage. Of course there are issues in the marriage that need to be addressed. But they cannot be addressed until the adultery is addressed. Why can't they see that. Basic first aid: the person is not breathing and is bleeding heavy. Yea you need to get them breathing. But while you are doing that the patient bleeds to death. How can the BS fix issue and all they feel is the effect of adultery.

Finally I make an effort to use the term adultery, not affair or cheating. An affair - young love. Cheating - at cards. Adultery is a cold judgemental word that fits what occurred. It speaks to the devastation to the entire family. It speaks to denying the BS the affection that is life, not what makes it worth living. It speaks to sleeping in a cold bed. It speaks to being alone and isolated. It speaks to a trauma that leaves a life time of issues. It speaks to who the WS is and only the WS. They and the other person made the choice to do so. @Doykemm is right in his refusal to date anyone involved with adultery. And those who help then hide the adultery, they are not much better than those who protected a pedophile and let a child continue to be harmed.

Redemption, yes I do believe in it. I also know there is a hell of a lot more fools gold in the world then the real thing. I have known a handful of people who have earned it. But even decades later they are still owning it.
 
#27 ·
Vald there are two types of nice people: those who are strong, those who are weak.

A strong person is kind because they want to be. They expect nothing in return. The kindness is purely a reflection of who they are.

A weak person is kind out of fear. They hope their kindness forces others to be kind to them. They whine when kindness is not returned. They use it as a weapon to force others to do what they want.

Another example: being honest when there is no chance of getting caught. The strong do so for themselves. The weak do it and tell others as a means of getting respect.

I am honest because that is who I am. My ex wanted people to know when she was.
 
#31 · (Edited)
A strong person is kind because they want to be. They expect nothing in return. The kindness is purely a reflection of who they are.
At the risk of sounding like its self-hype, I like to think Im this type. I can honestly say I expect nothing in return. Moreover I expect the persons I'm dealing with, and especially the girl I'm married, to be the same. I looked for those qualities before I married her. (probably the reason I can count my friends on one hand including my wife as a friend.
I can also be brutal and uncaring to someone who crosses me. My personality is such that finances and status that's frequently mentioned as a reason the reconcile, could never be enough. Nor could I love someone who betrayed my unless my overt actions pushed them over the line. Accordingly, I have little patients with these guys who say, "I was a good husband and she said she said her love died, left me for another guy but I love her and want her back"
 
#29 ·
Quality you do a disservice by not mentioning non-appalachin groups not to include them. The worst are liberals. In 1977 I worked as a dishwasher in a kosher style camp in upstate NY. If I had a nickle for every die in the wool long island democrat who whispered "I use to be....until I ad to go to school with them Bill Gates would eat his heart out.

Reminds me of the joke of about a fighter. During the first round he got his head handed to him. His manager kept telling him how great he was doing, that the other guy had not touched him. Round two it is even worse. Again the manger tells him hr is winning, that the guy hadn't touch him at all. As round three starts the fighter tells the manage "hey keep your eye on the referee.". The manager says "sure, why"? The fighter says "well someone out there is beating the crap out of me"!!!!

MB reminds me of a group my parents where involved in while I was in my late teens named "encounters". I glanced though the lit and what stuck me was how often this program was not for troubled marriages, but for healthy one's. It was designed to strengths healthy marriages. A lot of MB can be viewed in that light.

Personally as Dr H says plan A and plan is only for those who refuse to let go and divorce. Hopeful if a person uses this plan it will help then say "hey I tried everything, it's not my fault" when they do divorce. Pick 6 tickets are a better investement. For me I used her actions to make myself proud of myself for how I handed it. I have airways admired people how had a **** sandwich dealt them and held themselves together. Now that defines what an adult is.
 
#33 ·
I find it curious that no mention is made about honor, virtue, integrity and honesty. Once a vow is given is it not a breach of one's honor to break one's word? And this is good? Being a person of integrity is it not self destructive to lie? And this is good? Being an honest person is it not self destructive to practice deceit? And this is good? I can see no good in this at all unless you count only the self serving desire for pleasure. In fact, I see the behavior as inherently destructive for any person of character. Fascinating.
 
#36 ·
Bandit I would take those books with a large dose of salt. Swinging and open marriages are not common in US culture but exist and are widely discussed. For example Irish custom was a woman's dowery stayed with her in marriage. In reality the husband "managed" real property, cash and livestock without her input. The only thing she had real say in was house hold items and jewelry.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Definitely not a Christian counselor who adheres anywhere close to the intent and security of "marital vows!"

He's just some unconsciable charlatan who's out to sell some skewed logic in order to put a buck or two of some self-serving persons money into his own fat wallet!

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#49 ·
I was aware this was the time frame being discussed. Other interesting facts of that era was the role of clans in the legal system. Every person had a life value depending on occupation. Kings/bards/princes (in that order) where the highest value. If I as a Murphy killed or murdered a O'Brian all my family, cousins and clan would be held have to pay this debt to the victims family.

If I was disowned by my clan anyone could murder me, rob me, enslave me and no one would stand up to for me. I've read that often disowning meant being branded on the forehead so where every I went people would know I was without a clan.

I am merely saying do not make the exception the rule. An different example from the Jewish tradition. You are Jewish from your mother not father. If I am Jewish and my wife is not, my child would have to convert to Judaism. But if my wife was Jewish and I was not, even if the child never knew she was Jewish, would be considered Jewish. Does that mean Jewish culture promoted open marriages?
 
#53 ·
My brother is the exemplary bully kind of 'loving' husband.

Gross, indifferent to others needs, rude, closed for intimacy and real talking. But funny, and really providing.

Now his wife would maybe like a very different person to be married with but has rested in this being her married life. She is the victim and stays with him, because of her vows, sense of duty, the money, and simple because she has grown used to the situation.

Many betrayed husbands on TAM have had a revelation about themselves being a person like him.

Now would I condemn an affair if she had one? No. I only think it logical that someone would escape from this prison and look for freedom. One does if the advantages of leaving outnumber the advantages of staying.
 
#54 ·
My brother is the exemplary bully kind of 'loving' husband.

Gross, indifferent to others needs, rude, closed for intimacy and real talking. But funny, and really providing.

Now his wife would maybe like a very different person to be married with but has rested in this being her married life. She is the victim and stays with him, because of her vows, sense of duty, the money, and simple because she has grown used to the situation.

Many betrayed husbands on TAM have had a revelation about themselves being a person like him.

Now would I condemn an affair if she had one? No. I only think it logical that someone would escape from this prison and look for freedom. One does if the advantages of leaving outnumber the advantages of staying.
Would that involve any level of honesty and/or actually leaving her husband OR carrying on an affair in secret for months or years, all the while staying in the marital home and continuing to enjoy all the things that her husband provides?
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#55 ·
Women go for good looks, more often than anything else. That has real power over a woman.

You act like it doesn't matter so much if a guy is beautiful. And the word to describe a guy with a pretty face and good body is "beautiful". Beautiful is beautiful, sometimes it's female and sometimes it's male.

Yes, in some segments of our culture, at different times some Danny Trejo looking guy might get girls because he's a rough, mean jerk.

Most women don't find it attractive. Because it isn't.
 
#73 ·
Do people here realize that TAM represent as subsection of reality, and the culture here is biased against articles like above? The reality of the outside world consists of a lot of if-then constructions in personal judgement, and a lot of people (as displayed many times on TAM) judge very different if they happen to be the one infatuated with OM/OW. So some nuance would be welcome.
 
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