Red flags in Marriage - time to end? - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Over the years my wife of 8 years has alwIays gone off on business trips alone. About 6 months ago she went on one and didn't answer the phone or call once, which is really odd because we have 2 kids - 4 and 2. I threw a fit about it, and she said she was staying with a co-worker in a hotel that was a stranger and felt awkward about it. I didn't buy it but dropped it. Later, in a social setting a different co-worker of hers let it be known that she was at the bar every night on that trip, yet that co-worker was not on the trip with her, and she isn't the type to make things up. I let it go, but have been watching closely. She stays after work 1 night a week to write her paper for school and on numerous occasions I have called her out on not doing her studies. I found receipts to ice cream shops and donut shops in the middle of the evening. She just completely downplays them. Last night was the final strawl. She had her login saved for find my iphone on her ipad and I looked it up, and found out she was at her old work instead of at the place she said she was writing her paper at. I sent her a text and she told me she was at a different place. When I questioned it, I think I just said "you're where" back in a reply she said "well I was there, now I'm here with an old co-worker. She met me at my school with another friend and now I brought her home. " i stopped replying. She came home in a fit of rage and accused me of checking her location. I lied and said I didn't. After all, she had no proof and was the culprit. She put our oldest child to bed and I didn't say much. She asked if I still wanted to be with her and I didn't answer and went to bed. She was up all night crying. This morning she said she could not stand the thought of not being with me for the rest of her life. I want to believe her, but also know that love is blind. I came here for an outside opinion.

Thanks for listening.

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post #2 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 04:16 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

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Originally Posted by mcgyver View Post
Over the years my wife of 8 years has alwIays gone off on business trips alone. About 6 months ago she went on one and didn't answer the phone or call once, which is really odd because we have 2 kids - 4 and 2. I threw a fit about it, and she said she was staying with a co-worker in a hotel that was a stranger and felt awkward about it. I didn't buy it but dropped it. Later, in a social setting a different co-worker of hers let it be known that she was at the bar every night on that trip, yet that co-worker was not on the trip with her, and she isn't the type to make things up. I let it go, but have been watching closely. She stays after work 1 night a week to write her paper for school and on numerous occasions I have called her out on not doing her studies. I found receipts to ice cream shops and donut shops in the middle of the evening. She just completely downplays them. Last night was the final strawl. She had her login saved for find my iphone on her ipad and I looked it up, and found out she was at her old work instead of at the place she said she was writing her paper at. I sent her a text and she told me she was at a different place. When I questioned it, I think I just said "you're where" back in a reply she said "well I was there, now I'm here with an old co-worker. She met me at my school with another friend and now I brought her home. " i stopped replying. She came home in a fit of rage and accused me of checking her location. I lied and said I didn't. After all, she had no proof and was the culprit. She put our oldest child to bed and I didn't say much. She asked if I still wanted to be with her and I didn't answer and went to bed. She was up all night crying. This morning she said she could not stand the thought of not being with me for the rest of her life. I want to believe her, but also know that love is blind. I came here for an outside opinion.

Thanks for listening.
Well, she's been lying about something, and she's feeling guilty about it.

You have two options before you...

1. "I know you've been seeing someone. Maybe even more than someone. There are simply too many inconsistencies in much of what you've been telling me. I want the truth, and I want it now."

If she wavers at all, stay on point -- you want the truth, and you want it now. At the same time, don't go into details regarding the inconsistencies. Make no mention of what doesn't add up. This will give her no opportunity to gaslight.

The problem w/ this approach is that, if she is cheating, she'll likely just lie about it.

That said, you know your wife. If you think you can get her to crack w/ a stone-faced semi-bluff, go for it. If it doesn't work though, and there is something going on, she'll just take it underground, making it even more difficult for you to detect.

2. Say nothing. Act as if all is normal and quietly begin monitoring her more closely. Check out @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread in the CWI forum for advice on how to go about doing that. Be sure to pay special attention to the "mouth shut, eyes open" mantra.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #3 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 04:32 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

I don't think its time to END it, but its for sure time to do some digging and find some sh!t out. Her behavior is for sure suspicious.

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.

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post #4 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:09 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

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Well, she's been lying about something, and she's feeling guilty about it.

100% correct.
Quote:

You have two options before you...

1. "I know you've been seeing someone. Maybe even more than someone. There are simply too many inconsistencies in much of what you've been telling me. I want the truth, and I want it now."

If she wavers at all, stay on point -- you want the truth, and you want it now. At the same time, don't go into details regarding the inconsistencies. Make no mention of what doesn't add up. This will give her no opportunity to gaslight.

The problem w/ this approach is that, if she is cheating, she'll likely just lie about it.

That said, you know your wife. If you think you can get her to crack w/ a stone-faced semi-bluff, go for it. If it doesn't work though, and there is something going on, she'll just take it underground, making it even more difficult for you to detect.
This isn't the specific approach that I extol, but it can meet some degree of success. One can make your option #1 more successful by objectively scrutinizing her response. The problem with confrontations is that individuals tend to be asking for the truth, rather than laying it out. If one is asking, then it is implied that there is room for an argument/debate.

There are other behaviors that need to be seriously addressed, as well. Fits of rage have no place in a healthy relationship. I say this to highlight the need for there to be serious consideration given by her. She can't just give a believable excuse and all is well.
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post #5 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

She obviously is not happy with the way things are and loves you and wants to be with you. But there is something strange going on. My husband knows where I am at all times, who I am with and exactly what I am doing. I know where he is at all times. It is a matter of respect. Transparency. Desire to always be loyal and faithful. You can have that too, but you need to let her know that is what you expect. You have lost trust. I am sorry about that, but it is a fact now and she needs to understand that once trust is lost, it has to be built back. Often that happens through great accountability and really good boundaries. (i.e.: She wants you to put a tracker on her phone so that you KNOW where she is. She calls you every time she is out and puts it on speaker so that the person she is with can say hi as well, she limits the "going out" for the time being to prove that you are more important than anything in her life).

Basically her actions need to back up her words and her commitment. Which i think is what you are struggling with now - they don't.

My husband and I talk alot about "hedges" around our marriage. These protect our marriage from things intentional and unintentional conscious and unconscious that may impact our relationship. He NEVER goes out with a woman alone. I NEVER go out with a man alone. It doesn't even matter how good of friends we are. it doesn't matter if the woman is his boss. He doesn't go and he is respected for it. When he is not home, I never let another man in the door. I will go out side and chat or talk, but never inside. We know each other's passwords on all devices - complete transparency. These are all hedges and they protect us and give us such a great trust and unity. I hope you can get to that point with your wife for the sake of you, her and the kids.
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post #6 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:22 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

I would not end it, until you have some concrete proof that she is cheating.

I would call her out of her lies, the lies she is telling would make me want to secretly investigate what is going on.



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post #7 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:30 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

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I would not end it, until you have some concrete proof that she is cheating.

I would call her out of her lies, the lies she is telling would make me want to secretly investigate what is going on.
Again, any mention of specific inconsistencies would accomplish little more than giving her a chance to lie and gaslight.

Stay on point!

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #8 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:47 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Here's the thread (previously mentioned) on how to find out what is actually going on:
Standard Evidence Post

Always remember the LD motto: "Sex isn't important!!!"
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post #9 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 05:48 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Put a tracker and a VAR in her car.

As for the business trips why does she go alone? What exactly does she do?

For the next trip can you hire a PI in the city she's going and track her?

I would end it just for the sheer agony she must be putting you through, it's no way to be in a marriage when you're paranoid about what the other person is doing.

Don't buy the tear either. She's boxed into a corner..why exactly would she say do you still want to be with me if she's just meeting up for donuts and ice creams? She knows you're onto her.
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post #10 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:12 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Your ages?

What's the basic story on the schooling for you both?

How often does she travel and what is the general context of the trips? Vegas conventions, new employee recruitment, visiting suppliers, visiting customers?

If you do confront her, record it. Your cell phone can be used for that function, or buy a good Sony voice-activate-recorder and have it in your pocket. The reason is so you can go back later. I always missed things when having confrontations or discussions with my stbxw. Then later, maybe an hour maybe a couple of days, the light would go on and I'd wonder what exactly she said. Did she say what I remember or was it slightly different? Practice so you know how to operate the recorder and ensure it makes no sounds, beeps, etc during use.

You may find minor inconsistencies. It is not certain those are proof of anything, because memories are quite fallible. If she says she went somewhere at 2:30 and you have gps proof it wasn't until 3:00 it isn't necessarily a lie. So when you record the conversation, pay attention to details but don't be hair trigger to convict her.

I would review all the financial statements and phone bills going back several years. Look for those oddball things. Also, carefully search for any hidden secret cell phones or other suspicious items (condoms, condom wrappers, hotel key cards, love notes, gifts, etc). Make sure you put everything back precisely as you found it. Her closet and all the clothing, bags, shoes, etc. Her dresser. Her car including every cubby and compartment, even the spare tire area.

I would VAR her car and keylog the family computer if she uses that.

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post #11 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:17 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Right now is the time to play dumb with her. Stfu. Do some investigation, get your ducks in a row. Never confront until you either have solid proof or you are ready to walk away anyhow. Cheaters always always play the same game. They deny and they gaslight until you prove to them you know for sure and have the solid proof. Then they only admit to what they think you already know. Always, every time. If you confront without hard evidence she will lie, deny, gaslight, and probably throw counter accusations back at you.

The more she realizes that you are suspicious, the more careful she will be. And that makes it harder for you to discover the truth. So for now you stfu and investigate. It only takes a few days up to maybe a couple of weeks to get the data you need.
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post #12 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:18 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee4Shine View Post
She obviously is not happy with the way things are and loves you and wants to be with you. But there is something strange going on. My husband knows where I am at all times, who I am with and exactly what I am doing. I know where he is at all times. It is a matter of respect. Transparency. Desire to always be loyal and faithful. You can have that too, but you need to let her know that is what you expect. You have lost trust. I am sorry about that, but it is a fact now and she needs to understand that once trust is lost, it has to be built back. Often that happens through great accountability and really good boundaries. (i.e.: She wants you to put a tracker on her phone so that you KNOW where she is. She calls you every time she is out and puts it on speaker so that the person she is with can say hi as well, she limits the "going out" for the time being to prove that you are more important than anything in her life).

Basically her actions need to back up her words and her commitment. Which i think is what you are struggling with now - they don't.

My husband and I talk alot about "hedges" around our marriage. These protect our marriage from things intentional and unintentional conscious and unconscious that may impact our relationship. He NEVER goes out with a woman alone. I NEVER go out with a man alone. It doesn't even matter how good of friends we are. it doesn't matter if the woman is his boss. He doesn't go and he is respected for it. When he is not home, I never let another man in the door. I will go out side and chat or talk, but never inside. We know each other's passwords on all devices - complete transparency. These are all hedges and they protect us and give us such a great trust and unity. I hope you can get to that point with your wife for the sake of you, her and the kids.
That's incredible that you and your husband have such boundaries to protect your marriage and foster trust and respect.
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post #13 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 06:24 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

@mcgyver, Welcome to TAM. Sorry you had to seek us out, but glad you found us.

I think that this thread of yours would fit better in the Coping With Infidelity section.

Would you like me to move it there for you?

http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk
http://mygeneralblog1.blogspot.co.uk...-cheaters.html (Be afraid UK cheaters! CheaterVille has come to the UK!
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post #14 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 07:58 PM
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

McGyver

Regardless of where your thread winds up, you have two distinct choices here. But before I tell you those you must understand that married women do not DISAPPEAR off the radar, refuse to answer their husbands texts, and them lie their asses off unless there is something going on. That something is what you are clueless about and what brought you here.

Now your two choices are
(1) accept and be intimidated by her indignation that she goes out alone and "ghosts" you as well as lies to you about what she is doing on business trips. You can put your head in the sand and HOPE what is right in front of you is a mirage. I suggest before taking this option you google "signs your wife is cheating". My bet is there are more that you have not revealed here.

(2) decide that you "gut" is churning for a valid reason and that mean you have no alternative but to snoop. And she has given you every reason to take this option.

Should you choose option 2, and I hope you do, you need a VAR in her car and a GPS on it ( since she already believes you are tracking her phone). My bet is if she has a boyfriend close to home you will know that in less than a few days. If she is cheating she is going to be talking to htis OM, and I'm guessing you do not have access to her electronics ( another red flag).

The more you question hear with what you have revealed in your post, the further underground and careful she will be.

But in the end you either stay in denial or you don't. I hope you pick the right option
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post #15 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Red flags in Marriage - time to end?

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Your ages?

What's the basic story on the schooling for you both?

How often does she travel and what is the general context of the trips? Vegas conventions, new employee recruitment, visiting suppliers, visiting customers?

If you do confront her, record it. Your cell phone can be used for that function, or buy a good Sony voice-activate-recorder and have it in your pocket. The reason is so you can go back later. I always missed things when having confrontations or discussions with my stbxw. Then later, maybe an hour maybe a couple of days, the light would go on and I'd wonder what exactly she said. Did she say what I remember or was it slightly different? Practice so you know how to operate the recorder and ensure it makes no sounds, beeps, etc during use.

You may find minor inconsistencies. It is not certain those are proof of anything, because memories are quite fallible. If she says she went somewhere at 2:30 and you have gps proof it wasn't until 3:00 it isn't necessarily a lie. So when you record the conversation, pay attention to details but don't be hair trigger to convict her.

I would review all the financial statements and phone bills going back several years. Look for those oddball things. Also, carefully search for any hidden secret cell phones or other suspicious items (condoms, condom wrappers, hotel key cards, love notes, gifts, etc). Make sure you put everything back precisely as you found it. Her closet and all the clothing, bags, shoes, etc. Her dresser. Her car including every cubby and compartment, even the spare tire area.

I would VAR her car and keylog the family computer if she uses that.
I'm 34 and she's 32. She has a Master's Degree and writing for her PhD. I have an undergrad and working on graduate. We have good jobs, both from upper middle class families, etc. She's not a risk taker, that's why I'm so confused on her actions. She takes trips for conventions or classes. I've gone on some with her, she's gone on some with me. It's a perk of both of our jobs and has been going on for some time.

A few curve balls: She has a work phone and so do I, we don't share a phone account. We both have work computers only. Hard to spy when I don't know her NT password to get in... and I only know her phone information because one of our children's iPad's uses her itunes account. We have separate bank accounts although on both and cross account transfers capable. I moved large amounts of money out of a few accounts today into a savings account I can only get to. We dont have joint credit cards. She's not the neatest person in the world, so when I rummage I'm not to careful.. it may come back to bite me in the end. She has clinical ADHD and is medicated for it. I really don't have the proof here, just tired of feeling like I may be taken for a ride.

Thanks everyone for your replies. We're in limbo... as she knows I'm upset. I'm not talking much right now.
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