Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long) - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #76 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 08:43 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Monitoring her phone works best if she does not know your are monitoring or has monitoring software on it.
you would have to get her phone and secretly put the software on it without her knowing, otherwise you just drive it further underground.

insisting to your WW to put monitoring software on her phone is a waste of time.

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post #77 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 09:30 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

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Originally Posted by ABHale View Post
I will never understand this. She cheated tell her to leave. Why are you leaving? Tell the cheater to find her own place or move out of the master bedroom.

Good night, why is it always the bh that has to give everything up.
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Exactly. Moving out is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the OM should do. How can you sell a house you allow your estranged wife to live in? There's a real concern that
1: she would change the locks,
2: continue the affair now that she has no oversight and a place to commit adultery, and
3: without your intervention could even begin to endear the OM on the kids.

Kicking her out still allows her to do numbers 2 & 3. Better to let her stay in the guest room even after the papers have been served. In the meantime, protect your interests and ensure that this affair does not continue in your home or in your vehicle. You don't want this anywhere near your kids.
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post #78 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 09:45 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

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Originally Posted by m00nman View Post
Exactly. Moving out is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the OM should do. How can you sell a house you allow your estranged wife to live in?

OM means Other Man. I think you meant OP which means Original Poster.

Thus ... Moving out is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the OP should do.
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post #79 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 10:06 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

JayOwen,

There is on very very small advantage to living next door to the OM and that is when the OM moves another woman in your WW will get to see her and she will be emotionally crushed to the size of a grain of sand.

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post #80 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

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Originally Posted by syhoybenden View Post
OM means Other Man. I think you meant OP which means Original Poster.

Thus ... Moving out is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the OP should do.
You're right but if the OP moves out, the OM moves in.
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post #81 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Hey all,

Me again. It's been a hectic 24 hours, work hasn't noticed yet that I'm offline but it's starting to get to that danger zone, fortunately the weekend is coming and will buy me a day or two extra. Maybe by Monday I'll be able to put in enough to keep the alarm bells from tripping.

She's been out of town on a work trip for the past few days -- I think that has been helpful to my processing. I know what you're thinking -- her out of sight, unmonitored -- I'm thinking it too. But I've found that I no longer care what she's doing now. I've started calling it the Alien. My wife is gone, the Alien is here, and I find it hard to give a **** what that thing does now.

Which is not to say I'm not engaging in behaviors that everyone here would be happy about. I got the PM about the 180. The spirit of it makes sense to me, and I think it's what I'm trying to do with initiating the divorce and selling the house. But the finer details of it aren't my style. She and I are talking A LOT. Texting A LOT.

I think the threat of the divorce is knocking something loose. Yes, you'll shake your head, but I've been psychoanalyzing the **** out of her. It's what I need to do to get some control back, to figure out how the Alien came to exist. I'm usually the person who has everything figured out. And so much of this was just so ALIEN that I couldn't wrap my head around it. The vindictiveness, the desire to be caught. And I believe I now understand at least some small part of it, she's got a lot of childhood baggage (abuse) that she never revealed before. I won't go into details but a lot of life patterns that I never noticed before start to make sense now. She is incredibly intelligent, and she has taken the ****ing cake for repression of anger and trauma.

I can you hear you all now! "No!" "Don't listen!" "She's making excuses!"

She is. But I think it's truth as well. And you don't have to worry, it's not changing anything that I'm doing. I understand more of her now, and I also understand how very broken she is. I cannot fix it. Only she can fix it. Maybe. Very long odds, and only after years of painful work. And honestly, even if she does ... she made decisions that were so catastrophically harmful to me that I will never be able to put them behind me. I want to say something, though I feel disrespectful to the men and women of the armed services, but I am starting to worry I have mild PTSD.

I dumped all the alcohol last night, sleep is not great though. It's starting to show. I ****ed up this morning, barely got the big kid to school (they literally had to open the locked school door). But then I forgot the baby had his halloween parade at daycare, he was so heartbroken that I had to race home and get the costume. But it meant I missed my 9am appointment with the lawyer. They didn't have anything later this morning, so now I'm rescheduled for Wednesday morning. That's very frustrating to me, I want this process started now. I now feel like I'm stuck in limbo for another week. ****ing sucks.

More than anything I need information, I could probably find a lot online I guess. I need to know how quickly this can go, what my rights are. I just need to get the safety codified in a legal document.

I pulled the credit reports, there's no new accounts, and there's no weird changes on the accounts that she has access to. So that, at least, is okay.

There is so much **** going on in that woman, and I'll be trying to unpack in therapy. But the conclusion that I've come to:

She will almost definitely relapse.

She is addicted, not really even to him (though she is), but to self-destruction. I actually would PREFER that she relapse with him, because at least it would be the devil I know. It's going to hurt when it happens, but at least she'd not be out there going after some stranger or risk discovery at work (i.e. imperiling her career and the 50% of the income that our family needs). At least I would know about Fitness Bro, and would be able to control how she tries to hurt me.

But I've resigned myself to that fact thait's going to happen. And I've made peace with it. Because it's not my wife doing something to me. It's the Alien, and I'm not married to that creature (and soon won't be in the eyes of the law as well).

And yet. My wife is gone, but still here, and that's hard. I hear her in the words when she says to me when she says sorry and that she supports whatever I need to do. And I almost hope (I did last night).

And then, I wake up the next morning, and I remember. The Alien is still out there. I have no idea if that was my wife talking last night, or the Alien. That creature was so skillful in her deceit, and the lies.

And so I've concluded that it's always the Alien, and I am unwavering in my decision to end things. The kids and I actually had a great night last night, they were happy and giggling. I'm hoping that my growing peace is starting to be picked up on, maybe they're feeling a tiny bit like "Okay, whatever was weird seems to be passing". Probably not, but I'll take a tiny win when I can get it. They were laughing, that works for now.

ps -- to the questions of who is moving out. I'm not sure what's best right now. The kids, especially the baby, need their mother in the house. For now I do believe I can trust her with them. Of course, maybe it's just the next world-shattering revelation away. But I can't let everything be a crisis right now. I won't make any plans until I get the lawyer and the papers. Maybe we can sell this poisoned home and find side-by-side apartments somewhere. Then I could be out of the house but close by.

Anyway, brain is fogged. Progress is slow. But I think I'm moving forward.

Last edited by JayOwen; 04-13-2017 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Edited to remove personal/identifying details.
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post #82 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:53 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

@JayOwen, Google "post infidelity stress disorder".

Very similar to PTSD.
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Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #83 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 11:57 AM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
There is on one reddit right now about a guy who found his wife and friend joining a swingers group. I can't even, it must be a hoax. Has to be. How can people be so monstrous.
Maybe the Reddit post is a hoax, but if it can be imagined and written, it is reality. Remember, we have ~300 million people in this country.

That is a lot of interpersonal storied sagas.

With drugs being widespread and mental illness being common as corn fields, these things happen.

Hollywood and Soap Operas plant the seeds; most of these seeds are weed derived! Pun intended.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #84 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 12:02 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

First, PTSD is more common than not with people that go through infidelity. Find a counselor trained in PTSD and infidelity. There are new treatments that work very good usually.

For your own piece of mind, get the programs to recover deleted texts. By her having sex with you there is little little chance she was in love with him and wanted to leave her family. However, that's another can of worms. Cheating women I love with their AP usually cut off their husbands.

You should talk to his ex. How did she find out she was a drunk? For one thingliving with him may cause anyone including your wife if it comes to that turn to drinking. I would hire a PI to run a check on him incase he is ever around your kids. You already know he's immoral.
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post #85 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 12:06 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Btw, her background issues may be made up. Everything she says must be verified.

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post #86 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 12:11 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

You are doing great, Jay. But expect a roller coaster of emotions over the coming weeks. Tomorrow you might feel entirely differently from what you just expressed to us.

In any event, you need to not let these conflicting emotions get in the way of doing what's best for you and your children (whatever that might be) in the end.

I think the emotional side of you still wants to talk and text with her. But realize that every text you send is giving her a subtle "I forgive you" or "I can forgive you" message. Even if it ends up that you forgive her, there's no reason for her to feel that possibility that right now. She's looking for comfort, and you're providing it. You've provided her comfort--a safe landing--over the past 7+ years, and look where it got you.

You should also face the reality that she might still be texting the other man just as much as she's texting you, and even arranging their next rendez-vous. Yes, cheaters do crap like this.
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post #87 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 12:24 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Reality sucks but it is resl, glad you found it. Truama often results in bad copimg habits which maybe impossible to break. Truth is only she can break them and establish healthy ones. But, she did try to tell you about the CSA and that counts for a lot. Understand part of the reason she loves you and married you is based on this. You where the safe one. If you help her to heal for tat healed person you might not be a good fit for marriage.

My advise is to to accept this possibility, try to help her, yet accept that the marriage might be over.

Here are some random links for you.

Child Sex Abuse Affects Both Genders Long Term

http://www.counseling.org/docs/disas...e.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Breaking the Chains of Childhood Abuse - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates

The effect of childhood trauma on adult attachment styles, infidelity tendency, romantic jealousy and self-esteem

Keep in mind adultery is often a form of self-degradation or seeking redemption by "reforming" the abuser. The latter is hard to grasp but in that case the other person is viewed as the abuser and by getting them to change achieves a sense of validation for the abuser. Strange, weird I know but true.

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
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post #88 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 12:31 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

Sort of off topic, but buy yourself a big wall calendar and write down ALL of your appointments and that includes school stuff. You need to be able to see it each day to keep stuff straight. Don't rely solely on a tablet or phone.

Just a tip from another father. Now back to your marriage...

"You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!" Victor Von Frankenstein
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post #89 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

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Keep in mind adultery is often a form of self-degradation or seeking redemption by "reforming" the abuser. The latter is hard to grasp but in that case the other person is viewed as the abuser and by getting them to change achieves a sense of validation for the abuser. Strange, weird I know but true.
This hits VERY close to home. The crux of the issues she has described to me over the past few years was that she disliked how I spanked our kids. It's how I was raised, and it was never anything more than a spank on the bottom but I can make no excuses, it's not something I'm proud of now, and it's something I stopped awhile ago (1-2 years ago). I thought we had worked on it and solved it, I couldn't figure out why her anger and walled off feelings only seemed to be growing worse after I had worked on it.

She told me she had told her therapist about the spanking and she said that the way she described it had appalled her counselor. That was confusing to me -- spanking sounded horrific? So I asked her to describe what she said, and when she did I realized she was not describing me spanking our kids, but something that sounded awfully close to what it must have been to be beaten as a child, or watching her siblings be beaten (she tried to protect them and was unable -- and I now realize that our problems coincide almost exactly with when all this started, it opened some emotional can of worms maybe).

It was not until recently that I understood how severe the abuse was. I realize now when she said "please stop spanking" she was saying "this is killing me!". Except she never said that. Instead, all the anger that had never been unleashed on her parents (who she worships to this day) that she had been repressing for decades now had an outlet. It was being translated onto me.

I think she's very literally made me into her abuser because she's never let any of this go (tried therapy in the past but apparently it didn't stick).

And then she very literally punished the "abuser" -- me, now bearing the weight of the horrendous **** that happened to her as a child -- first by increasingly denying me any kind of support or affection, and then when that didn't prove to be punishment enough (i.e. I was still sticking around and trying to be good to her) she took it the most vicious level she could think of: ****ing the man next door, the meathead idiot opposite of me, the annoying neighbor I so frequently griped about, despite my express denial of permission, and in such a way that she she constantly risked being caught.

I know this is all navel-gazing, but it makes so much sense to me.

Last edited by JayOwen; 04-13-2017 at 10:43 PM. Reason: Edited to remove personal/identifying details
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post #90 of 241 (permalink) Old 10-28-2016, 01:29 PM
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Re: Here goes nothing... (sorry, very long)

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This hits VERY close to home. The crux of the issues she has described to me over the past few years was that she disliked how I spanked our kids. It's how I was raised, and it was never anything more than a spank on the bottom but I can make no excuses, it's not something I'm proud of now, and it's something I stopped awhile ago (1-2 years ago). I thought we had worked on it and solved it, I couldn't figure out why her anger and walled off feelings only seemed to be growing worse after I had worked on it.

She told me she had told her therapist about the spanking (again we're at AT LEAST a year since the last MILD spanking had stopped) and she said that the way she described it had appalled her counselor. I asked her to describe what she said, and when she did I realized she was not describing me spanking our son, but something that sounded awfully close to what it must have been to be beaten as a child, or watching her younger brother be beaten (she tried to protect him and was unable -- he's a recovering heroin addict today -- and I now realize that our problems coincide almost exactly with when our eldest son -- i.e. the stand-in for her baby brother -- first became old enough to get into trouble, i.e. scolding and spanking -- roughly 3 years ago).

It was not until recently that I understood how severe the abuse was. I realize now when she said "please stop spanking" she was saying "you're triggering my most severe trauma". Except she wasn't just doing that. All the anger that had never been unleashed on her parents (who she worships to this day) that she had been repressing for 40 years now had an outlet. It was being translated onto me.

I think she's very literally made me into her abuser because she's never let any of this go (never went to therapy).

And then she very literally punished the "abuser" -- me, now bearing the weight of the horrendous **** that happened to her as a child -- first by increasingly denying me any kind of support or affection, and then when that didn't prove to be punishment enough (i.e. I was still sticking around and trying to be good to her) she took it the most vicious level she could think of: ****ing the man next door, the meathead idiot opposite of me, the annoying neighbor I so frequently griped about, despite my express denial of permission, and in such a way that she she constantly risked being caught.

I know this is all navel-gazing, but it makes so much sense to me.
Damn. If that's not a deal breaker I don't know what is. Really, there's no coming back from that.

Also, I have to say, based on what I've read so far she doesn't seem all that broken up about your plan to leave her. A remorseful spouse would be going pretty far to prove her remorse. She's basically saying, do what you have to do and she's fine with it.
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