Then when she came back in and tried to get him he told her to "just leave mommy" and wouldn't go to her. She then said that she "hated" me. Then she said that she was just going to "move to Cleveland" to be with her loverboy because our son wouldn't miss her anyway.
Did she say this in front of your son?
If she did this. And she already has detachment issues with him (And she definitely does).
What else do you think your son has seen.. I so wish I could talk to your wife.
Your son has seen the the greatest focus of his love belittled, berated and betrayed by his mom. He watches everything. If she does not completely stop this now. He will end up hating her. FOREVER. I finally see what is happening here. Her love is so selfish that she thinks if your son loves you more. That some how there is less love for her. When any mother should look at that attachment as the greatest asset for the future success of her son. This needs to be explained to her. If not by you . Then by someone. She is doing irreparable harm to her son, and herself and their relationship. All your son sees is you trying to reach out to his mother and her verbally abusing and sometimes physically abusing you. She needs to understand this. and completely reverse how she treats you.
So this is all at 6am on Monday morning. I come home Monday night and she has dinner ready and is somewhat normal. I tried to talk to her and ask her what she really wanted. When I asked her if she wanted to move to Cleveland or leave us she could do that. Now she kicks into denial mode saying that she says these things out of frustration and hurt and would never leave our son. Just like I say things out of frustration, but when she says things I believe she is serious. I told her that she keeps saying she is going to leave us over and over again, so I have no choice but to believe that is what she wants to do.
Women don't work like that... when they say something it might be real to them at that moment, but it is seldom a statement for all time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclovin
THe other part is that when I have said things during this ordeal I have always..and I mean always apologized to her for them.
This is where you need to change your language. don't say things you don't mean for all time. Women expect to be able to change their minds. However, they expect men to be consistent!
In fact in this situation, what will probably really make her see you as valuable is if you can be consistently consistent every single day. Adopt a sensible position and stick to it. Be firm, be consistent. She is so chaotic right now, your calmness might reassure her.
What's probably going on is that she is sensing shifting sands and mixed messages from TOM - and that's without even throwing in her own feelings. If when she comes home, she finds you a rock of consistency, she will see you as an emotional resource. It will take time for her to see this, but you need to perfect it. In any case, it will do you good to be firm about what you want.
Spend some time working out what you want. Write bullet points. Look it over. See if you can live it. Re-write it, look it over again. When you have it right, live it.
Yes, she did say this in front of our son. I've read your other posts and it's interesting. She did ask me if I want a divorce because she thought the plan was to seperate, decompress for a month or so and then go to counseling together.
I guess that when I think about what she said it does seem that she has "decided to stay" in what she is saying. The only problem is that I don't trust a thing she says because she has betrayed my trust and lied to me so many times about talking to him and seeing him. Plus he is still on her facebook as a friend, so what does that mean.
Good points Twain and it makes sense. I just feel like I am inconsistent and what you are saying I can understand why she is just not sure what's going on. It's just hard to be consistent when she is all over the place. Again, I feel like I'm being punished for her being the bad person and doing all these horrible things.
It's like I have to do all the work and I don't really see she's doing anything.
Has she packed anything to move to the other house? Is she making any arrangements regarding her move at all? To me she is like a child at the controls of a machine. She is pushing every button, pulling every lever, to try and do what she wants. But she doesn't know what she wants.
Have you ever asked her how she thinks your son perceives the situation? He will gravitate to the one who is stable. It is natural for him to want to protect the one who is being hurt. I think your wife sees the two of you as a separate entity. She feels excluded. She wants in but she doesn't know how to get in. She can't understand how a baby she was pregnant with for nine months and gave birth to, someone she loves so very much can love someone more then her. She thinks that he only has so much love in him and you're getting it all. She doesn't understand that the more she verbally attacks you the more your son will gravitate towards you, to protect you. Your wife cannot understand the more she loves you, the more your son will love her. And one more thing. Your son is forming the idea of how a family is supposed to act towards each other. This will be his reference point for his future relationships.
Your son is forming the idea of how a family is supposed to act towards each other. This will be his reference point for his future relationships.
We are going to a marriage Counslor and he says that children pick up very fast on things like this and need not be pushed away from the emotion of it all. cause they will have attatchment issues later and that makes sense. your son needs stability. If you guys are going to fight dont involve him or do it around him and dont go behind shut doors and lock him away from you and everything. Its so hard to deal with that and your children SO SO SO hard. but be kind for his sake and if she is going to continue to act that way you and your son leave he doesnt need to be around that. He is your number 1 priority.
Yes, she did say this in front of our son. I've read your other posts and it's interesting. She did ask me if I want a divorce because she thought the plan was to seperate, decompress for a month or so and then go to counseling together.
I guess that when I think about what she said it does seem that she has "decided to stay" in what she is saying. The only problem is that I don't trust a thing she says because she has betrayed my trust and lied to me so many times about talking to him and seeing him. Plus he is still on her facebook as a friend, so what does that mean.
Last night was a stressful situation again. She hasn't done anything really to organize herself to move out. I don't have the key to the place yet, but will get it today or tomorrow.
The one thing she did do is contact Verizon to make sure she could transfer her cell phone out of my name and into hers. I came home last night and questioned her as to why this was such a priority. She said it's because when we are seperated that means we are seperated and because I changed my email address password why should I have access to her records. I told her, fine I'll give you my pword so you don't have the change verizon to your name. I also said that she hasn't given me access to her facebook account so why not give that as well.
She went into the whole barrage about me spying on her and having no privacy, knowing who she is contacting, etc. I told her there is only one person I'm concerned about her contacting and that TOM. Then she threatened divorce again. Luckily she went to work so it ended.
Since the incident with my son on Monday morning he has been strangely more clingy to my wife. I feel bad because I had to go to work and leave him so I wonder if he now resents me for it. He has been asking for her and saying he "loves mommy" a lot, which he hasn't done for months. I almost wonder if she is brainwashing him during the day or something.
I just feel like a horrible parent. I have tried not to argue in front of him and for the most part haven't. I just am so afraid that all of this has impacted him in some way. It just sucks. I should have just ended it and divorced her months ago and moved on. It's clear she doesn't want any part of our relationship and is just hanging on for the security.
You are probably right. I don't like seeing you give up on her. But she is soooooooo broken. Have her move. Have you separated you accounts yet? I know you don't have a lot of money. But the point is, that security cushion needs to be removed from her. She has no Idea. No concept of how tough it is out there for a single mother. Financially she will be 27% worse off after a year. You will be 10% better off. You need to start being unavailable emotionally to her. Discuss only finance and your son. As I have said before you may consider telling her once and only once. That the day she meets Tom is the day you file for divorce. You need to start preparing for fighting for custody. She said she would never leave her son. She didn't say she wouldn't take him. She is selfish so don't put it past her. I imagine if you get your key to the other house. You want her to start packing immediately. I suggest that you and your son go to your parents. And let her move herself over the weekend. You do not want to give her the power of seeing you breakdown. Remember after she leaves. To change the locks on the house. This is important to assert yourself. From now on, she will be a guest when she comes over. I believe if you are to have any chance with her you have to remove all emotional, financial, and physical support from her. Why? Because it may effect what she does if she sees you pulling away. Or, you will need to do it anyways for yourself, if there is to be no reconciliation.
This is the best list of dealing with a spouse in the fog I have seen
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Good list INIT. Another trying evening with my wife. I saw on our phone records that over the weekend she called TOM and had a 3 hour conversation with him. She had the flu during the weekend and my son and I went to my parents to give her quiet and rest.
I asked her about the call because she had told me before that she had "broke it off" with him. She said that she did and that the only reason she called him is because I left her alone all day on Saturday and Sunday and took or son to my parents. She had the flu and I gaurentee if I would have stayed my son would've wanted to see her or she would've been po'd about the noise.
When I asked her about how her calling him and talking to him for 3 hours is "breaking it off" she said that she has. She said that nothing can come of this relationship with him but he is all she has. She said she doesn't have the support structure that I do because her Mom doesn't care about what is going on and she can't talk to me.
Now in a few of my earlier posts on this string I mentioned how we had some good conversations last week. But now every day this week has been a struggle, culminating with me finding out about her call to him. She told me that my attitude and stance throughout this situation makes her hate me and she just can't stomach me anymore. She said that I haven't changed one bit and that all I've done is focus on her and not what I could change or what I did wrong.
I calmly told her that during my counseling sessions I have focused on what I did wrong to cause our relationship to go sour. I explained all the things that I thought were problems on my end. I told her that I take responsibility for those things and that I have tried to reach out to her to fix our situation but she has instead continued her other relationship. I asked her how she would act in my situation or how she would feel. She said she could understand, yet she still is hateful towards me.
We are seperating and I'm waiting on the key to the place she will be staying. She told me that she wants to write something up and have me sign it saying she is not abandoning our son that is due to a seperation. When I told her that I wouldn't sign anything until I had a lawyer look at it she became angry with me.
It's like a can't win. I give her space over the weekend and don't bother her and boom...she calls TOM. I try to talk to her and she gets angry. Yet she tells me that we should seperate and that after a month of decompressing from the situation we can decide if we want to go to counseling.
I just wonder her and loverboy were discussing for 3 hours. I asked her and she said it was none of my business. It's lke she gives hints at reconciliation like going to counseling, she also said about if we did go to counseling that she would give me access to her facebook an other stuff like email again. It's just confusing.
Does any of this make sense to anyone. Again..she makes me feel like I'm the problem and that I'm not trying or changing. I'm not perfect and have said and done things wrong during this, but I have tried, haven't i?
Hi mclovin, I hope that key comes soon. There is nothing more that can be done till she goes. You need to print out the list I posted. And you have to religiously observe it. You seem like you have a lot of self control. If anyone can apply the principles you can. These will make you stronger and more able to deal with the outcome what ever it may be. As I said she has to be on her own so that you are no longer the issue. She can talk all she wants to this Tom, but I am hoping that once she sees you pulling away. and not asking her any questions, not telling her you love her and working on your own happiness, I am sure you will see a difference. YOU HAVE TO BECOME AN EMOTIONAL VACUUM TO HER. Taking every thing in but not showing her anything but a confident happy Mclovin. Once you are no longer the reason for her unhappiness (which I don't believe you are anyways). She will have to own what is hers. And that's when the crisis comes. I want you to methodically go down the list and see what you have not been doing. Please, Please, Please, apply the principles known here as the 180.
Thanks INIT. I really appreciate your posts and help. I called my lawyer today and honestly after talking with folks, including her mother they all believe she has some severe mental issues. I'm going to see what my lawyer says and go from there. It may involve having her hospitilized for evaluation, but maybe in the end that may help her get through this, even if it means we don't stay together.
Re: Why? 
